HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 10.20.202137cacafe-7b61-40d4-a2b7-44bd6c64705dElectronically signed by Karen M. Bellemare (301-293-169-3900)
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CONTRACTORS EXAMINING BOARD
Wednesday, October 20, 2021
TIME: 8:37
PLACE: Commission Chambers of the Roger Poitras Annex
2300 Virginia Avenue
Fort Pierce, FL 34982
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT:
James "Travis" Leonard (Vice-Chair)
Michael Pride
Chris Langel
Sheila McCarthy-Taylor
Tony Jerger
Michael DiFrancecco
Dennis Parker
COURT REPORTERS, INC.
108 North Depot Drive
Fort Pierce, FL 34950
info@court-reporters.com
772-464-2664
2 (Pages 2 to 5)
37cacafe-7b61-40d4-a2b7-44bd6c64705dElectronically signed by Karen M. Bellemare (301-293-169-3900)
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ---
3 MS. JOHNSON: Good morning, everyone.
4 Mr. Davis was excused.
5 Mr. Pride?
6 MR. PRIDE: Yes, ma'am.
7 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Langel?
8 MR. LANGEL: Yes, ma'am.
9 MS. JOHNSON: Mrs. Taylor?
10 MS. TAYLOR: Here.
11 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Leonard?
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: Yes, ma'am.
13 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Jerger?
14 MR. JERGER: Yes, ma'am.
15 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Zrallack was excused.
16 Mr. DiFrancesco?
17 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Yes, ma'am.
18 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Parker?
19 MR. PARKER: Yes, ma'am.
20 MR. VICE CHAIR: Fantastic. Thank you. Next
21 up we have approval of the minutes of both the July
22 21st and the special meeting on August 24th. I'd
23 like to make a comment to all staff. I think you
24 guys did an amazing job. There was a lot that went
25 into both of that. I read it. I don't know if
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1 anybody else had an opportunity to go through it.
2 Does anybody have any corrections or a vote to
3 approve?
4 MR. DiFRANCESCO: I'll make a motion to
5 approve.
6 MR. VICE CHAIR: We have a motion by
7 Mr. DiFrancesco.
8 MR. JERGER: I'll second it.
9 MR. VICE CHAIR: Second by Mr. Jerger. All in
10 favor?
11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: Any opposed?
13 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: Madam Secretary, will you
15 please swear in the staff members?
16 MS. JOHNSON: State your name for the record.
17 MS. WATERS: Alphanette Waters.
18 MR. HARVEY: Doug Harvey.
19 MS. WILLIAMS: Danielle Williams.
20 MR. CICIO: Mike Cicio.
21 MS. JOHNSON: Do you affirm to tell the truth,
22 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
23 STAFF MEMBERS: (Indicating in the
24 affirmative.)
25 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you, very much.
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1 At this moment in time, we hold the next part
2 for public comment. I see a couple people in the
3 audience. Would anybody like to come up and make
4 any comment?
5 AUDIENCE: (No response.)
6 MR. VICE CHAIR: Seeing everybody is still
7 sitting in their seats, I'll go ahead and close
8 this portion.
9 Up next we have applications to be approved.
10 The following applications are recommended for
11 approval by consent. Is this where they get to
12 call it into the roll or just go ahead and make
13 a --
14 MS. JOHNSON: Yes. You have to -- I have to
15 call it.
16 MR. VICE CHAIR: You have to call it,
17 Madam Secretary?
18 MS. JOHNSON: Yes, but we need a motion first.
19 MR. VICE CHAIR: We need a motion to -- does
20 anybody have any questions or anybody want to be
21 removed from this before we take a motion to accept
22 the approval by consent?
23 MR. PARKER: I did have one question on the
24 insulation contractor, why is it business
25 procedures when everybody else has business and
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1 law?
2 MS. JOHNSON: It depends on the testing
3 agency. That's what they call the test. One is
4 business and law. On PROV's, the test they
5 administer is business and law; and then on GITS,
6 it's business procedures. That's what they call
7 it.
8 MR. PARKER: All right.
9 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Parker. Thank
10 you, Madam Secretary for the -- I'll accept a
11 motion to approve.
12 MR. DiFRANCESCO: I make a motion to approve.
13 MR. PRIDE: Second.
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: We have a motion by
15 Mr. DiFrancesco, a second by Mr. Pride. All in
16 favor?
17 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
18 MR. VICE CHAIR: Any opposed?
19 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
20 MR. VICE CHAIR: Madam Secretary, would you
21 please call them into the record?
22 MS. JOHNSON: Craig Bisset, doing business as
23 Square Contracting, LLC, business contract --
24 building contractor, sorry.
25 Timothy Farris, Farris Metal Works, LLC, d/b/a
3 (Pages 6 to 9)
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1 Farris Fence Contractor, siding, window and door
2 contractor.
3 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you, very much. Up
4 next is applications recommended for approval by
5 reciprocity. Anybody have any questions on this?
6 BOARD MEMBERS: (Indicating in the negative.)
7 MR. VICE CHAIR: Do we need a vote on this or
8 do you just call --
9 MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
10 MR. VICE CHAIR: We need a vote on this as
11 well? Thank you.
12 Anybody have a motion to accept by approval by
13 reciprocity?
14 MR. PRIDE: Yeah, I'll make a motion to
15 approve.
16 MR. LANGEL: Second.
17 MR. VICE CHAIR: Motion by Mr. Pride, second
18 by Mr. Langel. Madam Secretary -- anybody -- all
19 in favor?
20 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
21 MR. VICE CHAIR: Any opposed?
22 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
23 MR. VICE CHAIR: Madam Secretary, please call
24 the roll.
25 MS. JOHNSON: Douglas Woolley, doing business
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1 as A to Z Services, LLC, marine contractor.
2 Robert Litzenberger, doing business as
3 Destin Sign Company, LLC, electrical sign
4 contractor.
5 James Southers, doing business as
6 Modern Marine Insulation, LLC, insulation
7 contractor.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you so much. Next we
9 have approved by administratively. I believe these
10 just need to be called into the record.
11 MS. JOHNSON: Yes. William Jablonski, doing
12 business as Windows (sic) Doctors, Inc., glass and
13 glazing contractor.
14 Wilbur Terry, doing business as Terry's
15 Screen & Shutters, Inc., aluminum without concrete
16 contractor.
17 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you so much. We have
18 applications that are recommended for review by the
19 Board coming up next. I believe everybody had them
20 in their packet. This is one of the great things
21 about this Board where we have an opportunity to go
22 ahead and review contractors coming into our
23 community.
24 It's unfortunate that some of the laws allow
25 other contractors to do business through
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1 reciprocity where we don't get to see them, and
2 unfortunately, that occurred last meeting where we
3 saw the fallout of that.
4 Did everybody have an opportunity to review in
5 their packet? Mr. Mercado and Mr. Taylor?
6 I believe Mr. Mercado is up first.
7 Is Mr. Mercado here?
8 MR. MERCADO: Yes.
9 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Mercado, do you want to
10 come up, be sworn in, introduce yourself?
11 Good morning. Do you have representation?
12 MS. MOSLEY: No. Yes, but no.
13 MR. VICE CHAIR: You look -- you look all
14 official that's why I --
15 MS. BARBIERI: She is an attorney, but she's
16 with Port St. Lucie.
17 MS. MOSLEY: I'm just waiting for him to be
18 sworn though and (inaudible) --
19 MS. JOHNSON: State your name and address for
20 the record.
21 MR. MERCADO: Jorge Mercado, 1652 SW
22 Schleicher Lane, Port St. Lucie.
23 MS. JOHNSON: Raise your right hand. Do you
24 affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
25 nothing but the truth?
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1 MR. MERCADO: Yes.
2 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you.
3 MS. MOSLEY: And good morning Members of the
4 Board. My name is Amber Mosley. I'm Deputy City
5 Attorney at the City of Port St. Lucie.
6 MR. VICE CHAIR: Good morning.
7 MS. MOSLEY: Good morning.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you for being here.
9 MS. MOSLEY: Absolutely.
10 MR. VICE CHAIR: So I've -- I've reviewed the
11 packet for Mr. Mercado, as I'm sure the rest of my
12 Board members have as well. Please, by all means.
13 MS. MOSLEY: I'm here at your pleasure to
14 answer any questions. I have in front of me what
15 the City sent over in the letter of reciprocity
16 that was filed by Mr. Mercado. After speaking with
17 Ms. Barbieri, I know there was some questions that
18 the Board might have had in reference to that. I'm
19 here to kind of clear up anything that was written
20 on there with the City and let the Board know that
21 originally back in August when he -- Mr. Mercado
22 filed for the letter of reciprocity for his
23 concrete license, there were some things going on
24 internally with the building department and
25 Mr. Mercado that was nothing of Mr. Mercado's
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1 doing. And at that time, there was some friction
2 between the two given some new interpretations of
3 what Mr. Mercado was doing, one of which, again,
4 Mr. Mercado didn't really have anything to do with.
5 It was something that we were dealing with in the
6 City.
7 Since then, we have sat down with Mr. Mercado
8 and his attorney. We've worked everything out. He
9 is in good standing with the City. He is not
10 working outside the scope of his license, and the
11 six jobs that were referenced on the letter of
12 reciprocity with no permits and no inspections,
13 there were actually permits and inspections done by
14 Mr. Mercado that when the City made a different
15 determination at the time of the scope of work that
16 he was doing, we actually null and voided those
17 permits. So until that point, they were properly
18 pulled and permitted. Again, since then, the City
19 has worked out its issues with Mr. Mercado and he
20 is in good standing with us.
21 And so I wanted to be able to be here in front
22 of the Board to answer any questions and let you
23 all know that certainly we are aware of Amore Pools
24 and what's been going on with that, and that's not
25 something that the City wanted in the forefront of
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1 your mind with Mr. Mercado, given what was on the
2 application that was submitted in August by us for
3 his concrete license to the Board.
4 MR. VICE CHAIR: No, I appreciate you being
5 here. That would be the only trepidation I would
6 have had. I appreciate you coming here from the
7 City of Port St. Lucie and representing and letting
8 us know that that's all cleared up. And I think
9 Mr. Mercado I believe holds five different
10 licenses, and as a Board here, doing work without a
11 license -- doing work without a permit as a
12 licensed contractor is heavily frowned upon in
13 St. Lucie County. I'm sure everybody up here on
14 this Board feels the exact same way I do on that,
15 and I appreciate you being here representing the
16 City of Port St. Lucie and making that right.
17 MS. MOSLEY: Absolutely. And again --
18 MR. VICE CHAIR: One of the nice parts about
19 this Board is that people come here for licensures.
20 We want people licensed in St. Lucie County. We
21 want people to be above reproach here, and I have
22 no other questions. Does any other Board member
23 have any questions for the attorney and/or
24 Mr. Mercado?
25 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Yes. I got a question.
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1 MS. MOSLEY: Sure.
2 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So I'm looking at the many
3 licenses that you hold here. Painting contractor,
4 was that -- was that a separate test from the
5 concrete and decorative specialist?
6 MR. MERCADO: Yeah. That's a different test.
7 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So you actually took -- but
8 you're here today just for the concrete?
9 MR. MERCADO: Yeah, I took the test for the
10 concrete and the business and law as well.
11 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Mercado, if you can just
12 come a little bit closer to the mic.
13 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Okay.
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you.
15 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So you don't intend to do
16 any painting?
17 MR. MERCADO: No.
18 MR. DiFRANCESCO: In other words, you don't
19 paint any houses?
20 MR. MERCADO: No, I don't -- I don't do
21 painting that much. I just -- I do painting in
22 Port St. Lucie but not that much. Probably five
23 percent of the time, but I don't do that much.
24 Everything that I do is concrete work.
25 MR. DiFRANCESCO: But you do hold a painting
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1 contractor's license in --
2 MR. MERCADO: I have it in case I have one of
3 the jobs that I do that calls for it, but not out
4 of the Port St. Lucie. Just in Port St. Lucie
5 because I don't have it in other place --
6 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Don't you think --
7 MR. MERCADO: -- but I don't -- I don't do
8 painting. Everything that I do is concrete.
9 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Okay. So you won't wander
10 into Fort Pierce and start doing -- in the County
11 and start doing painting?
12 MR. MERCADO: No, no. I just concentrate more
13 in what I do in concrete.
14 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Okay. I'm good. Thank you.
15 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr. Mercado.
16 Thank you, Mr. DiFrancesco.
17 Anybody else have any questions?
18 MR. DiFRANCESCO: I'd like to make a motion.
19 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. DiFrancesco?
20 MR. DiFRANCESCO: I'd like to make a motion to
21 allow Mr. Mercado to work in St. Lucie County and
22 be licensed.
23 MR. LANGEL: Second the motion.
24 MR. VICE CHAIR: We have a motion by
25 Mr. DiFrancesco and a second by Mr. Langel.
5 (Pages 14 to 17)
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1 Madam Secretary, will you call a roll, voice
2 vote?
3 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Pride?
4 MR. PRIDE: Yes, ma'am.
5 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Langel?
6 MR. LANGEL: Yes, ma'am.
7 MS. JOHNSON: Mrs. Taylor?
8 MS. TAYLOR: Yes, ma'am.
9 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Leonard?
10 MR. LEONARD: Yes, ma'am.
11 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Jerger?
12 MR. JERGER: Yes, ma'am.
13 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. DiFrancesco?
14 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Yes, ma'am.
15 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Parker?
16 MR. PARKER: Yes, ma'am.
17 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Mercado, congratulations.
18 Welcome to St. Lucie County.
19 MR. MERCADO: Thank you, very much.
20 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you.
21 MS. MOSLEY: And thank you members of the
22 Board. Very nice to meet you.
23 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you. Very nice to meet
24 you as well.
25 Well, Mrs. Barbieri, that made it very easy.
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1 MS. BARBIERI: Yes, Chairman, it did.
2 MR. VICE CHAIR: For a review on our second,
3 we have Mr. Taylor from RH Taylor Electrical
4 Services, electrical contractor.
5 Is Mr. Taylor here?
6 I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're
7 not Mr. Taylor.
8 UNKNOWN MALE: No.
9 MR. VICE CHAIR: So Mr. Taylor is not here.
10 MS. JOHNSON: He said he was coming.
11 MS. WILLIAMS: Since he's not here, I'm going
12 to go ahead and remove it from the agenda.
13 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thank you, Ms. Williams. I
14 appreciate that. That's a shame. Being that
15 Mr. Taylor is not here, we will move onto our
16 Waiver of Right of Hearing for Failure to Pay or
17 Appeal a Citation.
18 Mr. Cicio, good morning.
19 MR. CICIO: Good morning, sir. For the
20 record, I'm submitting a total of seven photos
21 taken on April 9, 2021 during an inspection at the
22 property address of 1166 Angle Road in Fort Pierce.
23 Upon inspection I identified Anthony S. Garrido,
24 business owner of ASG Carpentry, Inc., installing
25 exterior doors at this location.
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1 Research revealed that ASG Carpentry, Inc. is
2 not a licensed contractor in St. Lucie County
3 required by St. Lucie County Code. ASG Carpentry
4 is only licensed in Martin County as a limited
5 handyman. A $500 citation, Citation No. 219 for
6 unlicensed contracting was issued and served.
7 As of October 1, 2021, the citation remained
8 unpaid, so a Notice to Appear for the
9 October 20, 2021 Contractor Licensing Board was
10 sent via certified mail, which remained unclaimed.
11 The construction site address was posted on
12 October 5, 2021, and a voice message was left with
13 Mr. Garrido. I've had no contact with
14 Anthony Garrido, ASG Carpentry, Inc., since the day
15 of my site visit.
16 As of October 20, 2021, the citation remains
17 unpaid. Staff is recommending that a lien be
18 placed on the real or personal property of
19 Mr. Garrido, if the citation is not paid within 30
20 days.
21 MR. VICE CHAIR: Is Mr. Garrido here?
22 (No response.)
23 I do not see anybody getting up.
24 Does anybody have any questions of staff?
25 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
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1 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Cicio, thank you for
2 doing another great job. I appreciate that.
3 MR. CICIO: No problem.
4 MR. LANGEL: I'll make a motion to accept
5 staff recommendation.
6 MR. PARKER: I second.
7 MR. VICE CHAIR: We have a motion by
8 Mr. Langel. Second by Mr. Parker. All in favor?
9 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
10 MR. VICE CHAIR: Any opposed?
11 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Cicio, thank you again
13 for doing a great job.
14 MR. CICIO: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
15 MR. VICE CHAIR: Up next we have our
16 disciplinary case against Abe Shultz Construction,
17 LLC.
18 MS. WILLIAMS: Mr. Vice Chair and the Board,
19 that has been removed from the agenda.
20 MR. VICE CHAIR: I spent a lot of time reading
21 that, by the way.
22 Thank you, Ms. Williams.
23 Up next we have a request for reinstatement of
24 permitting privileges by Mr. Scott Barber.
25 Mr. Barber's license was revoked a year ago.
6 (Pages 18 to 21)
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1 I believe Mr. Barber is here.
2 Mr. Scott Barber, would you like to come up,
3 be sworn in?
4 MS. JOHNSON: State your name and address for
5 the record.
6 MR. BARBER: Scott Barber, 11950 Twin Creeks
7 Drive, Fort Pierce.
8 MS. JOHNSON: Do you affirm to tell the truth,
9 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
10 MR. BARBER: I do.
11 MS. JOHNSON: Okay.
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Barber, good morning.
13 MR. BARBER: Good morning. How we doing?
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: I'm shocked it's been a year.
15 MR. BARBER: It went quick.
16 MR. VICE CHAIR: It sure did. What have you
17 been doing for the last year?
18 MR. BARBER: Working my tail off.
19 MR. VICE CHAIR: Working your tail off.
20 MR. BARBER: Trying to save the reputation.
21 MR. VICE CHAIR: Fantastic. So you're working
22 your tail off without a license in
23 St. Lucie County?
24 MR. BARBER: No, I have a license. I have
25 licenses in other place.
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1 MR. VICE CHAIR: Okay.
2 MR. BARBER: I passed up several nice jobs in
3 St. Lucie County and learned some stiff lessons
4 here for sure and --
5 MR. VICE CHAIR: I have a question. Did you
6 make it right with that other homeowner?
7 MR. BARBER: We -- we went through a
8 mediation. We -- we -- she wanted everything for
9 free. I tried to give $10,000 in front of you in
10 cash. She -- she didn't accept it. So in her
11 mind, it's not right. In my mind, it's unsolved.
12 I don't know. It kind of -- they left it, after
13 the Better Business Bureau dispute, which was on
14 the phone, some kind of mediation, which wasn't
15 really a mediation. So it -- it really was left
16 unresolved --
17 MR. VICE CHAIR: Okay.
18 MR. BARBER: -- but I was willing to work with
19 the lady. I just wasn't willing to give labor,
20 materials and everything else for free and, you
21 know, a full refund, but --
22 MR. VICE CHAIR: So here's my challenge that
23 I'm having, is you were brought in here because of
24 that, and you no showed a couple of meetings --
25 MR. BARBER: I no showed one meeting.
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1 MR. VICE CHAIR: -- and I've seen you working
2 in St. Lucie County. I have a challenge.
3 MR. BARBER: You know, with re-screens and
4 what not.
5 MR. VICE CHAIR: Sure.
6 MR. BARBER: We haven't done anything
7 unpermitted, other than we replaced a gutter and --
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Doors, gutters, other things.
9 MR. BARBER: I ran into a discrepancy. That
10 was a --
11 MR. VICE CHAIR: Listen, I get it.
12 MR. BARBER: You don't have to pull permits
13 for --
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: Listen I get it. The last
15 thing I ever want is to have an unlicensed
16 contractor in St. Lucie County working where I've
17 got to make phone calls to attorneys and things.
18 We don't want that. And we don't ever want to see
19 you again.
20 MR. BARBER: I don't ever want to have to come
21 in here again. It's cost me a lot of money.
22 MR. VICE CHAIR: I'm sure it has.
23 MR. BARBER: And a loss of reputation.
24 Mr. DiFrancesco on our first appointment told
25 me to make a business decision. I made a lousy one
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1 as it turns out. So over the last year I've had to
2 turn down just in PGA Village $65,000 in pool
3 enclosures. You know, if you look me up online,
4 there's good reviews by the million until we come
5 to Mrs. Beers, and then, you know, I came in here
6 with an A plus rating and I left out with an F.
7 So it's cost me, you know, and I've -- and
8 I've gone on to do business, pull permits in the
9 other counties that I'm licensed in, and we've had
10 no complaints. Everything's been done in a timely
11 manner.
12 I've even built a pool enclosure for
13 Don Bishop, which was the key guy against
14 Amore Pools and he's thrilled in referring me. So
15 it's -- it's not that I'm lousy in all areas. I
16 would say I've made some mistakes and it's cost.
17 It's cost dearly, and it will for years.
18 MR. VICE CHAIR: And make no mistake, the last
19 thing this Board ever wants to do is take someone's
20 livelihood away in the County.
21 MR. BARBER: So -- and we're having a hard
22 enough time. I mean, fuel prices is through the
23 roof. Materials are tough to get. Things are
24 expensive. It's hard enough to make a living.
25 MR. VICE CHAIR: We're all contractors up
7 (Pages 22 to 25)
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1 here. We get it.
2 MR. BARBER: Believe me I know. We're all
3 suffering in this.
4 MR. VICE CHAIR: We're all in the same ocean,
5 just different boats.
6 MR. BARBER: Some of our budgets are bigger
7 than others, but it's a tough road to hoe right now
8 and I could use -- I could use St. Lucie County to
9 help pay the bills, that's for sure. And we'll do
10 it by the book. You know, I just -- I've learned
11 some tough lessons here. It's cost. I've had to
12 write checks every time I've come. Hopefully today
13 I don't have to write any other than to reinstate a
14 license but --
15 MR. VICE CHAIR: Oh, I'm sure you're going to
16 have to write something.
17 MR. BARBER: I'm sure I'm going to have to
18 pay.
19 MR. VICE CHAIR: I don't know what that exact
20 amount is, but I'm sure you're writing a check this
21 afternoon.
22 MR. BARBER: There's been expenses, and I'd
23 love to just to put it behind me and move forward,
24 you know. We have an office here in town and shop
25 and lettered trucks and stuff. We're trying to
Page 23
1 make it but --
2 MR. VICE CHAIR: I appreciate you being here.
3 Thank you, very much.
4 Does anybody else have any questions for
5 Mr. Scott Barber?
6 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
7 MR. VICE CHAIR: Tony, you look like you want
8 to say something.
9 MR. JERGER: Not this time.
10 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Mr. Chairman?
11 MR. VICE CHAIR: Yes, sir, Mr. DiFrancesco.
12 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Other than the fact that
13 Mrs. Beers didn't get settled, because that just
14 sticks with me, I got no problem reinstating
15 Scott Barber and his license. I just -- I really
16 wish you would have settled something with her. So
17 you're telling me she didn't take a dime --
18 MR. BARBER: I came to this first meeting with
19 ten grand in cash, which was more than reasonable,
20 and tried to -- and she -- and she wanted $15,500
21 cash, you know, and it was -- it was just
22 unattainable. For what we spent --
23 MR. VICE CHAIR: So hold on. Hold on. I got
24 to make a comment real quick. So you lost your
25 license for a year over $5,500 bucks. Think about
Page 24
1 that.
2 MR. BARBER: Believe me, when
3 Mr. DiFrancesco --
4 MR. VICE CHAIR: Think about that.
5 MR. BARBER: Believe me, I know, you know, but
6 that was being bullheaded in thinking --
7 MR. VICE CHAIR: That's the only comment I got
8 to make on that.
9 MR. BARBER: It was a bullheaded decision, a
10 lousy decision. Like I said, he -- you know, on
11 the first -- first meeting he said, "Make a
12 business decision." And I walked out of here and
13 made a business decision and it was the wrong one
14 and it cost dearly. Over -- over a few thousand
15 dollars, we lost let's say $100,000. It's just
16 probably more the number over -- over the last two
17 years and having a negative online presence, a loss
18 of license in St. Lucie County.
19 If you want to look into it, as a new customer
20 going into a new contract, you know, it doesn't
21 look good. So -- so it cost us dearly. It was a
22 lousy decision all the way around and we're going
23 to try not to make any more lousy decisions, that's
24 for sure.
25 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So you're saying in the
Page 25
1 mediation that you had with the Better Business
2 Bureau --
3 MR. BARBER: So --
4 MR. DiFRANCESCO: -- she just walked away?
5 MR. BARBER: -- it was an arbitration. No, I
6 didn't walk away. It was over the phone because of
7 COVID and over this.
8 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Right.
9 MR. BARBER: So we didn't have a -- like a
10 real meeting. It was over the phone. People were
11 talking over one another. It just -- it didn't go
12 well. At the end of it, I was just like I'm going
13 to stand with my statements that I submitted and --
14 and, you know, be it as it may, that's -- that's --
15 you know, the ruling was the ruling then. So --
16 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So you made the -- the
17 $10,000 agreement -- offer to her again or --
18 MR. BARBER: She would accept it.
19 MR. DiFRANCESCO: -- you just --
20 MR. BARBER: Yes, I did, and it wasn't accept
21 it. So I just left it.
22 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So she walked away.
23 MR. BARBER: She walked away, I walked away.
24 We left it.
25 MR. DiFRANCESCO: No lawsuits involved?
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1 MR. BARBER: No lawsuits. We never heard from
2 each other again so --
3 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Well --
4 MR. BARBER: I don't -- I don't know really.
5 You know, I didn't pursue it any further after that
6 and neither did they so I -- it's unfortunate all
7 the way around for everyone involved.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Yeah, it is.
9 MR. BARBER: It just really is so -- you know,
10 I -- I didn't want to tarnish my reputation. I
11 wanted to gain more projects in that community,
12 because I have a good reputation there in -- in the
13 beginning. She's on their Board so I doubt I do
14 now.
15 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Yeah.
16 MR. BARBER: You know, it goes on and on. It
17 was a revolving door of --
18 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Yeah, I build in there so I
19 know you pretty much done it.
20 MR. BARBER: And so it's --
21 MR. VICE CHAIR: And I live in there.
22 MR. BARBER: Right. So I just -- I don't want
23 -- you know, I don't want to ruin my -- my future
24 projects.
25 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Well, like you said, you
Page 27
1 made a bad decision.
2 MR. BARBER: I made a poor decision, exactly.
3 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Maybe next time you'll make
4 a better one.
5 MR. BARBER: Absolutely.
6 MR. VICE CHAIR: I pray there's not a next
7 time.
8 MR. DiFRANCESCO: I hope there's not a next
9 time.
10 MR. VICE CHAIR: Oh, there better not be a
11 next time.
12 MR. BARBER: No. Well, there will be a better
13 decision ahead of a next time situation where we
14 wouldn't have this situation.
15 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Please.
16 MR. BARBER: And we'll start off with a permit
17 to start with, and that's what -- that's really
18 what it was all about, is not turning in the
19 paperwork so --
20 MR. VICE CHAIR: So question for staff, do we
21 make a motion and a second and take a vote on
22 providing him his license or the license gets
23 reinstated -- first time me doing this.
24 MS. BARBIERI: Assistant County Attorney
25 Katherine Barbieri. Please have a motion.
Page 28
1 MR. VICE CHAIR: Okay.
2 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Mr. Secretary --
3 Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.
4 MR. VICE CHAIR: Oh, you're going to pay for
5 that one. You're going to pay for that one.
6 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So again, I'd like to go
7 ahead and make a motion to reinstate Scott Barber,
8 hoping the fact that we never see him again, except
9 on a job somewhere. I think he'll make better
10 decisions. I think he's had enough time off.
11 MR. PARKER: I'll second that motion.
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: We have a motion
13 by Mr. DiFrancesco, second with Mr. Parker.
14 Madam Secretary, could you please take a voice
15 vote, please?
16 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Pride?
17 MR. PRIDE: Yes, ma'am.
18 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Langel?
19 MR. LANGEL: Yes, ma'am.
20 MS. JOHNSON: Mrs. McCarthy-Taylor?
21 MS. TAYLOR: Yes, ma'am.
22 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Leonard?
23 MR. LEONARD: No, ma'am.
24 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Jerger?
25 MR. JERGER: Yes, ma'am.
Page 29
1 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. DiFrancesco?
2 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Yes, ma'am.
3 MS. JOHNSON: Mr. Parker?
4 MR. PARKER: Yes, ma'am.
5 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thanks for being here this
6 morning. I appreciate it.
7 MR. BARBER: I appreciate the judgment.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Thanks, buddy.
9 MR. BARBER: How do I go about -- I brought my
10 paperwork so we just need to send you insurance
11 from the insurance agent.
12 MS. JOHNSON: Yes, everything that's needed.
13 I'll call you.
14 MR. BARBER: Thank you.
15 MR. VICE CHAIR: And I'm sure write a check or
16 something. I have a question for staff. We have
17 people in the audience that -- is there something
18 I'm missing from on the -- on the agenda? Is
19 there --
20 MS. JOHNSON: No.
21 MR. VICE CHAIR: No? Okay.
22 MS. WILLIAMS: The facilities. Under new
23 business, the facilities department is here under
24 new business.
25 MR. VICE CHAIR: Oh, fantastic. And we have
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1 old business.
2 Did Mr. DiFrancesco make the news article as a
3 quote or -- we have old business for Amore Pools.
4 MS. BARBIERI: Mr. Chairman, Assistant County
5 Attorney Katherine Barbieri. I think the newspaper
6 article was just provided to you for your
7 information.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Okay. Fantastic.
9 MS. BARBIERI: Probably (inaudible), they
10 didn't. It was just provided for information.
11 MR. VICE CHAIR: And on to new business, the
12 facilities department is here to present, as they
13 waited patiently.
14 Good morning.
15 MS. JOHNSON: Good morning.
16 MR. RUTHERFORD: Danny Rutherford,
17 Facility's Director, for the record. We're here
18 this morning just really to open up and have a
19 conversation and provide a platform for maybe
20 questions or anything and to let you in on what --
21 what the facilities and purchasing group is working
22 on. The basis of conversation is really
23 self-performance of work for the County. We've
24 been working with the purchasing group to try to do
25 self-performance work, which means -- let's define
Page 31
1 self-performance. Which means our group of -- of,
2 you know, folks in our -- in our facilities group.
3 We have plumbers, electricians, you know, all those
4 folks. And some of the -- some of the project we
5 prefer to do on our own. And self-performance
6 could be anything from -- from a portion of, all of
7 or some of a job, whether it be flooring, painting,
8 air conditioning, right? So self-performance --
9 allowing us to do self-performance would mean maybe
10 we do the framing and we hire out all the rest of
11 the stuff by hiring contractors.
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: Uh-huh.
13 MR. RUTHERFORD: That's self-performance. Or
14 we may choose, if it's a smaller job, like maybe
15 you've seen coming down the hallway there, we do
16 that all by ourselves. That's a $2,000 job. We
17 take care of it.
18 So in doing some of this, we recognize with
19 the purchasing group that the purchasing manual has
20 never formally recognized state statute, which for
21 the record, if you'd like to -- I believe it's
22 255.20, which provides -- which provides for a
23 purchasing threshold or -- it says if you go over
24 $300,000, then you no longer -- then you need to
25 supp -- you need to make sure you go out to a -- to
Page 32
1 a sealed bid and let people bid on that work. But
2 anything under that threshold, you're allowed to
3 self-perform.
4 There's -- there's an actual elevator in that
5 -- since that code was written in 2000 -- at least
6 that number was provided in 2008 of $300,000,
7 there's an elevator in there that with a
8 calculation that we get from finance that says,
9 well, here's your number this year.
10 MR. VICE CHAIR: So to calculate for inflation
11 and so on and so forth.
12 MR. RUTHERFORD: Yes, sir. So, you know,
13 right now we're just north of $400,000 we could
14 self-perform. We don't really have the
15 capabilities of doing things that big, but the law
16 allows for it.
17 So this -- this will come soon on an agenda
18 for the B -- in front of the BOCC. So I really
19 just wanted to provide an opportunity to have the
20 conversation here before you guys or other
21 contractors see it and say, What are these guys
22 doing? They're trying to do all their own work.
23 It's nothing more than we have -- we have always
24 done. We've always done these -- these jobs, but
25 -- but the purchasing manual has never formally
Page 33
1 recognized the state statue.
2 And so in order to put it into our purchasing
3 manual and in order for us to be able to do that,
4 the Board thought it would be, you know, better for
5 our own purchasing manual to formally recognize the
6 state statute, and to make sure that it says --
7 that it just mimmicks what it says. So that's
8 going to be coming. So I wanted to have the
9 conversation now, if there was any questions with
10 you guys.
11 We've already met with Maddie over at the
12 TCBA. She was loaded full of lots of questions.
13 We answered all of those satisfactorily for her.
14 So that's really why we're here. We just wanted to
15 make sure that you guys were okay. We're not doing
16 anything we haven't always done. We're just going
17 to formalize it. It's going to come in the way of
18 -- of -- of a change to our -- an addition to our
19 purchasing manual, because it's never done before,
20 and that's really it. That's what we're trying to
21 do and we want to be transparent, up front, and
22 hopefully, head off any questions with you guys
23 before, you know, hit the BOCC meeting.
24 MR. VICE CHAIR: Makes sense. Anybody have
25 any questions?
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1 ^^: So -- so in your budget, whether it's
2 $400,000 or whatever it is, you all just pick out
3 jobs that you want to do per that?
4 MR. RUTHERFORD: So being -- so for some of
5 these smaller jobs, like this one down here, that
6 won't be a budgeted type item. We'll do that as
7 just -- it will come out of our -- you know what
8 we've -- what we've gotten before -- what we call
9 our FMIP, which is our facilities and maintenance
10 improvement money. Generally about a million bucks
11 a year. And that's when we do smaller jobs,
12 painting, flooring, some stuff like this.
13 MR. VICE CHAIR: Maintenance, upkeep, things
14 like that?
15 MR. RUTHERFORD: Maintenance, upkeep, or
16 smaller little renovations that people want, but
17 larger jobs, the ones we're really talking about,
18 those will come in the way of budget approvals, you
19 know, almost 99 percent of the time, it's coming in
20 the way of a -- a submitted budget for an annual
21 budget. So it's going to be line itemed and that
22 will all be -- you know, trans -- there will be
23 never anything hidden.
24 MR. VICE CHAIR: Who makes a determination of
25 how big -- how large a project is too large and
Page 35
1 vice versa? Like, is that --
2 MR. RUTHERFORD: Great question. So what we
3 do is, we take -- and it's by statute. We take a
4 -- we do a complete cost estimate and we cover
5 everything, you know. So if we're doing it
6 in-house, some of it and out house some of it --
7 MR. VICE CHAIR: You outsource some of it,
8 sub-contract it.
9 MR. RUTHERFORD: Outsource some of it.
10 MR. VICE CHAIR: Yeah.
11 MR. RUTHERFORD: We'll call around. We'll get
12 some numbers for the outsourcing, getting the
13 general pricing of all that. For the in-house
14 stuff, we'll do our -- our materials and our labor.
15 We'll source all that out. We use a standard --
16 what's it called -- a standard cost estimate for
17 every different group. You'll see paint, flooring
18 tiles.
19 So anyway, it's a pretty big cost estimate.
20 We use that, and then we put overhead by statute.
21 You got to put a 20 percent overhead on top of that
22 because contractors like you have an overhead. So
23 what we're trying to do is show --
24 MR. VICE CHAIR: Like for like.
25 MR. RUTHERFORD: That it's like for like. So
Page 36
1 -- so -- so a contractor might come and say, Well,
2 of course you can do it for under $200,000. You
3 don't have overhead or you don't have this. We
4 have to put all that in there, and then we just
5 make sure that it's under our threshold, and we
6 submit it, and so we have checks and balances.
7 We send it over to purchasing. They look
8 through it, you know. Usually it goes to legal at
9 some point to make sure that things are going on --
10 that we're following the rules, but to answer your
11 question, we -- we -- we prepare and submit a cost
12 estimate.
13 MR. VICE CHAIR: Okay. Do you get a break on
14 your permit fees?
15 MR. RUTHERFORD: No. No. We pay for all --
16 every permit --
17 MR. VICE CHAIR: Just had to ask.
18 MR. RUTHERFORD: -- all that like everybody
19 else. And funny enough, here's -- you know, a
20 decade ago, that might not have been -- that might
21 not have been the case, but these days, we're
22 paying for all the permits.
23 MR. VICE CHAIR: At least we're all on the
24 same page.
25 MR. RUTHERFORD: We are.
Page 37
1 MR. DiFRANCESCO: So I've got a question.
2 So -- so a lot of these in-house plumbers and
3 electricians I assume, do they hold any kind of
4 license?
5 MR. RUTHERFORD: They do. So just recently --
6 actually, it might have been this -- was it this
7 Board? I think it was. It was the -- one of
8 the -- one of the County contractor's boards just
9 approved Michael Kodos's master electrician's
10 license, right, went in through the County program,
11 got all his training, got his letters, came in
12 front of one of these boards. It may have been
13 this one.
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: It was us.
15 MR. RUTHERFORD: Yeah. And so we're running
16 through those. So we have -- and we have -- so
17 like that's our electricians. We're working on the
18 -- we have a second electrician in facilities and
19 we're working on him to get him to come in front of
20 this Board. We have one, two, three plumbers. All
21 three of those plumbers right now are actively
22 working on trying to get their letters from the
23 companies they work for or whatever, to try to do
24 the same thing. They all have the qualifications
25 for these things. I'm just trying to get them in
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1 front of this Board so they can --
2 MR. VICE CHAIR: Just not the certification.
3 MR. RUTHERFORD: So they can walk away with
4 their master --
5 MR. VICE CHAIR: Big difference between
6 qualifications and certifications so --
7 MR. RUTHERFORD: There is. To be clear, in --
8 in Florida, there's another state statute. Before
9 we talked about 255.20, which talks about our
10 purchasing thresholds. There's also one, 489.103,
11 is that right, Paragraph 3. That gives the County
12 their exemption to be able to do this work without
13 certifications and licensing.
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: Yeah.
15 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Really?
16 MR. RUTHERFORD: Yes, sir. If you're a County
17 employee and you're working on your own
18 facilities -- it's like you working on your house.
19 It's the same thing.
20 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Well, not exactly because if
21 you got a homeowner and it's not their home, but
22 it's a rental, they cannot pull the permits for
23 that -- for that rental.
24 MR. RUTHERFORD: Sure.
25 MR. DiFRANCESCO: They have to hire a general
Page 39
1 contractor to do that.
2 MR. RUTHERFORD: Sure. And in the State of
3 Florida, we're allowed to work on our own buildings
4 without a license with no threshold.
5 MR. VICE CHAIR: I see Mr. Harvey over there
6 shaking his head yeah so he came prepared.
7 MR. HARVEY: If I may, Mr. Chairman.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Absolutely. Please.
9 MR. HARVEY: For the record, Doug Harvey,
10 building official. Mr. Rutherford is correct.
11 It's actually Florida Statute 489.103 3(b) I think
12 it was, wasn't it, Danny? I think. And just for
13 clarification to Mr. DiFrancesco's point, there is
14 a difference between licensing and permitting.
15 Okay. Permitting is not covered by
16 Florida Statute 489. Only contracting and the
17 requirement for a contractor's license or the
18 exemptions for a contractor's license. Permitting
19 is actually covered by Florida Statute 553, which
20 is the Florida Building Commission and refers to
21 the Florida Building Code for permitting. Okay.
22 There -- within 553, as Mr. Rutherford made mention
23 of, there's a statute -- part of the law in there,
24 I believe it's 553.80, please don't quote me on
25 that when I know it's close, but it specifically
Page 40
1 says that we are not permitted to charge permit
2 fees to one person and apply those permit fees to
3 another project.
4 So we are required to charge the permit fees
5 whether it's to a contractor or to the County. We
6 have to apply them uniformly across the board.
7 And just one other point kind of on a -- I'm
8 going to digress here for just a second -- I wanted
9 to introduce Alphanette Waters, who is our new
10 assistant building official. You will be seeing
11 her at the meetings or meetings that I can't make.
12 She'll definitely be sitting in. She comes to us
13 from the City of Port St. Lucie. Many of you may
14 know her. You probably worked with her at the
15 City. She's very qualified, is licensed through
16 the State of Florida as an inspector, as a plans
17 examiner, and also as a building code
18 administrator/building official.
19 MR. VICE CHAIR: I've had the pleasure of
20 working with -- with Ms. Waters at the City of Port
21 St. Lucie. I think she's -- she's absolutely
22 brilliant and we're lucky to have her here in
23 St. Lucie County.
24 Danny, thank you. I appreciate.
25 MR. RUTHERFORD: Sure. So I hope -- I hope we
Page 41
1 cleared that up, Mr. DiFrancesco.
2 MR. DiFRANCESCO: No, we're good.
3 MR. RUTHERFORD: So yes, we're allowed to work
4 without those certificates but that's -- we still
5 intend to come get them from this Board. That's --
6 that's our goal.
7 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Okay.
8 MR. VICE CHAIR: Does anybody else have any
9 questions of Danny?
10 BOARD MEMBERS: (No response.)
11 MR. VICE CHAIR: Awesome. Thank you for being
12 here. I appreciate it.
13 MR. RUTHERFORD: Sure. Thank you. Take care.
14 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mrs. Barbieri?
15 MS. BARBIERI: Yeah, Mr. Chairman, if I may
16 for one second before the Board adjourns. I'd like
17 to introduce a new Assistant County Attorney. He's
18 sitting in the back, Blake Phillips. He may
19 sometimes be sitting in.
20 MR. VICE CHAIR: Mr. Phillips, welcome aboard.
21 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you.
22 MR. VICE CHAIR: There's a hiring spree right
23 before the end of the year. Look at that.
24 MS. WILLIAMS: And before we adjourn, I'd like
25 to add, Mr. Zrallack, he has retired. He's now a
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1 County employee. He works for the County
2 engineering department.
3 MR. VICE CHAIR: Does he now?
4 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. So he has retired.
5 MR. VICE CHAIR: He went to the dark side?
6 MS. WILLIAMS: The outside.
7 MR. VICE CHAIR: I didn't see that coming.
8 Well, never mind, I did see that coming.
9 MS. WILLIAMS: And also on the agenda, there's
10 a scribner's error. Our next meeting is
11 December 15th instead of January 19th.
12 MR. VICE CHAIR: December 15th. We see each
13 other -- we just --
14 MS. WILLIAMS: I know. December 15th.
15 MR. VICE CHAIR: You guys just like seeing
16 each other. I mean, look at us. December 15th?
17 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes.
18 MR. VICE CHAIR: Is Mr. DiFrancesco going to
19 be in town on that date?
20 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Uh-huh.
21 MR. VICE CHAIR: Yeah, he likes to travel a
22 lot.
23 MR. DiFRANCESCO: Maybe Italy.
24 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. That's all I have.
25 MR. VICE CHAIR: Does anybody else have any
Page 43
1 new surprises? We're good? Mr. Langel, you got
2 anything?
3 MR. LANGEL: No, sir.
4 MR. VICE CHAIR: Adjourned.
5 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you.
6 (Meeting concluded at 9:03 A.M.)
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1 STATE OF FLORIDA )
: SS
2 COUNTY OF ST. LUCIE )
3
4 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
5
6 I, KAREN M. BELLEMARE, FPR, a Shorthand
7 Reporter, certify that the foregoing transcript,
8 Pages 1 through 43 inclusive, was transcribed from
9 an audio recording that was provided by
10 St. Lucie County. The transcript is a true and
11 accurate transcription to the best of my ability.
12 I certify further I am neither attorney nor
13 counsel for, nor related to, nor employed by any of
14 the parties to the action, and further, that I am
15 not a relative or an employee of any party in this
16 action, nor am I financially interested in the
17 outcome of this action.
18 Dated this 15th day of January, 2022.
19
20
21 _________________________
22 KAREN M. BELLEMARE
23
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A
A.M 43:6
Abe 17:16
ability 44:11
able 10:21 33:3
38:12
aboard 41:20
absolutely 9:9
11:17 27:5 39:8
40:21
accept 4:21 5:10
6:12 17:4 19:10
25:18,20
accurate 44:11
action 44:14,16,17
actively 37:21
actual 32:4
add 41:25
addition 33:18
address 8:19 15:22
16:11 18:4
adjourn 41:24
Adjourned 43:4
adjourns 41:16
administer 5:5
administratively
7:9
administrator/bu...
40:18
affirm 3:21 8:24
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affirmative 3:24
afternoon 22:21
agency 5:3
agenda 15:12 17:19
29:18 32:17 42:9
agent 29:11
ago 17:25 36:20
agreement 25:17
ahead 4:7,12 7:22
15:12 27:13 28:7
air 31:8
allow 7:24 13:21
allowed 32:2 39:3
41:3
allowing 31:9
allows 32:16
Alphanette 3:17
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aluminum 7:15
amazing 2:24
Amber 9:4
Amore 10:23 21:14
30:3
amount 22:20
and/or 11:23
Angle 15:22
Annex 1:12
annual 34:20
answer 9:14 10:22
36:10
answered 33:13
Anthony 15:23
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anybody 3:1,2 4:3
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anyway 35:19
Appeal 15:17
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application 11:2
applications 4:9,10
6:4 7:18
apply 40:2,6
appointment 20:24
appreciate 11:4,6
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approval 2:21 4:11
4:22 6:4,12
approvals 34:18
approve 3:3,5 5:11
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approved 4:9 7:9
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April 15:21
arbitration 25:5
areas 21:15
article 30:2,6
ASG 15:24 16:1,3
16:14
assistant 27:24
30:4 40:10 41:17
assume 37:3
attorney 8:15 9:5
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30:5 41:17 44:12
attorneys 20:17
audience 4:3,5
29:17
audio 44:9
August 2:22 9:21
11:2
Avenue 1:12
aware 10:23
Awesome 41:11
Aye 3:11 5:17 6:20
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B
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back 9:21 41:18
bad 27:1
balances 36:6
Barber 17:24 18:1
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