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Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
January 11 2000
Convened: 3:04 p.m.
Adjourned: 5:12 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Monday, January
11, 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex Building,
2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
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Members not present:
Others present:
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William Furst, Chairman
Philip Steel
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanaugh
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Vice-Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce was
represented by Dennis Beach, City Manager
Roger Orr, Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
David Souza
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Stephen Harty, Williams, Hatfield & Stoner
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Ray Wazny, St. Lucie County Public Works Director
Bob Bangert, Holiday Pines P.O.A.
Jeanne Hearn, Indrio Citizen
Julia Shewchuk, St. Lucie County Community Development Director
Commissioner Doug Coward, St. Lucie County Commission
Charline Burgess, Assistant to Commissioner Coward
Stix Nickson, St. Lucie County Association of Realtors
James David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control Director
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Jeni Brock Steel, Tribune
Jim Reeder, Palm Beach Post
Gail Sudore, Martin County Florida Land Trust Network
Elizabeth T. Martin, Assistant to Commissioner Hutchinson
Richard McMillen, Army Corps of Engineers
Paul Phillips, Director St. Lucie County Airport
Shailesh K. Patel, BCI Engineers
A. L. Fletcher, Army Corps of Engineers
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
January 11, 2000
Page Two
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Commissioner Frannie Hutchinson, St. Lucie County
Barbara Felton, Assistant to Commissioner Lewis
Victoria Stalls, Assistant to Commissioner Barnes
Robert Weist, Weist Environmental
Robert Bradshaw, Asst. County Administrator
Commissioner Paula Lewis, St. Lucie County
Richard Carnell, Indian River Terminal
Bill Leshe', Indian River Terminal Company
R. J. Leshe', OTC
J. S. Leshe', OTC
Jerry Vasil, River Park Mobil Home Comm.
George Andreassi, Port St. Lucie News
Richard Bouchard, St. Lucie County Engineering
Gerald Kuklinski
Gail A. Samples, Homeowner
Shirley Burlingham, North Beach Association
John Arena, Waterfront Council
Lowell Sasser, Resident St. Lucie County
Gilbert Kennedy, Fort Pierce Resident
Tim Murphy, U. S. Army Corps of Engineers
Sam Baum, Fort Pierce
Marge Thomas, Fort Pierce
John Yanaros
Paul Sinnott
Albert Bundge
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney
Bill Thiess, St. Lucie Village
T. A. Wyner, Sunnier & Chamber
Amy Wright, Resident Rouse Road
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
January 11, 2000
Page Three
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Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Public Comment
Jeanne Hearn questioned the useable part of the parcel at the Lagoon. Jim David
responded that there are 55 acres of useable property.
Jeanne Hearn asks if they are considering the mitigation cost as part of the overall cost that
is being given. Jim David responded yes.
Margaret Thomas asks if the area to be used will be lined to keep it from going back into
the Lagoon or into homeowners wells. There are no plans to use a liner on the Seminole
property.
Lowell Sasser commented about the Port.
John Arena gave his view on the disposal Site issue.
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3.
Approve Minutes from October 26, 1999 and November 8, 1999.
It was moved by Dan Nelson, seconded by Gail Kavanagh, to approve the minutes of the
October 26, 1999 meeting and November 8,1999 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
4. Update/Recommendation on a tentative site for the Upland Disposal Site.
Doug Anderson stated that he received a letter dated January 11, 2000 to be read into the
record.
The letter read as follows:
I live at 5051 North Old Dixie Highway I am very concerned about the possible dump site
in my neighborhood. The land I live on has been in my family for eighty years it's a very
nice area and it would be a great shame to destroy the peace and quiet of Indrio. We are
concerned about the odor and noise this dump site will create. My husband and I would
love to be at the Harbor Advisory meeting today but cannot because we both work. Please
read my letter into the record. Thank you, Barbara Guettler Debus.
Mr. Anderson asks engineer S.K. Patel to give an update on the location of a site and
information about the site.
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S. K. Patel states that he will give a brief on what has transpired the last couple of days. S.
K. states that along the east side of the proposed Upland Management Site they have
residents with concerns. Their concerns are the monitoring wells along their property and
also the appearance of the disposal area. S.K. brought photographs of what the site may
look like. S.K. stated that all the concerns will be addressed. To date none of the
sediments in the Indian River lagoon or else where have been classified as hazardous
material. He stressed they have no intention of dumping hazardous material on the land.
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.. The concentration of metals may be higher than back soils but are not classified as
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
January 11, 2000
Page Four
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hazardous materials.
S. K. states that he called the members of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory
Committee to find out what their concerns are on this topic. S.K. states that he hopes to
answer all questions and concerns through his presentation. S. K. shows photographs to
the committee of Turkey Creek Upland Management Site and explains that this site will be
similar to ours. He also has samples of water to show the clarity.
S. K. states that because of future airport expansion they have come to the conclusion that
the Airport site is not going to work for this particular project. This is a long range Upland
Management site and once it is used it will only be used for that purpose.
S. K. states that the Seminole site is the site that they will be able to work with. They called
FDEP and they are willing to modify the Army Corps permit to place roughly seventy
thousand cubic yards of fill back in to restore vegetation.
David Souza asks if the cross overs on the railroad will be a problem. S. K. states FEC
allows use of the eastern side of its right of way.
Philip Steel states that he feels obligated to ask why we do not put the material on the site
right adjacent to Harbour Pointe. Stephen Harty answers by saying that this is not just
Taylor Creek dredging and we need to supply a long range long term Spoil Site.
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Discussion ensued regarding the environmental issues on the sites.
Doug Anderson informs the group that he is putting together a tour of the Turkey Creek site
so that people will understand by seeing, feeling and touching the site.
Tim Murphy from the Army Corps of Engineers states that he is prepared to make a
proposal that the Army Corps of Engineers stands ready to implement. In the last couple
of weeks and months the Army Corps has been working closely with St. Lucie County in
trying to expedite the availability of an Upland Site and we have been waiting for several
years now to maintain the Fort Pierce Harbor. In the interim we have pursued continued use
of the offshore Disposal Site what we call the Offshore Dredge Material Disposal Site. The
Offshore Site will probably be reopened in the near future probably by the end of January
if things go as planned. The Corps stands ready to bring in a hopper dredge Corps of
Engineers owns dredge McFarlane. In an April or May time frame of this year about four
months away we would like to dredge and maintain this harbor including the turning basin
and interest channel. Currently looking at approximately 150,000 yards of material to be
dredged. We are prepared to come in and remove all the material and take it to the offshore
site at 100 percent Federal expense. It will not cost the County a dime to do that. The job
will take seven to ten days. Mr. Murphy explains that EPA requires many tests and that all
tests have passed. Mr. Murphy ends his presentation by stating that the Corps stands ready
to do a maintenance job coming up in April or May of this year he explained that he wanted
to bring this up as an option/opportunity. Mr. Murphy states that the Army Corps of Engineer
also stands ready to help cost share in an Upland Disposal Site and will pay 65 percent of
the cost.
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Mr. Anderson ask if the County where able to secure FSTED funding and if the County
where able to fast track this Upland Spoil Site, assuming that the Army Corps would fund
65 percent of the constructions cost, and the County had an agreement in place and could
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go ahead and get a bridge loan and up-front these cost to get this site going now.
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
January 11, 2000
Page Five
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The County could then receive reimbursement from the Army Corps in two years or however
long it takes. Could the Army Corps possibly wait till this fall if the County was able to come
up with a site by then? Tim Murphy answers by stating that the citrus season runs from
November to maybe May. Mr. Murphy states that this year the Corps has been of no value
to them as far as helping them make their operations more efficient and transporting out
citrus at a much lower cost then they have. He explains that the mission would be to have
that channel cleared before next citrus season. Mr. Murphy stated that the Corps dredge
just happens to be in the neighborhood it will be coming by Fort Pierce in the middle of April
on its way back to Philadelphia to its home port and that the April date came up because that
is the time it will be coming by Fort Pierce. We want to maintain this harbor as quickly as
possible and this is 100 percent Federal cost. It would be very hard pressed to wait, but we
would work with you.
Dan Nelson asks Doug Anderson if the previous Commission resolved not to support any
future dredging in the turning basin as long as the material was dumped offshore. Mr.
Anderson states that is correct the Commission did pass a resolution stating that they would
not support offshore disposal and that is why we have been working trying to get an Upland
Disposal Site. Dan Nelson asks if the County supports the project in April. Mr. Anderson
states that this was just presented and that the Commissioners have not heard of it yet.
Chairman Furst asks the Committee if they would be in the position to recommend to the
County to proceed with acquiring the Upland Disposal site.
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Doug Anderson explains to the Committee that what they would be recommending is to
agree with the Board of County Commissioners recommendation that we apply to FSTED
for 50 percent of the funding for Taylor Creek restoration and the Upland Spoil Site.
Gail Kavanagh made the motion, it was seconded by Roger Orr, upon roll call the motion
carried unanimously.
5. Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Dan Nelson, seconded by Roger Orr,
to adjourn, and the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 5:12 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Melissa W. Stiadle
Recording Secretary
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
William Furst, Chairman
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Vice Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh
Philip Steel
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
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Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1 2000
Convened: 3:04 p.m.
Adjourned: 4:20 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday,
February 1, 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex
Building, 2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
Members not present:
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Others present:
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Philip Steel
Gail Kavanaugh, Vice-Chairman
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Roger Orr, Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
David Souza
Dan Nelson
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Stephen Harty, Williams, Hatfield & Stoner
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Bob Bangert, Holiday Pines P.O.A.
Jeanne Hearn, Indrio Citizen
Julia Shewchuk, St. Lucie County Community Development Director
Charline Burgess, Assistant to Commissioner Coward
Stix Nickson, St. Lucie County Association of Realtors
James David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control Director
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Paul Phillips, Director St. Lucie County Airport
Shailesh K. Patel, BCI Engineers
Commissioner Frannie Hutchinson, St. Lucie County
Robert Bradshaw, Asst. County Administrator
Richard Carnell, Indian River Terminal
Bill Leshe', Indian River Terminal Company
John Arena, Waterfront Council
Marge Thomas, Fort Pierce
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Commissioner Cliff Barnes, St. Lucie County
David Hall, St. Lucie Association of Realtors
Shirley Burlingham, North Beach Homeowners Assoc.
Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney
Dennis Beach, City of Fort Pierce
Kathleen Stubbolo, St. Lucie County Community Development
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
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Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the December 28, 1999 and January 11, 2000 meetings.
It was moved by Mary Ann Bryan, seconded by Philip Steel, to defer action of approval of
the minutes from the December 28, 1999 and January 11, 2000 meetings to give the
committee adequate time to read through them.
3.
Public Comment
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Stix Nickson suggested a possible solution to the dredging problem. Mr. Nickson
suggested that we continue moving forward in obtaining an Upland Spoil Site for dredging
and that we consider giving the Army Corps. an emergency one time dump out in the ocean
by EPA regulation to cure the existing problem for Indian River Terminal and Harbor
Branch.
Robert Anderson asked how much silt or muck is in the area of Turkey Creek vs. how much
silt will be at the Seminole Site. Robert Anderson also asked that Doug Anderson address
the issues that they discussed earlier.
Doug Anderson explained that there are two issues that Robert Anderson is referring to.
The first issue is his concern with a buffer zone being placed on the property between
where the actual spoil will be placed and the highway. Doug Anderson explained that the
spoil will be placed closer to the inlet next to the illegal canal. Doug Anderson also
explained that he told Robert Anderson that the County would place some type of a
landscape buffer zone so that the spoil site would not be highly visible from the highway.
If trees need to be added that would be included in the project cost. The second issue is
possible contamination of his and his neighbors well water. Doug Anderson explained that
it is not his position to state what is and is not the County's liability but, suggested that a
meeting with Dan Mcintyre the County Attorney be set up so that Mr. Anderson fully
understands the County's liability.
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S. K. Patel explained that there were 160,000 cubic yards of muck in phase one of the
dredging for year one at the turkey Creek site. The capacity is 270,000 cubic yards.
Sediments are similar in physical characteristics (percent organic vs. sand/silt). S. K. stated
he does not know what the Army Corps. percentages will be but, the Taylor Creek site
would be similar to the Turkey Creek site.
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Three
4.
Update/Recommendation on the Upland Management Site.
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S. K. Patel stated that he and Steve Harty met with Bruce of FDEP and went over the
proposed site. S. K. stated they presented going forward with an environmental resource
permit to go ahead and look at the entire site with the understanding that they would like
to use as much Upland as possible. S. K. stated he would like to address some of Mr.
Anderson concerns regarding a possible buffer. S. K. stated that Bruce thought this would
be a good idea and something that they should definitely look into. S. K. stated that the
main issue is that they have about 40 or 50 acres of Upland and a total of about 60 or so
at this site and between 60 to 80 in different places. S. K. stated that what they would like
to do is go ahead and maximize the use and construction so that the dollars are used most
effectively. Which would mean that they may go ahead and use the 35 acres in the one
area so that they have a buffer and will take into consideration all environmental concerns.
S. K. stated that one of the questions that will be addressed is the method of dredging, the
dredging design and whether the pipe line will come along the FEC Railroad or whether
it would come through the waterways and what impact it will have on sea grass. It was
explained that all of these issues will go into the permitting process. S. K. stated that they
asked Bruce what he thought about this site and the Airport site stating that obviously the
Airport site has wetland. S. K. stated that he explained to Bruce that they have gone
through a process of eliminating the Airport site and Bruce agreed that the Seminole
property would be a better site because of its location. S. K. stated that from all of the sites
that they have looked into he feels that this is the best site that the County has to put this
material on. S. K. stated that this may not make everyone happy but, this is the site they
have and it will make the best site for a long term Disposal Site. S. K. stated that FDEP
would be happy if they went ahead and filled the illegal dredged canal currently located on
the property and create a wetland. They were told that they would probably get credits for
doing so. S. K. stated that they have an existing permit that belongs to the Army Corp. and
it would simply require a modification of that permit to utilize this site. S. K. states that this
is where they stand right now as far as the Upland Disposal Site is concerned.
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Chairman Johnson asked under what circumstances the decision would be made as to
whether they would use the FEC area. S. K. answered by stating that this is something
they want to consider right away, because they will have requirements of burying the
pipeline and an emergency plan on monitoring the pipeline throughout the dredging project.
FEC does charge a nominal fee for use of their right of way. Roger Orr asked if they do
use the FEC right of way would this be a permanent installation or would the pipe have to
be pulled out when the operation is done. S. K. answered by stating that normally it is
pulled out when it is done because the pipeline is part of the package which belongs to the
dredgers. S. K. stated that he is not sure if FEC would even allow them to keep the pipeline
in there. S. K. explained that pipeline will not be going over the roads it will be going under
the roads. Roger Orr asked if we use this site from time to time for maintenance dredging
why not put a pipe in. S. K. explained that once Taylor Creek is dredged the probability is
it will not need to be done again in the next five to ten years. S. K. explained that last time
is was dredged was thirty-six to thirty-eight years ago. After cleaning Taylor Creek and the
turning basin what is left is the inlet. The inlet will be dredged every four or five years. S.
K. stated that we need to remember with this dredging project and a lot of the storm water
retrofits and sources that we are going to be controlling through the years, the need for
continuous dredging will diminish as time goes by if everything is done the way it should be
done. S. K. stated to keep in mind that once Taylor Creek is dredged 170,000 cubic yards
we may not dredge again for the next twenty five years. David Souza stated that it is now
a requirement in St. Lucie Village that the pipes will have to be buried three feet deep. S.
K. responded by stating that he is very disappointed that this resolution was just passed on
the 25th of January and he thinks that it has been done in haste without really understanding
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Four
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this project. S. K. explained that this is all part of public education and once people
understand how its going to look they will have a different perception. David Souza stated
that the pipeline would be run right through a residential area. S. K. explained that this is
an issue that would be looked at and is part of the permitting process. S. K. stated that
people need to understand that if they start putting road blocks up before the project begins
it makes the project that much more difficult and more costly. S. K. explained that they
understand all the environmental impacts and will do the best they can forthe people of this
County. S. K. stated that he hopes the people also understand if we are going to be good
steward to the Indian River Lagoon by passing this resolution they are just making the
project that much tougher to get done. If we are all doing it for the Indian River Lagoon
then we need to step back and really think about what the pros and cons are. S. K. asked
if putting a pipeline three feet under the ground really solves their problem. David Souza
stated that you have to remember the residents there have the highest tax base per capita
in the County. The people up there pay more taxes there than in any place else in the
County and to have an unsightly pipe down through there they don't feel this is reasonable
nor do they want diesel pumping stations along through there. S. K. asked if the
understanding is that these will be permanent fixtures in that site and stated that he is sure
that if they dredge for three months and then take everything out he is sure that for three
months these people would not mind having a pipeline running there. David Souza
responded that he is not so sure about that. S. K. stated that there are a lot of things that
we have to go through and he thinks that they have moved hastily without really
understanding but they will work with them. Mr. Anderson stated that none of us want
offshore disposal and we have all worked very hard to come up with a solution and having
road blocks put in our way does make it more difficult and hopefully we can work our
differences out. If we keep getting shut down, we are going to run out of alternatives and
they will be dumping offshore. S. K. stated that the best alternative with no cost to the
County may be to let them dredge and put it offshore with the stipulations that there will be
people in the boats going with the barge and making sure they dump it where they say their
site is and have that in the clause. This would help the people in Indian River and Harbor
Branch and so forth and then we could work toward a long term disposal site. S. K. stated
that in his personal opinion this would seem to be the best approach. Chairman Johnson
stated that the conversation and Mr. Souza comments amplify the need and the concern
that the public is made aware of what is coming down the pike. Chairman Johnson stated
that her people got out and took notices up there to them because none of the citizenry was
involved. Chairman Johnson stated that she thinks this should have been done a year ago
because nothing beats understanding and one picture is worth a thousand words.
Chairman Johnson stated that we cannot allow things like this to constantly happen where
the people are not brought on board. Mrs. Johnson stated "I appreciated getting to go up
there and it was made open to everybody and quite a few of us went that have different
ideas about the port area but this just goes to show how we not embark upon something
like this unless we give the people an opportunity." Mr. Anderson Stated the County did
go to Crane Creek a couple years ago. We did this whole process and went up to Crane
Creek in a bus and took citizens up there. Mr. Anderson stated that the County has really
tried to do an education process in this community. Chairman Johnson stated that no
where does she remember them saying that they were going to put an Upland Disposal Site
up here and if that had been done for the people it would have had an effect. Robert
Anderson stated that he went to his neighbors and some of his neighbor's act like as quick
as they read in the paper that the Corp. of Engineers was involved they acted like you can't
fight City Hall you can't fight the Corp. of Engineers. Robert Anderson also stated that it
is apparent to him by being in these meeting that the Corp. does what they want and no one
else can do anything about it. S. K. stated that he agrees with what Delores has to say
and thinks that this is one of the things they had in the scope for Taylor Creek. S. K.
explained that Taylor Creek is a separate task specifically for public involvement and
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Five
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public participation and since he has been involved two years now from day one we have
not moved one bit further. S. K. stated to also realize that as we get more and more road
blocks we have to start deviating from the scope we have. S. K. asked if anyone can get
him a copy of the City Ordinance that says that dredge material cannot be placed on City
property.
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John Arena gave his views on how the project could be done without a water separation site
and how future dredging could be prevented by digging deep pockets in Taylor Creek to
catch the silt. Mr. Arena suggested that they call Steve Cassens of Fort Pierce Farms and
ask if he knew of any properties that might be available. S. K. stated that they would take
his comments into consideration. S. K. explained that the at the site west there was a need
for a liner and that the Airport property was looked at because it was County owned and
supposedly was free but there is a cost value to that as well. Mr. Arena asks what would
the cost be. S. K. asked Steve Harty for the cost amount and numbers. Steve explained
that he does not have the cost for the site west along the Fort Pierce Farms Water Control
District canal number one except that it was significantly higher than utilizing the Seminole
Site. The site was not larger. The site was eighty acres or less. This site is one hundred
thirty-six acres. Of the eighty acres we could utilize the vast majority but there are a couple
of problems. The liner is a problem because we do not want salt water intrusion into fresh
water ground source and then the return water problem. Mr. Harty explained that they have
narrowed this down from forty sites then to seventeen then to six and then this site was
presented by Jim David. Mr. Harty said that he stated to Jim David that there was no way
that this site could be the more economical source. The more we looked at it and the more
we compared and do to the fact that we do not need a liner or the return water pumping this
site stood out head and shoulders above the rest. Mr. Harty stated that he did not have the
figures with him but the Airport site was much more expensive, it was surprising.
Bob Bangert asked Mr. Anderson what else is tied to the use of the FSTED money and if
after the site has the fill on it what happens if they want to do something else with this site.
Mr. Anderson answered by stating that this is a permanent site. Mr. Anderson asked S.
K. how long he thought this site would last if no material was hauled off. S. K. answered
by stating minimum thirty years.
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Richard Carnell asked how long the County has been looking for an Upland Site and if we
know the date of the contract with the Army Corps. of Engineers. S. K. answered by stating
that they have been looking for two years now. Mr. Carnell asked if it is fair to say that it
has been pretty much five or six years. Mr. Anderson stated that he has only been part of
the process for the last two years when we started looking for a site for the Taylor Creek
restoration and when the Board of County Commissioner voted that they would not favor
offshore disposal and that was approximately two years ago. Mr. Carnell stated that the
actual contract was signed in 1994. Mr. Anderson stated that was to do the actual
maintenance dredging. Mr. Carnell stated that as part of that contract the County was to
provide an Upland Site. Mr. Carnell stated that he is from the Indian River Terminal
Company and in deference to Robert Anderson it is the business perception that the County
is engaging in paralysis by analysis. Mr. Carnell stated that this thing has been rolled over
and over for six years from the date of the contract. Marcona is not here because it is their
perception there is a small body of citizens or individuals who are controlling the County
and not letting this happen. WCI refused to develop their property because they could not
get any action in dredging before. I am empathetic to Robert Anderson's position but you
have to understand from a commercial perspective we feel like it does no good to show up
at these meetings because it continually gets delayed. We bring in boats, Harbor Branch
runs aground and if we are at fifteen feet as Dan Nelson says at the inlet we have a real
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Six
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problem. We feel like the County is not doing anything at all and Mr. Anderson's group
feels like there's not enough information put out into the public. I think the County is in a
difficult situation were they have to balance the interest of both people and they have done
a great job, some analysis and here is a site. Doug Anderson stated that this committee
will take a vote today either to approve or not approve this site.
Robert Anderson stated that the first he heard of the Upland Site was when the notice was
placed on his door. He also stated that he read in the Vero Newspaper about the meeting
on January 11, 2000. Mr. Anderson stated that homeowners have rights too. Mr. Anderson
also stated that he wants the contract to read that the Upland Spoil Site will be for St. Lucie
County dredging only. Doug Anderson stated that this could be put in the contact because
we are not going to let other Counties dump on our site.
Chairman Johnson commented that the County should address the critical water issue
concerns of the residents and see that issues are met satisfactorily through permitting.
Chairman Johnson stated to Mr. Carnell that he should feel free to contact elected official
and County and City Administrator if something is effecting him before it gets to a critical
point. I am sorry that certain people have the feeling that a few people control everything
and that is not it. We are vocal and people who speak up are vocal and this is how it needs
to be.
Philip Steel stated that he feels there should be an agreement with FSTED that the spoil
site is used only for St. Lucie County. Philip Steel commented that this is the best of the
worst of solutions for digging out Taylor Creek.
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Philip Steel stated that he would like to make the motion that the committee accept this site.
Doug Anderson clarifies the reading of the motion. Mr. Anderson stated that the motion
would read that the committee would be recommending to the Board of County
Commissioners that they proceed with due diligence to purchase the Seminole property.
To be used for St. Lucie County disposal only.
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David Souza commented that he feels that in the long run the Airport would be the better
site. Mr. Souza stated that he realizes that a liner is needed, and that the city has already
had to run a water pipe there because of the old dump site. This is a commercial area so
there won't be trucks running up and down Old Dixie and you won't be impacting the
residential area down through there with construction and so forth. The Airport property
is a valuable piece of land that can be developed to make more tax money for the County
rather then taking 1.2 million out of the County coffers as it is and keep eroding our tax
base. Mr. Souza stated that he realizes that the Airport would have to be compensated but,
it could probably be paid back for a least as much as the people running cattle on that
property. Doug Anderson asked Paul Phillips if he has a price per acre for the Airport
property. Paul Phillip stated that the sites that have infrastructure are actually sold off for
$45,000 an acre. Paul Phillips stated that he was unsure what area Mr. Souza was
speaking of. Mr. Souza answered by stating the area that runs along Indrio road that the
cattle people lease. Mr. Souza asked what amount the cattle people lease this property for.
Paul Phillip stated he was unsure what they pay but that the Shrimp aqua culture has an
area at the corner of Indrio and Taylor Dairy and they pay fair market value of $1800.00 a
month. Paul Phillip stated that an appraisal would have to be done and it would be based
on fair market value. Doug Anderson stated that if it was to be put at the Airport this would
be a permanent site. Philip Steel commented that people in the room are not in favor of
expanding the Airport but in twenty or thirty years when we are all gone someone may want
to do that and this could impact the future of the Airport.
6
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Seven
'-'
Doug Anderson reminded Chairman Johnson that there is a motion on the table. The
motion is seconded, by Gail Kavanagh.
Philip Steel asked that the committee be update on all information during this process. Mr.
Anderson answered by stating that the committee is now getting all the correspondence
that he gets.
Chairman Johnson called for a vote on the motion. The motion was accepted 5-1 (David
Souza voting no.)
Gail Kavanagh commented on the serious problem in our inlet and stated we should allow
the Corps. to dredge and dump offshore this one time.
Roger Orr expressed that committee members should be very careful throwing off numbers
as to the depth of the channel stating that comments at the last meeting that the channel
was at 15 feet may have been irresponsible. Mr. Orr asked Mr. Anderson if the Harbor
pilot still guides ships in and out of the inlet. Mr. Orr asked if it is part of his responsibility
to know where it is shoaled up and know where the problems are before he guides ships
in and out of the inlet. Discussion ensued and no one was able to determine who was
responsible. Richard Carnell explained to the committee that Indian River Terminal would
be glad to provide the Harbor pilot as well as the current sounding if they would really like
to fully discuss this. Mr. Carnell stated that he would be glad to provide some type of
presentation. He stated that the most current soundings are from March of 1999.
\."
Philip Steel asked Doug Anderson if there was any way the County could employ a
responsible citizen on a temporary basis who would check each time they dump out in the
ocean to make sure that they are dumping in the right place.
Chairman Johnson commented on the suspected short dumping by the dredger in the past.
Richard Carnell stated that he agrees that nothing beats understanding and if the
committee would like he would like to bring the Harbor Pilot in along with the current
soundings. He also stated that the last dredge was not the Corps. it was a private
contractor. Mr. Carnell explained that Tim Murphy of the Corps. is doing everything to
assure us and make everyone feel good about this process. Mr. Carnell stated that the
last thing anyone wants to see is the reef be a problem. Chairman Johnson commented
that if it has to be done again people should go out and witness it.
Doug Anderson stated that at the next meeting on February 22, 2000 we could have Indian
River Terminal come and speak to the committee and follow up on all of these questions.
Chairman Johnson stated that she would like to have a couple of divers at the next meeting
and would contact them herself.
Commissioner Bryan stated for the record that "the Army Corps. dredging is not free."
5.
Other Business
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Philip Steel questioned the temporary use of Harbor Branch as a site. Mr. Anderson
answered by stating that he talked with Harbor Branch this morning. They will only accept
the sand which is approximately 50,000 cubic yards. They would not accept the estimated
100,000 cubic yards of silt material. Therefore, this would not be a viable site.
7
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Eight
\..r
Doug Anderson explained to the committee that he met with the Florida Seaport
Transportation and Economic Development Council last week and would like to give them
an update on the meeting, an update on the estimated project cost, an update on where
funds are coming from and give them some information on additional funding. Mr.
Anderson stated that the total estimated cost of the Upland Site including the land purchase
at this point is $4,015,000.00 assuming we go with the Seminole Site. Mr. Anderson stated
that he ask FSTED to fund 50% of the Upland Site and the Taylor Creek restoration
projects. FSTED voted thirteen to one (Port Canaveral voting against) in favor of FSTED
financially participating in these two projects which would be 50% of the cost. When
permits are received from the agencies, FSTED will be ready to allocate the funding to the
County. The County will pay the money up-front and then submit the invoices to FSTED
for reimbursement. They would reimburse us fifty cents on the dollar. FSTED on the
Upland Site is $2,007,500.on the estimated reimbursement we would receive from them
based upon the estimated cost which would leave a short fall of $2,007,500. The Army
Corps. now says that rather then pay 65% of the construction cost that money would go into
the piping. Mr. Anderson explains that he has contacted Congressman Foley's office and
Terry Lewis from Lewis, Longman and Walker, P.A. and they are going to be having a
meeting with the Army Corps. of Engineers to further discuss this and further attempt to get
funding from the Army Corps. Mr. Anderson stated that he contacted David Roach,
Executive Director of the Florida Inland Navigation District and inquired about the site that
they purchased just north of our proposed site. This site would not be big enough for all
of us to use but they have set aside approximately $800,000.00 for construction. Mr.
Anderson stated that he suggested to David Roach that the Florida Inland Navigation
become a partner of the County and take the $800,000.00 and add it to our project. This
would leave their land free for other uses and would be an asset for them. David Roach
will present this to his engineers and get back to the County. There is a possibility that we
could receive at least another $800,000.00 from FIND If they become our partner in this
project. Mr. Anderson explained that the Taylor Creek restoration total estimated project
cost is $2,150,00.00, and we have $788,000.00 coming in from other sources such as the
South Florida Water Management District and St. Johns River Water Management District.
The FSTED request is $1,075,000.00 leaving $287,000.00 for the County share of this
project. The County budgeted roughly this amount in this years budget for Taylor Creek
some of that money has been used toward engineering and I would see if the County did
not receive any additional money for Taylor Creek that this money would be carried over
to next year. Mr. Anderson stated that if the County had to we would come up with our
share for Taylor Creek and that project would be fully funded. Mr. Anderson stated that he
has come up with a concept on how the County could finance these projects to get them
going now. To move forward with the purchase of an Upland Site once the site is decided
upon and getting the permits so we can begin construction. This is where we stand with
the projects dollar amounts.
\...
Upon the arrival of Delores Johnson, Doug Anderson explained to the committee that
Chairman Bill Furst had resigned. Mr. Anderson asked if the committee would like to
nominate Delores Johnson as Chairman of the committee since she is vice chair and have
the group decide on a new Vice Chair. Philip Steel nominated Delores Johnson as
Chairman, the nomination was seconded, by Mary Ann Bryan, the nomination carried
unanimously. Roger Orr nominated Gail Kavanaugh as Vice Chairman, the nomination was
seconded by Philip Steel, the nomination carried unanimously.
~
Doug Anderson informed the committee that a group consisting of County Official, residents
and committee members visited the Turkey Creek site on Saturday.
8
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 1, 2000
Page Nine
6.
Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Roger Orr, seconded by Gail
Kavanaugh, to adjourn, and the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 4:20p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Melissa W. Stiadle
Recording Secretary
C:
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Philip Steel
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
9
f
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Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 22, 2000
Convened: 3:13 p.m.
Adjourned: 4:20 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday,
February 22, 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex
Building, 2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
Members not present:
~
Others present:
~
Philip Steel
Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Dan Nelson
David Souza
Roger, Orr Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Jeanne Hearn, Indrio Citizen
Julia Shewchuk, St. Lucie County Community Development Director
Stix Nickson, St. Lucie County Association of Realtors
James David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control Director
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Richard Carnell, Indian River Terminal
Bill Leshe', Indian River Terminal Company
John Arena, Waterfront Council
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney
Grace Kedziora, Turtle Mother's Fort Pierce
Butch Ergle, Harbor Pilot
Rick McMillen, U. S. Army Corps Engineers
Mike Eduoff, SLC Community Development
Betty Lou Wells
1
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
\... February 22, 2000
Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the December 28, 1999, January 11, 2000, and February 1, 2000
meetings.
It was moved by Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, seconded by Philip Steel, to approve the
minutes of the December 28, 1999 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
It was moved by Philip Steel, seconded by Gail Kavanagh, to approve the minutes of the
January 11, 2000 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
It was moved by Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, seconded by Philip Steel, to approve the
minutes of the February 1, 2000 meeting. Motion Carried unanimously.
~
Chairman Johnson asked that although she voted in favor of proceeding with due diligence
to acquire the Seminole property at the January meeting, that the February 22, 2000
minutes reflect a point of clarification that she had serious concern because of the citizens
concerns with the Seminole site. Chairman Johnson stated that she felt we needed an
Upland Dredge Site but is still not comfortable with the Seminole property site and asked
that the minutes reflect her comment.
3.
Public Comment
Jeanne Hearn asked if other sites besides the Seminole site had been looked into. Doug
Anderson answered by stating that a lot of sites had been looked into and that a report
would be out at the end of the week. Mrs. Hearn asked if they were still pursuing other
sites. Mr. Anderson answered by stating that no other sites were being pursued.
Robert Anderson asked if anyone had checked on previous property values on the current
sites and if this was going to be done. Doug Anderson answered no and stated that he was
not sure if it would be done. Robert Anderson gave his opinion on muck vs. silt and
commented on the Seminole site costs.
Doug Anderson informed the Committee that there would be a report coming out at the end
of the week that would reflect the status of the Upland Spoil Site.
~
4.
Presentation by Indian River Terminal
Richard Carnell conducted a presentation in response to Roger Orr's questions and
discussion at the last meeting concerning the dredging and the proposed offshore disposal.
2
· Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 22, 2000
Page Three
\...-
Please see attached Memo containing discussion points and facts. Mr. Butch Ergle, the
Port Pilot was also in attendance to answer any questions concerning the current status of
the channel.
'--"
Mr. Carnell stated that from a historic perspective in 1994 the project cooperation
agreement between the US Army Corp. and St. Luice County concerning certain rights and
obligations with regard to the harbor itself ultimately lead to the 1995 deepening and
widening of the inlet and the navigational channel. The project depth was 28 feet and the
cost was $8,000,000, $6,000,000 was the Corp. expenditure and $2,000,000 was St. Lucie
County's expenditure. Users of the Fort Pierce Harbor have also been assessed through
an MSBU and that shows up on their tax bill and they pay a certain amount every year. The
Corps. at the same time, in addition to the 1994 project cooperation agreement in 1995 and
1996, requested St. Luice County purchase an upland disposal site primarily as objection
to the offshore disposal. During the 1995 widening and deepening there where 724,000
cubic yards disposed offshore. The April 2000 disposal is contemplating 150,000 cubic
yards. From a 28 feet project depth in 1995 and 1996, the best guess would be an
increase in rate of approximately 1.5 feet per year. The last dredging was in 1996. Dan
Nelson, 30 to 60 days ago said that he felt like the entrance to the channel or the inlet was
approximately 15 feet. Mr. Carnell explained that he thought that maybe this was a little
shallow and that it may have shoaled in certain places at 15 feet but that is was probably
more accurately at 19 feet and explained that Mr. Ergle could address this. Rick McMillen
of the Corps. was available to answer any questions that anyone may have about the April
2000 project. It is a hopper dredge. It is not a dredge that can pump to an upland site. It
has to go offshore. Mr. Carnell explained that there is no cost to the County. This is 100%
Federally funded. They contemplate 7-14 days of actual dredging time and approximately
150,000 cubic yards in contrast to the 700,000 plus in 1995 and 1996. Mr. Carnell stated
that Tim Murphy of the Corps. had spoke with NOAA to run and design a monitoring
program. Mr. Carnell stated that Steve Harty had done studies as to what the material in
the turning basin was vs. channel material vs. inlet material. Mr. Carnell explained that the
inlet material is a high content of loose rock and it is not beach quality sand. Beach quality
sand means that it can be pulled up and pumped to the beach. The turning basin material
is a composition of sediment. S. K. stated at the last meeting that the turning basin acts
as a catch basin for Moores Creek, Taylor Creek and the channel. Whatever is in there is
coming from a lot of different sources. The location of this offshore disposal site is
approximately four miles southeast of Fort Pierce Inlet, and has been used since 1949. Mr.
Carnell presented to the committee a copy of the project survey depths and soundings of
March 1999. The next survey will be done in March of 2000. Mr. Carnell explained that the
depths of the channel outside the inlet are between 33 and 38 feet in depth. Closer to the
inlet are areas of concern where shoaling occurs and it is below project depth. It is not
known whether an increase has been greater than one and half feet or whether it's been
less. It is not known what the Hurricanes have done, whether it is shoaled greater or less.
The greatest area of concern comes in the turning basin itself at 26 and 24 depths. Mr.
Carnell stated that he thinks it's a fair statement to make that what he has presented to the
Committee is the best understanding or information of what they have right now.
'-"
Mr. Ergle stated that the project depths at the entrance at the inlet which is recorded now
at 24 feet 3 inches should be 30 foot, so it is more than 6 feet under project depth. He also
stated that the turning basin project depth should be 28 feet. Mr. Ergle explained that since
the survey there have been a lot of storms in this area so it has definitely filled in some but
the Corps. has not come in to check it yet.
Mr. Carnell asked Mr. Ergle why the shallow water is a big deal. Mr. Ergle responded by
3
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 22, 2000
Page Four
'--"
stating that the ships want to come in with as much draft as they possibly can because that
is how they make their money with cargo and if we have to start cutting back then it cuts
back on their profits. Mr. Carnell asked if the shoaling has any effect on Mr. Ergle as Port
Pilot. Mr. Ergle answered by stating that it is a safety factor and a ship is hard to handle
in shallow water. Mr. Carnell asked if the shoaling repels the ship or pushes the ship. Mr.
Ergle stated that a propeller will try to suck toward the shallower water and explained that
a ship coming in at 28 feet would actually squat down at about 30 foot draft and when you
hit shallow water the boat is sucked down even further then that Mr. Ergle explained that
now we are running at 22 or 23 feet deep at a really high tide where we should have at least
28 feet.
Mr. Carnell stated that the most obvious question is if the County is working on an Upland
Site why do we need to do this dredge. Mr. Carnell stated that from their prospective if we
lose this opportunity to have this done it could be another two to three years before the
Upland Site is purchased and underway. Mr. Carnell stated that the dredge really needs
to happen now. Mr. Carnell explained that the Corps. has taken great steps in terms of
contracting with NOAA to address some concerns. Dr. Perone at NOAA is prepared to
have a ship with local people follow the dredge ship out with a GPS system that will locate
the offshore disposal area. Mr. Carnell explained that the Corps. has worked very hard to
balance interests and concerns.
\.,-
Chairman Johnson asked Mr. Anderson where the County is on all of this. Mr. Anderson
stated the previous Board of County Commissioners passed a resolution that there is to be
no more offshore dumping. The Army Corps. has jurisdiction in this area and if they wish
to come in here and do maintenance dredging in March and April there is really nothing that
the County can do about it. The Upland Site will probably not be ready for two to three
years because of all the permitting, designing and construction. We did take a look at a
temporary Upland Site to accommodate this project but as the Committee was told earlier
they cannot pump from the Ship and it has to be dumped somewhere. Even if we could
have pumped it somewhere this time the estimated construction cost would have been
$700, 000 to $800,000 which we are not prepared to do at this time.
Jeanne Hearn asked if this dredge would eliminate Harbor Branches problems. Tim
Murphy stated that the hopper dredge, the "McFarland", is a substantial vessel and would
not be able to go up into the intercostal waterway.
John Arena commented on fishing after a dredge has been done.
Robert Anderson commented on possible solutions to prevent future dredging from
occurring.
Rick McMillen of the Army Corps. Engineers explained that the County has built a Spur
Jetty which they are monitoring at this time to see if the Spur Jetty is holding any material
in there. The purpose of the Spur was to control the amount of material coming off the
beach into the inlet there.
John Arena commented on the Spur Jetty and its effects thus far.
~
5.
Other Business
Doug Anderson reminded the Committee of the status report of the Upland Disposal Site
that would come out at the end of the week and stated that he hoped this report would be
4
~ Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
February 22, 2000
Page Five
'-"
able to answer questions that have been raised in the past.
Philip Steel asked Assistant County Attorney Heather Young if the County really didn't want
the Corps to come and dredge would we be able to do anything. Attorney Young stated
that she did not know at this time but would look into it and report back to the Committee.
Richard Carnell commented on reasons why we need to let the Corps. come in and do the
dredge and discussion ensued.
John Arena asked when the "McFarland" was built and commented that he thought that it
was time that the Corps. built a ship that could do the job properly. Tim Murphy stated that
the McFarland was built sometime in the 60's or 70's stating he was not sure. Mr. Murphy
stated that the "McFarland" will probably be the last Corps. dredge and that jobs will be
contracted out after that.
Jeni Steel asked who would stand to benefit from the dredging project depth besides Indian
River Terminal. Mr. Carnell answered by stating that he thinks everyone.
Chairman Johnson commented that there needs to be communication and suggested that
the door of communication needs to stay open.
~
Robert Anderson commented on the amount of time it has taken to find an Upland Disposal
Site and stated that he believes that the County has been sitting on its hands. Doug
Anderson explained that when the contract was signed in 1994 offshore disposal was
permitted. Doug Anderson explained that the Upland Disposal issue came up in 1997 and
that is when the County began looking for a site and identifying financing.
6.
Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan,
seconded by Philip Steel, to adjourn, and the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 4:20p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Melissa W. Stiadle
Recording Secretary
C:
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Philip Steel
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
\...
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
5
· .
Don West, County Engineer
'--'
\....-
\."
6
¡.
'-'"
\r
~
. .
Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
March 28, 2000
Convened: 3:06 p.m.
Adjourned: 3:48 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday, March
28, 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex Building,
2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Roger Orr, Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
Jeanne Hearn
Members not present:
Philip Steel
David Souza
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Others present:
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
James David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control Director
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Bill Leshe', Indian River Terminal Company
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney
Mike Ednoff, SLC Community Development
Jeni Brock-Steel, The Tribune
Victoria Stalls, Assistant to Comm. Barnes
Liz Martin, Assistant to Comm. Hutchinson
Angela prymas, SFWMD
David Unsell, SFWMD
Jim Reeder, The Palm Beach Post
Robert Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Michael Waldrop, Anchor Marine
S. K. Patel, BCI
1
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
March 28, 2000
Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the February 22, 2000 meeting.
It was moved by Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, seconded by Roger Orr, to approve the
minutes of the February 22, 2000 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
3.
Public Comment
'-'
Robert Anderson asked if the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee would ask the County
Commission to reconsider and buy some of the smaller sites instead of the Seminole site.
He stated that he was concerned that using one large area would not be good for the
environment and that several smaller sites would have less of an impact on the community.
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan asked Doug Anderson if the option had been considered
rather then one large dumping spot. Doug Anderson answered by stating that it would not
make sense to use smaller sites and run pipes to all these different sites because of the
volume of material coming out of the Indian River Lagoon and the cost associated with
using smaller sites. Doug Anderson reminded the Committee that is has not been decided
that the County will purchase the Seminole site. They are doing due diligence at this point
and no decision has been made.
Jeanne Hearn asked if the new company would require dykes and so forth to be put up.
Doug Anderson stated that Black & Veatch would be reporting in a few weeks but that at
this point he understood that they would not be needed for Taylor Creek. But he stated that
he did not really know.
4. Presentation by David Unsell and Angela Prymas (SFWMD) C25 Canal Modeling Study.
David Unsell with the South Florida Water Management District introduced Angela Prymas
Creator of the Model Study of the Fort Pierce Inlet area. Angela Prymas gave a
presentation to the Committee on the Modeling Study of the Fort Pierce Inlet area. (Please
see attached copy.)
Questions were answered pertaining to the presentation by Angela Prymas and David
Unsell.
\..-
5.
Other Business
Doug Anderson explained that he was anticipating a report from Black & Veatch within the
2
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
March 28, 2000
.. Page Three
next two weeks and wanted to bring them before the Committee hopefully at the next
meeting on April 25, 2000.
6. Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Dan Nelson, seconded by Jeanne
Hearn, to adjourn, and the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 3:48p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Melissa W. Stiadle
Recording Secretary
C:
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Philip Steel
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
3
~
Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
April 25, 2000
Convened: 3:11 p.m.
Adjourned: 3:48 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday, April 25,
2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex Building, 2300
Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
\.,.
Members not present:
Others present:
Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Roger Orr, Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
Jeanne Hearn
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
David Souza
Philip Steel (30 Minutes Late)
Dan Nelson
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
James David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control Director
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Bill Lesh'e, Indian River Terminal Company
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Mike Ednoff, SLC Community Development
Jeni Brock-Steel, The Tribune
Liz Martin, Assistant to Comm. Hutchinson
Robert Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
S. K. Patel, BCI
LeRoy Creswell, St. Lucie Sea Grant Extension
Shirley Burlingham, St. Lucie Waterfront Council
Stix Nickson, St. Lucie Assoc. of Realtors
Lloyd Bell
Julia Shewchuk, SLC Community Development
George Kavanagh, Kavanagh Specialty Contractors
Dennis Beach, City Manager, Fort Pierce
\.-
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
1
April 25, 2000
'-' Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the March 28,2000 meeting.
It was moved by Roger Orr, seconded by Jeanne Hearn, to approve the minutes of the
March 28, 2000 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
3. Public Comment
Robert Anderson stated that he was curious as to why different sites have not been
explored further.
'-"
Doug Anderson explained that the County is exploring the Seminole site for dredge material
from the Indian River Lagoon and if Taylor Creek can be dredged in the manner in which
Black and Veatch is suggesting a temporary site for that portion will be needed. A very
large site for future dredging of the Indian River Lagoon, the Turning Basin and the Inlet will
still be needed. The total cost for the project will not exceed $ 4 Million. Mr. Anderson said
that he has been directed by the Board of County Commissioners to proceed with due
diligence on the Seminole site. If it becomes feasible to dredge the inlet, Turning Basin
and the Lagoon in the method that Black and Veatch is suggesting for Taylor Creek then
a different site could be considered but, we would also have to keep in mind the cost
factors. Mr. Anderson stated that he did not know if this is feasible or not and is waiting for
a report from Black and Veatch. Mr. Anderson stated that all indications at this point, based
upon the traditional way of dredging, show that the Seminole site is feasible according to
the Engineers.
Jeanne Hearn asked if there were any County owned barrier island sites available in that
area. Doug Anderson answered that he was not aware of any. Doug Anderson explained
that a thorough search was done and ten to fourteen sites where originally looked at and
then narrowed down to one.
David Souza stated that they already have a site for dredging the intercostal waterway in
Vero Beach and understood after reading the newspaper that The Army Corp. of Engineers
was not going to use an Upland Site. Doug Anderson explained that The Army Corp. has
stated that they will use an Upland Spoil Site once the County has one ready and in place
and will pay for the piping to that Upland Spoil Site. Mr. Souza stated that it was not his
understanding after reading the paper and it sounded like The Army Corp. of Engineers
was not interested in using a site and was going to continue to dump offshore. Robert
Anderson asked if the price or estimate of the Seminole Site includes buying homes like
they had to from Ridgehaven residents for the Airport. Chairman Johnson responded by
asking Robert Anderson to consider approaching the County Commission with facts and
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
April 25, 2000
Page Three
2
'-"
figures. Chairman Johnson asked if the site Robert Anderson was speaking about was one
that had been considered. S. K. responded by stating at this point he could not address
that questions because this is not the only dredging project he is working on. Robert
Anderson stated that he would bring the map to the next Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory
Meeting. S. K. Patel stated that they have said all along if anyone has any questions they
are more then welcome to call. Chairman Johnson suggested that Robert Anderson follow
through and check with S. K. to compare facts and figures to come up with some type of
ball park figure for the area he was speaking of. Roger Orr asked Robert Anderson if he
objected to the Seminole Site and why. Robert Anderson answered by stating that he did
object and did not want to open his door every morning step outside and see it dead in front
of his home. He also stated that when the wind would be blowing from out of the east that
he would have to keep his windows shut because no matter what anyone says there will be
a certain amount of smell from organisms from the salt water being pumped in. Doug
Anderson explained that the property is industrially zoned and that others have been
looking at the same piece of property for industrial purposes. Roger Orr asked if the site
would involve buffers. S. K. stated that the County has directed them to make sure there
are buffers. S. K. stated that this is something that is being considered at this site. S. K.
stated that at the tour of Turkey Creek no one stated that it stunk or assumed that their
would be an odor. S. K. explained that sea grasses die seasonally and there is a smell.
Sea grass washing ashore is a natural process that occurs every year and has nothing to
do with dredging or muck. Robert Anderson stated that when the group visited Turkey
Creek it had not been pumped since May so there was no way to tell anything about smell.
S. K. stated that he had never had a complaint from anyone in Palm Bay regarding a foul
odor from the muck. Doug Anderson reminded the Committee that the County
Commissioners have not approved buying the site yet and that the Seminoles have not
been given a purchase offer. Robert Anderson stated that what he is trying to say is that
once the green light is given he will not have a leg to stand on. Doug Anderson stated that
the financing is not lined up yet. Chairman Johnson suggested to Robert Anderson to get
with Mr. Patel to line up figures and ask the spokesperson for the Seminole tribe about
changing the zoning of the property. Jeanne Hearn asked when the Environmental Study
would be available. S. K. stated that they are working on it and that it should be at least two
weeks before it is finalized. S. K. stated that then it will go through a review period and be
commented on.
'-"
4.
Update by Doug Anderson on Black and Veatch Study
Doug Anderson presented the Committee with an E-Mail from Black & Veatch (please see
attached copy). Mr. Anderson stated that Black & Veatch have indicated that their
procedure for dredging Taylor Creek will work and the E-Mail confirms that the test results
are favorable. Mr. Anderson stated that the County has been notified by a company in
Pennsylvania who say that they can do the same process, which would mean that the
County would have to go out for proposals. Once we receive the final report from Black &
Veatch that the process will work then the County will go out for proposals to see what
companies are out there in the United States that do that type of work and get their best
proposal. Mr. Anderson stated that when we receive the go ahead from Black & Veatch we
will formalize discussion with the City of Fort Pierce to come up with a site for this material
to be loaded onto and then removed. Roger Orr asked about the memo from Mr. Trias of
the City of Fort Pierce regarding zoning codes on dredge material. Mr. Anderson stated
that the City does not allow a permanent zoning site for dredged material but that Dennis
Beach was willing to talk with the County to come up with a solution.
~
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
April 25, 2000
Page Four
3
?
Port Development Plan with City of Fort Pierce
'-"
Doug Anderson explained the action that the Board of County Commissioners approved at
the April 11, 2000 Board meeting which recommended that County staff be authorized to
work in conjunction with the City of Fort Pierce and Mr. Lloyd Bell, the new owner of the port
property, to prepare a working plan for the development of the port of Fort Pierce to include
exploring the proposal from the Trust for Public Lands. Mr. Anderson explained that Dennis
Beach would be trying to attend the meeting to explain what his goals and objectives are
and outline what he hopes to accomplish with Mr. Bell and The Trust for Public Lands. Mr.
Anderson stated that County staff would hold a meeting with the City of Fort Pierce the
week of May 8th.
6.
Other Business
~
Doug Anderson turned the Meeting over to Dennis Beach, City Manager of the City of Fort
Pierce to explain to the Committee what he hopes to accomplish by meeting with the
County. Mr. Beach stated to the Committee that what City Hall is working toward is getting
a group of staff members from St. Lucie County and the City of Fort Pierce to start
developing specific mechanisms to build and design the infrastructure and find ways to
finance it. The Fort Pierce Commission's intentions are still to pursue what was outlined
in the Charrette document itself, even though the Port property has changed hands
recently. The infrastructure cannot be developed for the Port property without the property
being publicly owned, so we will continue these discussions and pursue that end. At the
last City Commission meeting approval was granted for staff to advertise for consultants
to advise the City and the County on what the development concepts should look like, and
for the design of the Public improvements that are being proposed. There is an engineering
firm doing a feasibility study on the North Port entry and also a sizeable project for the
construction of 2nd Street from the downtown area to the internal part of the Port. Dennis
Beach stated that what he hopes this organization can do is just keep moving this project
forward as it is outlined in the Port Charrette. Discussion ensued regarding the Port
property.
Chairman Johnson asked Mr. Lloyd Bell if he wanted to comment to the Committee. Mr.
Bell explained that there was a lot that he had to learn because of the fact that he just
recently acquired the Port property. Mr. Bell talked about the Commercial use of the Port
Property by importing winter vegetables from the Bahamas and explained that he was
willing to be cooperative and wanted to help the county and the community in any way that
he could. Mr. Bell suggested that all concerned parties meet to discuss all of the issues
to make things more productive. Discussion ensued regarding Mr. Bells intentions and the
time frame for making use of his newly acquired property.
7. Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Roger Orr, seconded by Gail
Kavanagh, to adjourn, and the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 3:48p.m.
\.... Respectfully submitted,
Melissa W. Stiadle
Recording Secretary
4
~
'-'
'-"
C:
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Philip Steel
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
5
'-'
Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
May 23, 2000
Convened: 3:09 p.m.
Adjourned: 4:24 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday, May 23,
2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex Building, 2300
Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Roger Orr, Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
Jeanne Hearn
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Members not present:
Dan Nelson
David Souza
Philip Steel
~
Others present:
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Bill Lesh'e, Indian River Terminal Company
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Liz Martin, Assistant to Comm. Hutchinson
Robert Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Stix Nickson, St. Lucie Assoc. of Realtors
Charlie Bicht, SLC Purchasing
Michael Harvey, SLC Engineering
John Arena, Earth First
Jim Reeder, The Palm Beach Post
Victoria Stalls, Assistant to Comm. Barnes
Drew Dixon, Ft. Pierce News
Jim Lancaster, Assistant County Attorney
,-,.
1
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
\.... May 23,2000
Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the April 25,2000 Meeting.
Chairman Johnson stated that concern was raised and brought to her attention that an
important statement that Mr. Lloyd Bell made at the April 25th meeting regarding use of his
property for dredged material was not included in the minutes. Chairman Johnson stated
that she would like the statement added to the comments that Mr. Bell made at the April
25th meeting (the following statement is taken from the tape verbatim) Mr. Bell stated "... I
do wish to be cooperative and any help that we might be able to give to the County and the
Community, such as came up at this meeting today, as a place to temporarily deposit fill,
as long as it is not creating a long term problem, I see no reason why you couldn't use the
properties that I just acquired and there in the immediate vicinity where I think you are
working and I would be glad to talk with your Engineers about feasibility of doing so, and
if it fits I'll be glad to provide that facility to you..."
~.
It was moved by Roger Orr, seconded by Jeanne Hearn, to approve the minutes of the April
25, 2000 meeting with the addition of Mr. Bell's comment. Motion carried unanimously.
3.
Public Comment
Robert Anderson stated he was curious as to how deep the McFarland dredge did go. He
stated that it was in and out of here so many times that he could have dug it with a drag
line. Chairman Johnson asked John Arena if he had any information on the dredge. Mr.
Arena stated that he had not seen the soundings since the dredge was completed. Don
West stated that he had called the Corp this morning to find out what he could about the
dredge but was unable to reach anyone. Mr. West stated that the Corp normally does a
depth survey when they are done with a project and it was his understanding that they are
conducting that survey now so once the survey results are complete they will put them on
a map to see how deep the water is.
'-'
Robert Anderson stated that he talked with someone from the Corp yesterday and was told
that the Corp would use whatever Upland Spoil Site the County put at their means and that
it did not necessarily have to be the Seminole Site. Chairman Johnson stated this was
basically the understanding, that the Corp would use whatever site the County had
available. Robert Anderson stated that it was his understanding that the Corp picked that
site and said that was the one that they wanted. Mr. Anderson stated that this was also
confirmed on tapes from The Board of County Commission meetings and the past two Fort
Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee meetings, which he stated he has requested copies of.
Chairman Johnson asked Robert Anderson "are you saying that you heard it said here
that's what we want". Robert Anderson answered "I've heard it said here and also heard
it said in another room were I was taken into to be talked to". Robert Anderson stated that
what he has gathered from everyone was that's the site that has been chosen and that's
the reason that his neighbors are saying that you can't fight the Corp and you can't fight
2
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
. May 23, 2000
Page Three
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City Hall. Mr. Anderson stated that it was in the paper that the Corp had chosen that site
too and he has the paper at his house from the 26th of December, and right after the first
of the year. Chairman Johnson asked if that was the Seminole Site that he was talking
about. Mr. Anderson stated yes and explained that he wanted it on record, and he wanted
it brought to the attention of the Committee that the Corp told him that they would utilize any
site especially if it was accessible. Mr. Anderson stated that the area along the C-1 canal
would be probably three miles to pump. Mr. Anderson presented the Committee with Maps
that he talked about at the last meeting. Mr. Anderson said that when stating that no
decisions have been made, that once the green light is given your not going to just walk
away. Chairman Johnson stated that seventeen sites had been looked at and asked if
those sited had ever been published. Don West stated that the Maps that Robert Anderson
gave to the Committee was a copy of those sites. Mr. Anderson stated that he had a copy
of the map with the sites and the reasons why they were turned down. Don West stated
that he wanted to clarify that at a couple of the meetings with the Corp in which he, AI
Fletcher and Tim Murphy from the Corp. Jacksonville office, the seventeen sites were
discussed and pros and cons were discussed. They evaluated the site in terms of their
needs, as to what would suit them best, and they indicated to us at that time that the
Seminole Property would be the best for them. One of the main reasons was because it
fronts right on the Indian River Lagoon, so it is close and easier for them to run pipe in from
the water side rather then having to deal with a lot of land issues. Don West stated that if
you look at other sites that might be further to west or further inland, the Corp. would work
with any site that we selected, however you need to look at the amount of money that is
involved each time to run pipe to that site. Mr. West said that the Corp. will limit their
participation is terms of dollars. They may not necessarily fund the use of one of those
sites that's further west. They would use it but they would charge, so there are a lot of
factors that would come into play. Mr. West said that when looking at the map they
evaluated easy access and looked at environmental conditions and a lot of different factors.
The Corp. strongly indicated that the Seminole site was their first choice. It is true that they
could use other sites, but that was their first choice. If the quote in the newspaper indicated
that the Seminole site was their first choice that is correct. I was at the meetings and they
did say that. Mr. Anderson stated that if the pipes are run along the canal it could be a
permanent pipe and weirs could be put up for back pumping and only utilized when back
pumping right into the canal. The canal goes right into the spillway and over into Taylor
Creek which would mean you could put the brackish water right back in where brackish
water is already. The only difference would be a liner. Mr. Anderson stated that there are
a million different reasons that he could come up with. Jeanne Hearn asked if they had
surveyed the neighborhood to the west because of the fact that there are some mighty fine
homes in that area that she would hate for the County to end up having to purchase. Don
West stated that is one of the issues that they are looking at now and would go into that
further in detail during his update on Taylor Creek. Robert Anderson stated that this was
the only time that he would really get to speak. Chairman Johnson stated that if anyone
had any burning questions once the presentations were over hopefully there would be time
to address those.
~
4.
Update by Don West on Taylor Creek
'-'
Don West stated that the two main goals were to dredge Taylor Creek and remove the silt
and the second one was the spoil site selection. The spoil site was for the Taylor Creek
project and for the inlet and turning basin, and could also be for the intercostal waterways
as well. We are partnering with the drainage districts, Florida Inland Navigation District and
3
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
, May 23, 2000
Page Four
'-
the Port Council. The site is fairly large. It is about eighty acres in size. Taylor Creek
originally was set up as a project were they would dredge from the railroad track to the
Indian River Lagoon. BCI was hired to do a soil analysis on the rest of the Creek. BCI is
sampling the sediments and running laboratory tests to see what the constituents are that
make up the sediments. They are also looking at the up-stream side of the weir structures
at the C25 canal and the C1 canal, which is the Fort Pierce Farms canal, and checking the
sediments behind the weir structures also to see what they can do to try and keep the
sediments from building up on a regular basis. These tests will also help us to know what
kind of chemical we will have to mix with the dredge material to settle out.
~
Mr. West stated that with regards to the Spoil site the Seminole property is the one that they
are focused on because the Board directed them to look at that one site. There were
seventeen sites that were originally evaluated but that the Seminole site was selected to
be evaluated and looked at in detail, and it was recommended to the Board by the Fort
Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee. The decision was made to look at the Seminole site
and that is why they have not looked into other sites or done any other work on them.
When the County buys a piece of land a number of steps have to be taken such as title
search, environmental survey, appraisals and negotiations with the seller on a price. BCI
was hired to conduct a special study to look at the ground water table and take samples to
find out if a liner is required or not. The information regarding the liner will have to be
reviewed before they make a final decision on that site. The next step would be to go back
to the Board of County Commissioners and ask them to make a decision on whether or not
to purchase the Seminole site, and at this time they will have the appraisal, an agreement
on purchase and the information on whether or not a liner is required. Mr. West suggested
that the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee discuss and make a recommendation to
the Board one way or the other in terms of how the Committee feels they should go with the
upland site. Whether they recommend to purchase it or to look at other sites. Mr. West
stated that there are other ways to accomplish a dredging that do not actually require a
conventional Spoil site and stated that Mr. Charlie Bicht would be presenting that to them
later in the meeting. Mr. West stated that the Committee may also want to discuss this
alternative for Taylor Creek dredging but that it was not an options for the Turning Basin
or the inlet because of the magnitude of the job. Mr. West stated that recently they
advertised a request for proposals which would be to hire a consulting Engineer to do
dredging design and dredging permitting. County staff is in the process of going through
the proposals to present a short list to the Board of County Commissioners. They hope to
select two firms and set up a continuing contract arrangement with those two firms which
will allow us to hire an Engineerto do dredging design and dredging permitting. The reason
they have not proceeded with design and permitting of Taylor Creek is because the Spoil
site has not yet been decided. When you permit the dredging you have to permit the Spoil
site with the dredging because it is all one deal when you go to permit it and you have to
know where you are going to put the material or handle it before you go and apply for that
permit. This is why they have not been able to move forward with the design on Taylor
Creek. Once the Spoil site is selected this will allow them to proceed and hire an Engineer
and get the final design and permitting done. (Please see attached copy of Taylor CreeklC-
25 Canal Restoration Project Status Report).
~
Commissioner Maryann Bryan asked if the Navigational Channel goes to the Rail Road
trestle or further west. Mr. West referred to a map (please see attached copy) and stated
that they actually intended to dredge to the Indian River Lagoon spillways. Mr. West stated
that the reason they are evaluating these areas behind the two spillways is because of
concern that it would come right back after being dredged, so they are trying to keep that
from happening. Mr. West stated that they have a commitment from the Water
4
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
May 23, 2000
Page Five
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Management District to try and take steps to alleviate that problem. He stated that one step
would involve coming in a removing material and also making modifications behind the
spillway. Commissioner Bryan stated that she was asking because at the last City
Commission Meeting a gentlemen came and made a proposal to ask the FEC about raising
those tracks. She stated that she encouraged him to also come and talk with the County
and the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee because of using Taylor Creek as a
Navigational Channel. Chairman Johnson asked if Mr. West's department would be
working very closely with the Water Management District on that. Mr. West stated that yes
it would be his department. Mrs. Hearn wanted to know if her understanding that the
permitting would come after the purchase of the property was correct and if there would be
a preliminary approval of permits. Mr. West stated that when you permit a dredge project
part of the permit process is to identify were the Spoil will be put. You have to know were
it will be put and how it will be handled before you can even apply for the permit. Mr. West
stated that you cannot permit the dredging without having a Spoil Site, so both have to be
done as one deal. Mr. West stated that the Spoil Site would be permitted with the idea that
it would be used for Taylor Creek but could also be used in the future for other projects on
an as needed basis. John Arena stated that some months ago he suggested using a mud
pump and pumping directly into trucks and asked if any investigation had been done into
using a system of that sort. Don West stated that he remembered Mr. Arenas suggestion
and stated that they would be discussing that subject later in the meeting. Chairman
Johnson wanted to know if the June update on the effectiveness of the Spur Jetty was
available and stated that she would come back to that subject, but wanted to discuss a
comment that Robert Anderson had brought up regarding the several different sites. She
stated that it was her understanding that the Army Corp. of Engineers had a whole lot of
input on the selection of that site. Don West stated that was correct, and that the Army
Corp. of Engineers were very strong in their recommendation of the Seminole site. Mr.
West stated that he wanted to clarify that with Mr. Anderson, because if you weren't at the
meetings and you read what is in the papers, you may not fully understand what was
agreed to. Mr. West stated that he was present at the meetings and Mr. Fletcher with the
Corp. of Engineers has had a lot of experience in actually implementing projects for the
Corp. He is their expert on how to put in the pipes and how to create the project and make
it happen, and he was very adamant about selecting the Seminole site, or at least
recommending that as their preferred site. Chairman Johnson asked if he took into
consideration the housing values and all of that. Don West explain that they did not have
all that information at that time only the seventeen sites located, and had not actually
evaluated the homes in that area. This was based purely on looking at it from the Corps.
perspective in terms of what would work best for the dredging operation itself. Chairman
Johnson stated that this just illustrates how the public is not, and by saying public meaning
those homeowners and people who live in that area and have a life there, are not
considered. Mr. West stated that this issue is now being considered before they make a
decision on this site or whether or not they buy it. Chairman Johnson stated that is because
The Seminole Site is it right now, and this is what causes the public to be so hurt and
disenchanted. Mr. West stated that if you look at it from a stand point of implementing a
project like that, often it is not understood how costly it can be to evaluate a site fully. For
example appraisals, environmental analysis and ground water analysis and looking at the
homes, when looking at all these factors. Mr. West stated that they looked at seventeen
sites and did a broad analysis and that cost $25,000 to look at basic details and the cost.
Mr. West stated that they are spending another $50,000 or $60,000 to look at a site and get
every single detail about it that they possibly can. It is very expensive, to do this on all
seventeen and then make a decision. Chairman Johnson stated she was not saying to do
all seventeen. Mr. West stated that there really is a lot to it and a lot of detail and its hard
to catch all the detail up-front. Robert Anderson asked about the different agencies
'-'"
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5
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
. May 23, 2000
Page Six
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involved and if anyone had the figures of those agencies, which he stated he has asked
for before, on what they are putting in. He stated that he asked and asked and asked on
how much South Florida Water Management was putting in and how much the Corp. was
putting in and how much everyone was putting in, so he has it in his file. Mr. West stated
he could provide that for him and stated that the Water Management District has committed
500,000 for the Taylor Creek project. They have also committed another $500,000 to the
work behind the spillways. Mr. West stated that is committed in writing and there will be a
contract that will be approved by both parties, but at this point we only have a letter from
them that says that they are committed to that. Mr. West stated that St. Johns Water
Management District has committed $188,000 to the Taylor Creek project and the Florida
Inland Navigation District has committed $100,000 for the Taylor Creek project through a
letter awaiting approval of the contract. Mr. West stated that they are talking with the
Florida Ports Council about Taylor Creek and they have indicated that if they will support
it they can fund up to 50 % of the cost of the project. Mr. West stated that they plan to
apply to the Ports Council in the next several months and are working on a application now.
Robert Anderson asked for a copy of the figures committed by the different agencies and
commented on a comment made by SK Patel at the last Fort Pierce Harbor Meeting
regarding his statement that no one had complained about the Upland Spoil Site in their
back yard. Mr. Anderson stated that it would be in his front yard and that he would have
to look at it every time he opened his front door. Chairman Johnson asked what the
interest was on the part by the St. Johns and F.I.N.D. She asked if they wanted to dump
something there. Don West stated that they were interested in the Taylor Creek project but
not necessarily in the Spoil Site. The St. Johns Water Management District drafted a plan
for the restoration of the Indian River Lagoon. It is called the Comprehensive Management
Plan for the Lagoon. Mr. West explained that one of the key goals in that plan in terms of
restoring the Lagoon is dredging and silt removal which is called restoration dredging,
therefore they support this project purely from an environmental stand point. They also did
the project at Crane Creek and Turkey Creek and the whole reason they did that was to get
the silt out of the silt traps to keep it from going out into the Lagoon where it can harm the
grass beds. Mr. West stated that this is why they are really glad to see the County
committed to it, and regardless of what happens to the Spoil Site they wants to see Taylor
Creek get dredged out because they are concerned with the silt. Chairman Johnson asked
if there had been any progress on the "point-source". Mr. West explained that it has not
been talked about much but that it was being done through the Corp. of Engineers Restudy
and one of the big issues is how will we stop the sediment source from going into the
canals, and how we will implement the Restudy which will be a very big undertaking. It is
a thirty billion dollar project. Chairman Johnson stated that she brought this up because
she feels that these kinds of things need to be brought to the attention of the public so the
public can understand. She stated that after the deal came up with The Seminole Site that
she and Maryann were talking after a meeting and she felt that your pouring all this money
down a black hole when you don't do what it takes to stop the "point-source". Chairman
Johnson stated that she is pleased to hear that and is truly encouraging Mr. West and his
office to continue in whatever aspect his office or engineering can do to keep the
Commission updated, so that they can dialog going and money flowing. Jeanne Hearn
asked if the FSTED funding would come before the Commission or if staff would have the
authority to just apply for funding. Don West explained that it is a typical application and
would have to go before the Board first before being submitted. Bill Lesh'e asked Mr. West
what F.I.N.D.'s interest was in C25 and also what Florida Ports Councils role would be in
the Taylor Creek project. Mr. West explained that the FSTED group, the Ports Council,
sees the Taylor Creek project as a infrastructure element of the Port and the Spoil Site
particularly. Mr. West stated that they would apply for Taylor Creek to see if they were
willing to help with that. They mayor may not consider the Taylor Creek project as an
'-
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6
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
. May 23, 2000
Page Seven
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element of the Port but they would consider the Spoil Site to be an element of the Port,
because it would be used for the turning basin and the inlet. Mr. West stated that the
Florida Inland Navigation District generally supports project throughout the coast of Florida
that are dredging related. Their philosophy is they have to dredge the intercostal waterway
on a regular basis just like the Corps comes and dredges the inlet, and anything they can
do to stop the silt and sediment from getting out into the intercostal waterway is a big help
to them. They see it as a preventative measure and they are a funding partner in it. They
also own a Spoil Site further north up from Harbor Branch. They have indicated to us that
they mayor may not want to use the Upland Spoil Site because they have another site in
the area, but they would support the project purely from the stand point of preventing the
silt from coming out into the intercostal waterway. Chairman Johnson stated that she was
glad that he clarified their intentions. Chairman Johnson ask Mr. West if he knew the
money value that they intended to commit. Mr. West explained that the way F.I.N.D. works
is that they fund projects in stages. They would not give all the monies in one allocation and
at this point they have agreed to fund $100,000 in design and permitting and have also left
the door open for us to come back and ask for construction funding. Robert Anderson
asked how F. I. N. D. can be involved when JoAnn Allen is a board member of F. I. N. D.,
and when she will be the one that will have to be dealt with when buying the Seminole
property. Mr. Anderson stated that she is also the one to talk to about getting funds for.
Her boss told him on the phone that he has told her and told her not to be telling people
stuff like that. Mr. Anderson stated that this sounds like a conflict of interest to him. Don
West stated that she would probably abstain from voting because the F. I. N. D.
Commission functions just like the County Commission, so she could certainly abstain from
voting on it. Chairman Johnson asked if she was still on that board. Mr. West explained
that she was on the F. I. N. D. committee for another term because she just got
reappointed. Mr. Anderson commented that in other words she got inside information that
was needed for the Seminole Site. Chairman Johnson stated that it makes you wonder
that they have talked about that too.
~
5.
Update by Charlie Bicht on New Dredging techniques "Black & Veatch"
Mr. Bicht explained that after a presentation to the Commission by Black & Veatch he
received a call from a company in Pennsylvania called mobile dredging and they explained
that their process was similar to The Black & Veatch process. Mr. Bicht explained that
there is competition out there. Black & Veatch states that they have a patent on this
process but that there may be other processes out there that could get the same result
without following there patent. Mr. Bicht explained that the process he is presenting is not
the Black & Veatch process but one that he went to see in Boston. Mr. Bicht passed out
a packet of information which he went through page by page. (Please see attached copy
of packet for entire presentation.) After the presentation Mr. Bicht explained that this was
a very interesting process and one that we really need to consider.
'-"
Jeanne Hearn asked if The Black & Veatch quote came in before this new company came
in or is that being kept. Mr. Bicht answered that he has not seen anything. Mr. West stated
that Black & Veatch has decided that they do not want to release cost figures. Robert
Anderson asked what the depth was that they could go. Mr. Bicht stated that they were
dredging to 10 feet and they geared their dredge size toward their lake depth and
production schedule. Jeanne Hearn asked when the RFP for other companies would go
out. Mr. Bicht explained that they are looking to design the process first so that they can
go out for the actual process. Mr. Bicht stated that Taylor Creek could be dredged without
the use of a Spoil Site and they could use a couple acres of Harbor Pointe and accomplish
the whole process. Chairman Johnson stated a couple acres of Harbor Pointe and stated
7
· Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
May 23, 2000
Page Eight
\..,.
that the Water Front Councils concern is to make sure that none of that is toxic and she
stated that is still their concern. Mr. Lesh'e asked if there had been any preliminary
indications on what this type of process will cost. Mr. Bicht stated that he did not talk to
them about cost because different conditions exist between what they were doing and what
we need done. Mr. Bicht stated that he was sure that the dredging process may be a more
costly process but you're off setting the cost of a Spoil Site and the cost of pumping a great
distance, and the possibility of using the Spoil as an end product, so there are a lot of
different aspects to look at. Chairman Johnson asked if the consultants would decide the
size of the dredge. Mr. Bicht stated that what they are looking for from the consultant would
be for them to specify what we've got and the depth size and so forth, time frame and end
result. Jeanne Hearn asked what time frames they are anticipating before we could have
Taylor Creed dredged. Mr. Bicht stated that if they got the consultant on board and
designed they could get an RFP out within six months if everything worked well. Don West
stated that actual construction would probably be about a year before you actually break
ground. Robert Anderson asked if they lost the permits that they got for dredging Taylor
Creek. Don West stated that the Board of Commissioners abandoned those and agreed
to go after a full permitting process.
6.
Other Business
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Chairman Johnson asked Robert Bradshaw if the meeting in conjunction with the City on
May 8th took place and if there was any movement. Mr. Bradshaw referred the question to
Don West. Don West stated that they tried to set a meeting this week but Mr. Bell was not
available and that they were trying to get in touch with him now to set something up for the
following week. Chairman Johnson asked if that was the reason the May 8th meeting did
not go. Don West stated that since Mr. Bell lives far away they have to schedule around
him. Chairman Johnson stated that she was pleased to hear that they are including him.
Jeanne Hearn asked what the status was of the Berth Permits and how would it be decided
to utilize or not utilize them. Will that be decided by staff or would it be a Commission
decision. Don West stated that there were two up for renewal and he was unsure which
ones but that they are working with Terry Lewis's office to help get those renewed. Mr.
West stated that a sea grass survey was just completed and sent in to the Department of
Environmental Protection. Jeanne Hearn asked how we would utilize the permits with Mr.
Bell. Robert Bradshaw stated that they would sit down with Mr. Bell to discuss this and find
out his level of interest regarding the permits. Mr. Bradshaw stated that the County has
taken the position to go ahead and pursue the renewal on them. Jeanne Hearn stated that
she understood that but was asking if staff would have the privilege of dealing with Mr. Bell
or if whatever he wants he gets. Mrs. Hearn stated that it was her understanding that at
previous Commission meetings and past Harbor Advisory Committee meetings, that these
permits are very valuable to us and this would be a means of determining what transpires
there. Mr. Bradshaw stated that he didn't think that staff would act laterally on this, of
course it would go back before the Board for any type of movement on them. Mrs. Hearn
ask if there had been any type of discussion about the value in them. Mr. Bradshaw stated
not to his knowledge no. Mrs. Hearn stated that she hoped they would retain their value.
Chairman Johnson asked about the Sea grass survey. Don West stated that the
Department of Environmental Protection requested this as a part of the evaluation of the
permit extensions. Mr. West stated that the last survey was based on six years ago, so
they ask us to update it and get a new survey so they could evaluate that for extension of
permits. The County hired BCI Engineers to do that work and it was recently completed and
forwarded, so the permits are not in hand yet but it is in the process. Chairman Johnson
asked if he knew what it said. Mr. West stated that he did not but that he would provide a
copy of the survey to the Committee members. Chairman Johnson stated that yes she
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
May 23,2000
Page Nine
would like that provide along with a summary. Chairman Johnson asked if anyone had
information on the Ports Council Meeting. Mr. Bradshaw stated that he thought it was in
the first part of June in Port Canaveral and that County staff would be at Strategic Planning
so no one from the County would be able to attend but that John LaCapra had told him that
he would send or forward information back to the County from what comes out of that
meeting. Bill Lesh'e stated that the meeting was on June 12th and 13th. John Arena asked
about the Mud Pump that Don West stated he would comment on. Mr. West stated that
what he thought Mr. Arena was referring to was the tanks or containers for the dredging.
Mr. Arena stated that what he was referring to was a mud pump that could pump mud
directly into dump trucks to be carted off and these pumps are available right here in Fort
Pierce. There is a six inch model for rent. Mr. Arena stated that it would take that material
and pump it as is without adding water to it and put it directly right into a waterproof
aluminum body dump truck to be carted off and spread onto the land which would be a lot
simpler and a lot less expensive. Mr. Arena stated that he has discussed this before but
that no one has decided to rent one and try it out.
7. Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Roger Orr, seconded by Jeanne
Hearn, to adjourn, the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 4:24p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Melissa W. Stiadle
Recording Secretary
C: Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Philip Steel
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
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Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
August 22, 2000
Convened: 3:11 p.m.
Adjourned: 5: 18 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday, August
222000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex Building, 2300
Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
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Members not present:
Others present:
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Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Roger Orr, Esquire, City of Port St. Lucie
Jeanne Hearn
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
David Souza
Kevin Jackson
Dan Nelson
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Melissa Stiadle, Recording Secretary
Bill Lesh'e, Indian River Terminal Company
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
Robert Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Stix Nickson, St. Lucie Assoc. of Realtors
John Lesh'e, Ocean Towing Corp.
R. J. Lesh'e, Ocean Towing Corp.
Richard Carnell, Indian River Terminal Company
Heather Young, Asst. County Attorney
Dennis Beach, City of Fort Pierce
Emily Grande, Hutchinson Island
Charles Grande, Presidents Council, Hutchinson Island
Betty Lou Wells
Don McLam, SLC Recreation Manager
George Kavanagh
Shirley Burlingham
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
~ August22,2000
Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the May 23, 2000 Meeting.
It was moved by, Jeanne Hearn seconded by, Roger Orr to approve the minutes of the
May 23,2000 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
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Vice Chairman Gail Kavanagh stated that she had a point of observation and a question
on a point of order in reading over the minutes in content on page six. Gail stated is was
her understanding that this Committee was covered by the Sunshine Law and asked if that
was correct. Gail Kavanagh stated that if this is the case it states in the minutes on page
six "Chairman Johnson stated that she brought this up because she feels that these kinds
of things need to be brought to the attention of the public so the public can understand.
She stated that after the deal came up with The Seminole Site that she and Maryann were
talking after a meeting and she felt that your pouring all this money down a black hole when
you don't do what it takes to stop the "point source". Gail Kavanagh asked if this is a
violation of the Sunshine law. Chairman Johnson stated that she and Maryann were
standing right here and that she made the comment in the meeting also. Gail Kavanagh
stated that she was just concerned and has always been timid about discussing issues
without the Committee. Chairman Johnson asked Gail what her understanding was of the
Sunshine law and Gail stated that she would like it explained to her and stated that Roger
explains it well. Mr. Bradshaw stated that Heather Young represented the Committee and
would be able to explain. Heather Young stated that items that are going to be discussed
during the meeting that are on the agenda should be limited to discussion during the
meeting. She stated that if an item has already been decided upon or discussed you can
discuss it afterwards. Heather stated that she did not attend the meeting in question
therefore she is unable to determine whether the Sunshine law was broken. Heather stated
that it would be best to refrain from comments and keep comments to the recorded portion
of the meeting. Heather stated that committee members really need limited comments with
each other on items that the committee is going to discuss at the public meeting. Chairman
Johnson stated that it was not an agenda item.
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Jeanne Hearn stated that it was her understanding that if a Commissioner for instance
received correspondence they would have to make it relevant which she did at the meeting
she made reference to what their conservation was she stated that as long as it is reveled.
Heather Young stated that is a way to get around the judicial nature of some of the things
that Commissioners my deal with when it is a zoning matter or something like that. Jeanne
Hearn asked if that would have eradicated it. Heather stated that what Ms. Kavanagh is
referring to is something that happened after the meeting. Gail Kavanagh stated that it was
a conservation that happened after the meeting. Chairman Johnson stated that it was not
this meeting either. Heather stated that if the committee received something that will effect
the vote on an issue that is coming before the committee it would be appropriate to disclose
it.
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3.
Public Comment
Robert Anderson asked Don West if the survey was in on the study of the spur. Don West
stated that they have not received information on it yet. Chairman Johnson asked Mr. West
if he had any idea when the survey would be in. Don West stated that he had no idea but,
would check into it.
Robert Anderson asked if Mary Morris of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation
Commission would be at todays meeting. Robert Bradshaw stated that she was the last
item on the agenda and that she would be in to discuss Manatee Issues. Mr. Bradshaw
also stated that Don McLam with the County would be in attendance to answer questions
on the Manatee Protection Plan.
Shirley Burlingham stated that she is not a fisher person but had knowledge that the
problem of dock launching space in the County is a real issue. She stated that new docks
where to be put in place at Little Jim Bridge and are now on hold. She stated that she
attended the meeting with F.I.N.D. at the Radisson on February 19 th when they brought
up the Manatee Protection Plan. She stated that she is wondering why the County did not
go ahead with their Protection Plan knowing that all of these grants would have to be put
on hold. Mr. Bradshaw stated that someone would get Don McLam to answer her
question.
Don McLam explained that the Boating study is done and the Marine siting study will be
finished in November. Currently Mary Morris, with the Manatee Protection Committee is
here talking with County staff about putting the total plan together. Mr. McLam stated in
a newspaper article that the State had set aside $231,000 for thirteen coastal counties and
nine other counties to complete their plans. Mr. McLam stated that the County submitted
a letter about two weeks ago and the State has excepted that letter and it looks like we will
be getting a portion of that to complete our plan. Mr. McLam stated in reference to the
new Boat launch the Governor is not providing anymore submerged land leases. Mr.
McLam stated that we are building our ramp in the upland area so we are doing a dredge
and fill permit so it will not be a submerged land until we open it up to a waterway it will be
built in the Upland area. Mr. McLam explained that the Army Corp. of Engineers has
stopped us and all other communities from building anything connected to any kind of
Manatee water because of the a law generated by Save the Manatee Club. Mr. McLam
stated that they are suing the US Fish and Wildlife the Federal Fish and Wildlife and also
the Army Corp. of Engineers for failure to protect the Manatee to the level that they agreed
to do back in the 1990 when the Plan was put into effect. Mr. McLam explained that it is
not necessarily the submerged land that is effecting us it is the law suit by the Manatee
Club that is effecting our ability to move forward with a boat ramp. Mr. Bradshaw stated
that the County has been in direct contact with D.E.P. and the Army Corp. Mr. McLam
stated that we have also talked with Florida Inland Navigation District over the last two or
three years, which has committed over $250,000 every year to this project. Mr. McLam
stated that the County has a permit for the boat launch area from the Florida Department
of Transportation for a driveway and turn lane. The County also has a permit from South
Florida Water Management and all the permits are in order with the exception of the Army
Corp of Engineers. Mr. McLam stated that as soon as the permit is obtained the County
is ready to begin construction work. The planning, design work, and specifications have
been completed. The County is ready for the Army Corp of Engineers permit. Mr. McLam
stated that construction can begin thirty days after the permit is obtained. Mr. McLam
stated that the County has gone to the extent of making the County dollars that were put
into this program extended even further. The County applied for a grant through U.S. Fish
and Wildlife for exotic removal. The County received $22,600 to remove the exotics along
the birm on the southern part of that piece of property. Mr. McLam stated that there's quite
a few Australian pine trees and some peppers and that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife is going
to match the County 50/50. They will be removed and the property will be re-vegetated
with natural vegetation, basically between the retention pond area and high birm that
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protects that property from the mosquito control area. About 4 ~ acres of Australian pine
trees will be removed. The County is mixing and matching as much as we can, hopefully
to get it accomplished. Mr. McLam stated that it should be really nice once completed.
The four ramps are going to be floating docks. There will also be tie-up areas, bathrooms
and sidewalks. The County just needs to get the Army permit to begin.
The question was asked where the uplands area is located. Mr. McLam stated that it is
located right across from Little Jim's Bridge on state property. The County has a long-term
lease with the State of Florida State Parks Systems for fourteen acres. Once you go over
Little Jim's Bridge and turn around to the right hand side, it's going to be located in the
open field area. The County is going to carve in a cove. The boat will actually go into the
cove area and not out into Shorty's sloot. You'll be able to back up, turn around and drive
out into Shorty's Sloot. When you put the boat in the water it's not going to be like North
or South Causeway Island. It's going to be similar to Morris Creek or Black Pearl where
you put your boat into semi-calm water. It will be designed so that it has enough flush to
get any debris out and to take it back out into the waterway rather than boxing it up into
the boat ramp area. Mr. McLam stated that the County has Taylor Engineering out of
Jacksonville, Florida, which is an excellent company, for boat design and redesign. They
have been working on the scope of service for the County and have completed everything.
4.
Update by Dennis Beach on joint City/County Meeting regarding Port consultants.
Dennis Beach explained to the Committee that on August 2nd the City of Fort Pierce Commission and
the County Commission met for the purpose to interview potential consultants for a development plan
for the Port Property. Mr. Beach stated that they are currently scheduling a meeting to rank the four
firms that interviewed. Mr. Beach stated that there is a meeting scheduled for August 28th for the
County Commissioners to talk with some of the stake holders of the property Port. Mr. Beach stated
that after this meeting he hoped to have a date for a meeting to rank the firms and start negotiations
with whomever is ranked number one. Mr. Beach explained that requests for proposals and initial
discussion on what the scope of that work might be is outlined in the request for proposals that went
out to the engineers and is available to anyone who would like to get it through the City or the County.
Chairman Johnson asked which Department she would need to go to for a copy either at the City or
the County. Mr. Beach explained that she could obtain a copy at his office at the City of Fort Pierce.
Robert Bradshaw stated that the County could provide a copy to the Committee members if they would
like a copy. Jeanne Hearn asked if the four put anything in packet form or information. Mr. Beach
stated that they had very specific proposals or statements of qualifications which outlined their
experience and what they had done previously relating to this subject. Mr. Beach stated that their
documents related primarily to who they are, where they are from and what type of experience they
have. Richard Carnell asked Mr. Beach if he would prefer to withhold his recommended ranking until
after the 28th or is it something he would want to share with us. Mr. Beach stated that he has talked
with different Commissioners and has a general idea as to what their rankings would be but stated that
this process really needed to be a joint decision between the City and County Commissions. Chairman
Johnson asked if recommendations and ideas could be done in house in regards to Port development.
Mr. Beach stated no that the expertise just does not exist in this County its just not at the City staff level
or the County staff level do we have the type of background or expertise to make this come together.
Jeanne Hearn asked if the cost of the study was round $300,000. Mr. Beach stated that the cost of
the study would be determined by the scope of services that are negotiated and that scope of services
is going to depend on what we want to be accomplished. Kevin Jackson asked if the property needed
to be sold before they have an surveyor come in an study about it before that. Mr. Beach stated that
it is not a good idea to use the figure $300,000 or $250,000 or any figure because we don't have a
figure and if we keep saying that it will go into the media about what this is going to cost. Mr. Jackson
stated that what he trying to say is that the property needs to be owned by the City and the County
before they send a man in to study that. Mr. Beach stated that you have to determined if it is feasible
before you do it. Mr. Beach stated that they have to determine if there is a development plan that can
be implementated where it would make sense for the City or the County or anyone else to acquire all
of that vacant property. Mr. Beach stated that they do not know at this point and time that it is in the
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best public interest or if it makes financial sense to do and so on and these are the things we need to
know before we do it. Roger Orr asked what keeps this from being a rehash of the studies that have
been done in the last twenty years. Mr. Beach stated that he hoped that there would actually be an
implementation strategy with this and maybe different approach to doing it. Mr. Beach stated there was
a Port Master Plan conducted in the late eighties and is a technical and legal requirement of the state
of Florida. It is unrelated to any type of implementation strategy and has to do with Concurrency and
Development issues. Mr. Beach explained it has everything in the world other than implementation and
the reason the Port has not evolved is largely because of the community's inability to set a direction
for itself. Mr Beach explained that land ownership is another issue. There has been a number of
issues why it hasn't gone full and the work they are proposing to do right now should not be that same
process. Chairman Johnson asked if there where any other comments of questions.
5.
Shailesh K. Patel, BCI Engineers, to review St. Lucie County FSTED Application for Taylor Creek
Project funding; Presentation of Hydrogeological Exploration of the Upland Disposal Site
(Seminole Coastal Property), Presentation of Final Report for the Taylor Creek Restoration
Project.
Mr. Patel introduced himself to the Committee members. Mr. Patel stated that he was asked to join
the meeting by Robert Bradshaw and the County to make a presentation on three aspects that they
are working for, towards the Taylor Creek Restoration Project. The first one is the sediment
characterization study they had been done as a sub-consultant to Williams, Hatfield & Stoner. The
second one is the assessment of the direction of the ground water flow at the Seminole site which was
one of the sites that the Commissioner had asked to proceed with. The third one is the FSTED
Application. Mr. Patel stated that they are trying to go through the Florida Ports Council to secure
funds towards the dredging of Taylor Creek.
Mr. Patel stated that he would like to start off with the sediment characterization report and will be
happy to answer any questions now or later on. Mr. Patel would like to clarify in the report of the
restoration project. In the report there are three areas identified. The first reach going from the
western limit from the intercoastal waterways navigation channel from 100 ft. wide to 140 ft. wide. This
was done previously before BCI Engineers came onboard. BCI Engineers has asked the Army Corp
of Engineers to confirm whether this is a federal navigation channel or not. As BCI Engineers shows
previously in their 1998 report there is about an average of 6 ft. of sediments that are already in that
navigation channel. The second reach goes from the FEC Railroad all the way to the C25 canal
structure and then there is a submerged fixed structure in the F1 canal. Reach three goes from the
fixed structure at F1 all the way to the North canal where there is another spillway and then about a
1000 ft. back. Originally the scope asked for them to go up to 1000 ft.. Because they could not find
access in certain areas they decided to go close to the 25th St. Bridge. Mr. Patel stated that when BCI
Engineers got into the process South Florida Water Management District was trying to get additional
funding close to $500,000. Taylor Creek Restoration Dredging Project starts on the western side of
the Intercoastal Waterways all the way up to the F1 spillway 1000 ft. to the west and C25 1000 ft. to
the west of that. BCI Engineers was asked to determine the sediment characterization and the water,
chemical, and physical characteristics. The final aspect was the material disposal options. Mr. Patel
stated that based on the previous data BCI Engineers had in 1998, they contacted FDEP in Port St.
Lucie and spoke to Bruce Cherner about it. BCI Engineers informed Mr. Cherner that they were getting
additional data and that this is what they recommend. Mr. Cherner agreed. BCI Engineers collected
seven to nine sediment samples and equal quantity of water samples. What you see is the depth of
muck where they took composet samples going from surface to the bottom. All samples were located
using what is known as a global positioning system so they could go back if they had to and locate the
exact location in the water body of where the samples were taken. Mr. Patel stated that the State of
Florida has no regulations for sediment upland disposal. Mr. Patel stated that there were concerns
previously regarding the land, residential, and industrial clean up goals. He said that they normally
don't use those in comparison to sediments but in this case, since the people wanted it, they would give
a list of those goals for residential and industrial. After looking at the data they have, Arsenic is about
the only one that exceeds those rules. Arsenic for the residential site was elevated. In a previous
report Arsenic levels were not detected. Mr. Patel stated that just because Arsenic was not detected
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previously and was this time does not mean the reports are wrong. Mr. Patel clarified that in certain
areas you will find the Arsenic and in some areas you will not. Mr. Patel stated that one of the things
they use in testing is the toxicity characteristic leaching procedure. This is used mainly in a landfill to
look at the acidic water that leaches out and what are the implications of the leaching. When this
testing was done on two of the samples most of the components were below detection limit except for
lead. When the lead was detected and it was compared to the limit allowed it is lower.
Delores Hogan-Johnson asked at what depth the samples were taken. Mr. Patel stated that these
were composet samples taken from reach 1 to S1, depth composet samples 7 ft. to 13 ft.. It is about
a composet sample of 6 ft. of muck.
Charles Grande asked if the reach 2 S8 site mercury level is well over the limit. Mr. Patel answered
by saying yes. Mercury 1.5 is above the limit. When the previous testing was done again they did not
see that. This is what FDEP will use to say more sampling is needed or that they feel that this mercury
level may not have based on the characteristics of the material any significant impact. This is for FDEP
to determine. Charles Grande asked if the level of Mercury is over the limit is that not a signal for BCI
Engineers to do more extensive testing to determine if this is an overall pattern. Mr. Patel stated yes
and that they always recommend additional testing when they see some hot spots which is at an
additional cost. At this level, because of samples and data points that they have taken, they would
rather FDEP come back and say they feel that it is a concern and that BCI Engineers need to give
FDEP more data points.
Jeanne Hearn asked how it could be over the detection limit if there is no limit listed on the other side
of the chart where there are blanks and if it's automatically given a clearance if it hasn't been detected.
Mr. Patel responded by saying that not all perimeters have limits set. They can not test every element
that is available. Detection limit is set by the instrument.
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Delores Hogan-Johnson asked about the average level taken with the samples. Mr. Patel stated that
the samples were taken at different levels up to minus 12 ft. Bill Lesh'e asked if there were seven
samples taken and over what distance were the samples taken. Mr. Patel stated that yes there were
seven samples and based on the previous 1998 study there were several samples in the navigation
channel, several samples in isolated locations, and then muck samples. The intention for this is a
restoration project not a navigation benefit. The FAC only has about a 3 ft. clearance. So they want
to take out muck. Once you dredge the material and you do not do a good job at it, it is going in the
intercoastal waterways.
Bill Lesh'e asked how long the project is. Mr. Patel stated that it is about 6,000 ft., a little over a mile.
Levels of the samples of water will be taken by the FDEP and they will look at what the implications
are and what are the probable effects on those and all other issues. The sediments in the water are
acting as a sink. Delores Hogan asked what the S7 reach is. Mr. Patel stated that S7 was above the
spillway. S5 is above the C25. Mr. Patel stated that potential sources for this is from the two canals
draining into the spillway. When the permitting process happens they will be looking at those issues.
John Lesh'e asked if the groves, highways and roads spill off into Taylor Creek. Mr. Patel stated yes
and that the north canal brings in a lot of it. When FDEP reviews this they will look in the permit
commission for source control, where the material is coming from and what is being done about it.
Richard Carnell asked if FDEP has veto control of the project. Mr. Patel stated that it was his
understanding that FDEP is the governing agency over all. There are four other agencies that have
input as well. Richard Carnell then asked at this point whether or not FDEP has given the green light
to this particular project. Mr. Patel stated that FDEP has not reviewed data. Richard Carnell asked
when they anticipate FDEP approval or denial. Mr. Patel stated that is contingent upon the permit.
FDEP looks at data with the permit in hand.
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Richard Carnell asked if Mr. Patel had stated a number of months ago that the material in the turning
basin was consistent with the muck material in Taylor Creek and that the turning basin was
characterized as a catch basin for the material for Taylor Creek. Mr. Patel stated that he did not
believe that it was consistent, but that he may have said that the Army Corp had indicated that the
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turning basin has more of the fine fraction. Because of the depth it is probable that once the water
goes down with the low system the particles will begin to settle out. Richard Carnell asked if it would
be Mr. Patel's opinion that the material in the turning basin is probably originating or a portion of it from
Taylor Creek. Mr. Patel answered by saying "perhaps". Richard Carnell asked Mr. Patel if he was
aware that the turning basin needs to be supplementally dredged. Mr. Patel stated that he has had
conversations with Bill Lesh'e. Mr. Patel's understanding is that the Army Corp didn't finish all the
depths that they said they were going to do and there were problems with boats turning around.
Richard Carnell asked if the dredging at Taylor Creek would increase the flow of material into the
turning basin. Mr. Patel stated hopefully not. It is a restoration project. If it is dredged would it
contribute more to the turning basin, Mr. Patel's answer at that point would be no because they are now
cleaning up the traps and hopefully the traps will be available for the material. Richard Carnell asked
if it wouldn't make sense to do the turning basin at the same time that your doing the Taylor Creek
operation to eliminate any increase into the turning basin. Mr. Patel stated that it would all depend on
the cost. If the dredge that is there is capable of taking care of the projects other than Taylor Creek
then the County may want to consider that. Richard Carnell stated the turning basin would be dredged
at no cost to the County because it is a Federal navigation project. So wouldn't it make sense to
coordinate the two projects? Mr. Patel stated that it makes sense to coordinate. Richard Carnell asked
if the source was not cut off before dredging Taylor Creek would it cause problems for the turning
basin. Mr. Patel stated that the material would move into the turning basin if the source was not cut
off. Mr. Patel stated that if traps were set up in Taylor Creek so that there would be easy access, in
the future, if quick maintenance dredging needed to be done without losing material into the turning
basin. Roger Orr asked what does the dredging at Taylor Creek do to the velocity of water it goes
through. Mr. Patel stated that in most cases the velocities should increase but it is not always the case.
It depends on the integrity of the design of the channel.
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Betty Lou Wells asked why there is no S4 on the chart. Mr. Patel stated that there were more sediment
samples taken than water and that's why it's missing. Richard Carnell stated that the DEP letter
attached to the County's application indicates regardless to the source the hydro-dynamic conditions
of the port, ICWW Taylor Creek Inlet and Reefs are largely unknown and must be carefully studied
before further action is taken regarding changes to the bottom in this area. Richard Carnell asked what
studies have been done to the extend that we have discounted DEP concerns so that we can go
forward with this project. Delores Hogan-Johnson stated that she would like to comment on concerns
that she has regarding point source, going back to develop, culture, cattle, etc. She stated that the
whole point source issue needs to be dealt with. Delores Hogan-Johnson asked ifthe soot was coming
from the sand that's coming through. Richard Carnell stated that the source is in part Taylor Creek.
The County's concern is that the project was a "cart before the horse" issue. Richard Carnell stated
that Mr. Patel is not done designing the project, Don West has indicated that they have not done any
additional studies despite DEP's letter, and we our in the process of an FSTED application sitting with
the Florida Ports Council that was done on an emergency basis and yet this Taylor Creek project has
been out there for four years. Delores Hogan-Johnson stated that one of the things that needs to be
emphasized is that Taylor Creek has acted as a trap to stop a lot of that stuff. We dredge it enough
so that it can be a trap again. So now they are intentionally setting up areas that it can intentionally
be caught. Mr. Patel stated that that was a correct response. No engineering has been done as of
yet. Once the muck has been taken out of the deep pockets you now have sinks for suspended
matter. If you take your best management practices, take care of some of the sources, will we dredge
again in the next forty years. Maybe not. Mr. Patel stated that FDEP has a letter that shows that a lot
of the sea grasses, the resources that we've been trying to protect, trying to get the muck out of,
they've seen three to eight inches of fine grain according to that letter. Material that has deposited
which they did not see in 1998 or 1999, now they see that coupled with the fact that sea grass went
from 100 meters wide down to 8 meters in some areas. Richard Carnell stated that he is commenting
on why St. Lucie County submitted an emergency application for FSTED funds for this project. This
has been a three to four year process and fail to see what the emergency is in 2000. Secondly, as
Roger Orr pointed out the velocity of the water is going to increase. Everybody in this Committee
knows we've had terrible difficulties in getting maintenance dredging performed and what we see is
the velocity in the water increases, and it's going to run downhill with material in the turning basin. We
are then going to back two years from now, somebody's going to study it, we aren't going to have an
upland site, we can get it dredge, there's a County Commissioner Resolution out there that says that
\.-
7
\....
we can't go offshore, it just snowballs. It's unfortunate that somebody is not looking at it as a complete
project. One effects the other. Someone should be in touch with the Army Corp so that it can be
pulled together. It appears that there is a supplemental dredging of the turning basin that must occur.
You want to dredge Taylor Creek. Somebody should figure out what the source is or be fairly satisfied
that we can stop the flow of material, or inhibit the flow of material, or reduce the flow of material to the
point where it is not creating a problem or you are going to spend taxpayers dollars all over again ten
years from now. Mr. Patel stated that Richard Carnell's points are valid but that's more of a political
issue here than a technical. Jeanne Hearn stated that John LaCapra came to town one day with
money dangling from the Ports Council which is what created that rush to apply for funding. It was
approved at a commission meeting at 7:00 p.m. and the application deadline was at midnight that night.
Jeanne Hearn stated that she thinks it's a critical situation that we are applying like that without
understanding the repercussions of those funds and we just do it.
~
Robert Anderson stated that he wants to know about the research study from the 1998 Taylor Creek
report. Mr. Patel stated his presentation is on the study that BCI Engineers did recently. The research
study is not here because I am only here to present the year 2000 report. Jeanne Hearn asked if the
samples were taken in the same areas. Were they GPS readings also? Mr. Patel stated yes. Mr.
Patel stated that the Reach 1 area from the intercoastal to the FEC, previous study was done, identified
90,000 cubic yards in there. Reach 1, the same area, north and south of the defined navigation
channel. Reach 2 from the FEC to the C25 spillway, 80,000 cubic yards which was in the previous
study. Interestingly enough, in the F1 fix to the F1 spillway, the sediment surface samples were sandy.
There was no muck sediments found. When you go behind the Reach 3 F1 spillway 1,000 ft., there
was about 5,000 cubic yards, and on the C25 there was 10,000, adding up to about 21 O. We were also
surprised that we got the water depths going as deep as about 15 ft. With the big storms, perhaps a
lot of the material isn't being trapped but it is being pushed over. We come up to an estimate of
210,000 cubic yards of material that needs to be taken out from this project area. Disposal options are
stated based on the technology we have available. It will all depend on the final cost. That is basically
what the report contains. The sediment, the water, chemistry, the physical characteristics, the
volumes, and the disposal options. There is still a lot of work to do. Based on the letter in the FSTED
application, you have 3 to 8 inches of sediments, you have lost a significant amount of sea grasses.
The main message is we have done enough sediment characterization, argued enough about every
point and element in the water system, if the trend is continued chances are we are going to loose the
resources we've been trying to protect. Richard Carnell asked if DEP's position needs to be carefully
studied before any action is taken. Jeanne Hearn asked if she could get a copy of the letter from DEP.
George Kavanaugh asked if anybody has check the area above the navigation area that has already
been dredged to see if any material has settled on the sea grass. Does anybody know what the
consistency or the physical attributes of that material was as opposed to what's in that sediment? Mr.
Patel asked when the dredging occurred and is not aware of the dredging. Robert Anderson asked
if anyone has heard from the Commission meeting for the Harbor Town Marina. Robert Bradshaw
said that they have had no contact since. Charles Grande stated that based on the results of the
sampling in 1998 and the mercury results that were taken this time wouldn't that mandate any upland
disposal site would require lining. Mr. Patel stated that FDEP would have to determine that. He does
not know what the mandates are on a liner and really can't comment on that question. Mr. Patel stated
that this is the starting point and is trying to get everyone's opinion on what's the right thing to do. You
do the feasibility studies by saying how many dollars it's going to cost, you look at what funding
sources you have available, can you go after them right, take advantage while you can. The next step
would be to do an engineering study of the design, what are we actually going to take out, what are
the proposed pipelines, what is the disposal. When you have all that information that is when FDEP
will say you have a complete permit application. We know what the permit questions will be and we
will be able to answer them. Jeanne Hearn asked where we were with the spoil site. Mr. Patel stated
that he would not comment on that until he receives the NOAA report from Terry Nelson. Mr. Patel
stated the Army Corp had indicated that they would pull out if the expenses were too high. They will
go to a site which is more economical for them. Mr. Patel stated that the total project cost would be
$1.4 million. In FSTED it was requested at $700,000. It is indicated that there is matching funds of
$750,000. Broken down from South Florida $500,000, Indian River Program $130,000 and the Florida
Inland Navigation District $100,000. When added you get the $730,000 plus the $700,000 requested
from FSTED to total the $1.4 million. Confirmation has been given that the application was received
~
8
~
by Florida Ports Council. They will notify BCI if there are any problems. Mr. Patel said that his
understanding is that sometime in September they will meet to make the determination on which
projects can begin. Bill Leshe stated that on August 1st there was an agenda request. The funding
sources are different from what was applied for. Is there any reason why the funding sources changed
from the time this application was filed to when the agenda request was submitted? Don West stated
that at the same time the application was filed he was in the process of preparing an invoice for St.
John's for work done to date. The grant contract for St. Johns is now closed out. St. John's was only
able to credit $115,000 under the grant. Don West stated that is the difference. Mr. Patel stated that
all the money that has been spent has been included in the amount. In conclusion to the presentation,
Mr. Patel stated that the application is in, BCI Engineers is waiting for the Florida Ports Council to get
back to them on their comments, and then they will wrap it up from there.
Mr. Patel stated that the St. John's Water Management District has taken charge of the material
movement. They anticipate by the end of October to have the disposal site cleared and empty for next
years dredging, which should begin December 1. Mobilization of the dredge and pipeline installation
will begin November 1. Mr. Patel stated that 80% of the material has been removed.
6. Discuss RFP for Dock Lease Agreement for the North Dock on South Causeway Island.
Robert Bradshaw stated that everyone has a proposal in the Committee packet, it's out, and is on the
Internet. It's called Demandstar. There have been direct mailings, one gambling ship, the Rachel B.
Jackson, Andrew Kablenski, a group out of Stuart that has a 98 ft. trawler that might be interested.
Robert Bradshaw stated that he has asked the Board of County Commissioners to bring it back to the
Committee for a recommendation report. Robert Bradshaw stated that he expects to have the
information before the next meeting.
7.
Mary Morris, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission invited to discuss Manatee
Issues.
'-'
Don McLam introduced Mary Morris to the Committee. Mary Morris stated that the Governor said that
there would be a tabling of decisions on any new facility that didn't have an approved Manatee
protection plan, which was something directed by the 1989 Governor and Cabinet. It wasn't a mandate
but each County was given the charge to come up with a Manatee protection plan, as part of that plan,
come up with the best place for setting new boat facilities. For a number of reasons, it's been in St.
Lucie County sort of a challenge, we haven't always had the resources to do that. In the last couple
of years we have gotten some funding to help address that so we are presently contracting work to do
boat facility setting and there is a meeting with Jody and Don today on a contract to help write the
actual Manatee protection plan document that would go before the County Commission within a year
and a half. Mary Morris stated that there will be an announcement by the Governor of press
conference on Thursday, where he will be saying what he intended. There has been meetings with
DEP which actually issues permits for new boat facilities, the Water Management districts which have
some responsibility for that, and the Governor's office on what was intended by increased Manatee
protection. Right now the Governor sits as one of the persons on the cabinet, as one of the votes, for
approving any leases for any permits that come to them through having to have a state submerged
land lease. A majority of permits are coming to the DEP and the Water Management districts. So
there are a lot of projects being reviewed at that level. Mary Morris stated that her agency which does
the Manatee reviews act as the commenting agency to DEP. They are no longer a part of DEP. The
Governor's office is trying to figure out what authority they have and what their position is and whether
his statement will reflect what they do as the Governor and Cabinet or whether it pertains to other
agencies which have executive directors apart from the Governor or Cabinet and make those level
decisions through their executive directors. Mary Morris stated that as of right now business is as
usual.
~
8.
Other Business
Chairman Johnson introduced Kevin Jackson, new committee member appointed by Commissioner
9
· .
Doug Coward to the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Board and ask that he introduced himself and tell the
committee a little about him self. Mr. Jackson introduced himself by stating that he is the International
Longshoreman Association President dealing with cargo for 30 some years. He explained that he has
been working on the docks since he was seventeen years old and Is presently working on the dock in
Port Canaveral. He stated that he is here to try to get some ideals together and see if we could work
things out and get our port going so that he will not have to travel all the way down to Port Canaveral
and also to create jobs and such for this area. Mr. Jackson stated that he is glad to be on the
committee and stated that something needs to be done about Fort Pierce with all of the stores moving
to other areas and try to bring things back into Fort Pierce. Chairman Johnson stated that she
appreciated his comments and thought that it helped the Board to have a cross section of opinions and
representations. Chairman Johnson stated that at future Harbor meetings she would like to discuss
the concerns of the Longshoreman and of those whom have concerns about the impact of cargo.
\-
Roger Orr stated that he does not feel like his time is being utilized and would recommend to the
County that this Committee be disbanded. Jeanne Hearn stated that the Commissioners do want the
FPHAC to be more informed and issues to come before the Committee first. Richard Carnell stated
that he recommends the application be withdrawn because it was improperly submitted as an
emergency without public contribution. Delores Hogan-Johnson asked if the Committee wanted to
issue a recommendation regarding the $700,000 grant.
9. Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Roger Orr, seconded by Kevin Jackson, to
adjourn, the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 5: 18p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
~
Sandra L. Hood
Recording Secretary
C: Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Kevin Jackson
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Roger Orr
David Souza
Jeanne Hearn
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
\..,
10
\."
Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
September 26, 2000
Convened: 3:08 p.m.
Adjourned: 5:32 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday,
September 26, 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex
Building, 2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
Jeanne Hearn
Kevin Jackson
Stix Nickson
David Souza
\...-
Members not present:
Dan Nelson
Others present:
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
John Arena, Earth First
Robert Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Charline Burgess, Assistant to County Commissioner Coward
Richard Carnell, Indian River Terminal Company
Commissioner Doug Coward
Jim David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control District
Jim Egan, Marine Resources Council
Sandra Hood, Recording Secretary
George Kavanagh
Gerald Kuklinski, St. Lucie Waterfront Council
Bill Leshe', Indian River Terminal Company
John Leshe', Ocean Towing Corp.
Kaisaimari Lind
John McDonald, Sr., Resident Ft. Pierce
Roy Orjala
Mark Pollio, Ft. Pierce Tribune
Marge Thomas, St. Lucie Waterfront Council
Betty Lou Wells, Conservation Alliance
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Heather Young, Asst. County Attorney
'-'
1
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
~ September 26, 2000
Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the August 22,2000 Meeting.
It was moved by, Jeanne Hearn, seconded by David Souza, to approve the minutes of the
August 22, 2000 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
Delores Hogan-Johnson stated that she had a question regarding the dredging on page 7,
of the August 22, 2000 meeting minutes, and could the source come from the Heffelbower
dredging. Bill Lesh'e stated that he thinks that the source is more closely tied to an
operation on the Harbor Point property several months ago. The equipment that was used,
was stuck, and created a vast amount of build up in the area. Delores Hogan-Johnson
stated that on page 9 that the disposal site needed to be clarifyed as Taylor Creek.
3.
Public Comment
'-'
John Arena stated that we have a specified deepwater coral formation, located in front of Ft. Pierce.
He feels this area could be a terrific eco-tourism draw. He has located a tour-submarine that would
take passengers out and down to look at the coral banks.
Robert P. Anderson stated that questions asked in previous meetings regarding the spur jetty were not
answered. He wanted to know what the results were and what the benefits are. Robert Bradshaw
stated that the study is in-house and that it is going to be on the agenda for next month's meeting. Don
West will be there to provide copies of the report prepared by the Army Corp of Engineers. Robert P.
Anderson asked if a bid had been submitted for Taylor Creek or when the dredging will begin. Don
West stated that at this point, they still have to design and get permits for the project before they begin
to solicit bids.
Bill Leshe' stated that he was recently made aware of an action that has been taken by the St. Lucie
Waterfront Council against the County. Robert Bradshaw stated that he received a fax regarding an
administrative court proceeding on the permitting process the County is going through for one of the
berth permits. He said that was all that he knew right now and that he would get Bill Leshe' a copy of
the fax.
Gerald Kuklinski stated that his personal feelings regarding the Dock Lease Agreement for the North
Dock on South Causeway Island are as such. He thinks this should be assigned to the Rachel B.
Jackson. He feels this is the opportunity to permanently assign a spot for a tall-ship, instead of a
gambling ship, which we already have.
'-"
Robert P. Anderson asked what was paid by the Rachel B. Jackson last year when it was here. Robert
Bradshaw stated that it was less than $250.00 for the entire season. The percentage that came back
to the County was $1.00 per paying customer.
2
, Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
September 26, 2000
Page Three
'-'
4.
Presentation by Jim Egan, Marine Resources/Scientific Survey - Shipping Effects on the Indian
River Lagoon.
Jim Egan introduced himself to the Committee. He gave a presentation on the scientific study done
on the shipping effects of the Indian River Lagoon. Jim Egan stated that the Waterfront Council and
the Marine Resources Council, both contributed for an independent researcher, a graduate student at
the Florida Institute of Technology, to undertake a scientific survey, under the guidance of Dr. John
Windsor of the Florida Institute of Technology. The intent of the survey was not to steer anyone into
making an opinion, or a conclusion. It does not contain FIT, the Marine Resources Council, or the
Waterfront Council's official position on the subject. Jim Egan stated that the survey is a combined
collection of the scientific information that was available over the two years of collection, which
consisted of over 200 studies. The short conclusion section was the only creative writing in the
document except for summarizing what the scientific data themselves said. The advisor, Dr. John
Windsor, was there to ensure that the student was using valid scientific studies, not overlooking any,
and at no time was the student given the idea to go one way or the other with the findings.
Jim Egan highlighted certain areas throughout the document that he felt were important. The areas
included the Invasive Species, Dredging Impacts, Emissions from Vessels, and Economic Viability.
All information can be found in the summary of the study packages given to each Committee Member.
\...
Jim Egan stated that in conclusion, the author expressed his opinion, based on the scientific studies
he had been looking at. The author stated, "Because existing deep water ports will continue to attract
most of the vessel traffic for economic reasons, there is no economic incentive to expand smaller ports
along the Florida East Coast. Impacts related to expanding smaller ports are also inconsistent with
the needs of the rising tourist industry and the commercial and recreational fishing industry in Indian
River Lagoon. A long-term management strategy more compatible with these uses, would be for
smaller ports to capitalize on the natural features of the Indian River Lagoon, and concentrate on
natural resource based recreation opportunities like water sports, fishing, boating, and river cruises."
Gail Kavanagh asked what constitutes the $400 million a year in revenue on one of the slides and
whether or not it was for the Indian River Lagoon or one of the other ports listed. Jim Egan stated that
$400 million was in reference to Laguna Madre in Texas. He also explained that an acre of sea grass
is vital habitat to over 9,000 fish. Of the 9,000 fish inhabiting that area, the economics associated with
recreational and other use of that resource would equate to over $10,000 per acre. The figure keeps
rising and has been recently as high as $14,000 per acre. We have about $700 million dollars a year
worth of economic benefits that are derived from a healthy lagoon. If we improve the health of the
lagoon, we could actually get another $700 million in resources out of it. If we compromise the health
of the lagoon, we can easily compromise the current $700 million but also undermine about $2 billion
dollars in waterfront real estate.
~
Stix Nickson asked if there had been any case studies of human health hazards related to toxic
organisms and if so where are they. Jim Egan stated that in the Chesapeake Bay area, there have
been 278 extensive studies done on human health effects. In the report itself, it should talk about the
dangers of invasive species coming in. Stix Nickson asked if any of the studies had been done in the
Indian River Lagoon, in the Ft. Pierce area. Jim Egan stated that the scientists made the decision that
every study applies to the Indian River Lagoon. Stix Nickson stated that the studies seem to project
a very gloom scenario and were there any positive studies. Jim Egan stated that the positive benefits
of having a port in our area has not been shown to have an impact on the environment. Stix Nickson
stated that he would like to get together with Jim Egan to share some issues that he has researched,
that present a different opinion and side than what is being presented.
3
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
September 26, 2000
Page Four
'-'
Kevin Jackson asked about the conclusion of the study from the graduate student. Jim Egan stated
that the conclusion was of the student's own opinion, but it was also the conclusion of the Urban
Harbor Institute.
~
Richard Carnell asked if the Indian River Terminal Company is a smaller or a larger port. Jim Egan
stated that he could not answer the question, as if there was only one potential answer to the question.
Reading the actual study, it talks about each port and talks about the depths of the port and the levels
of the activity that goes on. Richard Carnell asked if Jim Egan knew the level activity of the Indian
River Terminal Company to the point where he would be able to say whether or not it is a smaller or
a larger port. Jim Egan stated that the levels of activity, based on the report, associated with the ports
listed, you might read into it that Ft. Pierce would be a smaller port. Richard Carnell asked what the
date was of the study. Jim Egan stated that it was released in April 2000. Richard Carnell asked Jim
Egan if he was aware of the emission studies on the effect of outboard motors on the lagoon versus
cargo ships and the fact that the emissions from outboard motors cause more damage than the current
amount of cargo ships that come in and out of the Indian River Lagoon. Jim Egan stated that he was
aware, and world-wide there is a large percentage but it is not relevant to our area. Richard Carnell
asked if Jim Egan was familiar with the current State and Federal regulations governing ballast water.
Jim Egan stated that he was and just recently the regulations had been changed to try to get the
vessels to change the ballast water out in the deep water. The difficulty will be enforcing it. Richard
Carnell asked if Jim Egan was familiar with the study currently performed by NOM, regarding the
analysis of the offshore dredge activity. Jim Egan stated that this report did not cover that, because
at the time of this study, NOM's study was still ongoing and wasn't available. Richard Carnell asked
if it wouldn't be more prudent in terms of analyzing the effects of any dredging activity to wait for
NOM's report. Jim Egan stated that NOM's study, though it may show very good or very bad about
Ft. Pierce, should not contradict what is understood about the physics of material being dropped into
deep waters.
Jim David stated that as long as there is shipping, there is a risk. The sea grass in Indian River is
primarily a storm water runoff problem not a port or inland dredging problem at this point. All of the sea
grasses were practically destroyed when the inlet was reduced in its capacity, in the mid 1970's. Jim
David stated that we have lost 75% in this area and we have recovered a huge amount of that since
the reef and inlet have been managed differently. Jim David feels that if you stopped every ship from
coming into the port, the organisms would not stop coming into the United States. It is a National port
problem that everyone has to deal with and it has to become an important part on how we manage
both our coastal fishery's and coastal fleets. Jim Egan stated that it is important to point out that every
comment that Jim David made is consistent with the study and isn't contradictory. Jim Egan stated that
storm water runoff is believed to be about 80% of the impacts and a large section of the study talks
about the storm water impacts.
5. Consider RFP #00-088 to enter into Dock Lease Agreement for the North Dock on South
Causeway Island.
Robert Bradshaw stated that in the packages, there are two respondents to the RFP's for the North
Dock on South Causeway Island. Also included, was a short comparison between the two
respondents, the Rachel B. Jackson and the motor vessel entertainer. The Committee indicated in the
last meeting that they wanted this issue to come back before them, and after consideration, for the
Committee to make a recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners.
~.
Jeanne Hearn asked about the installation of the berth and pilings, whether or not there is any cost
factor available, and how much improvement in dollar value that entails. Robert Bradshaw stated that
in the proposal, it seems that they would absorb the cost, but he does not know what the figures are
4
but will find out.
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
September 26, 2000
Page Five
\....
Delores Hogan-Johnson asked if Robert Bradshaw knew when this recommendation was to go before
the County Commissioners. Robert Bradshaw stated that it was contingent upon the action taken at
this meeting.
Jeanne Hearn stated that she has concerns as far as the educational aspect of the area with the new
Smithsonian display and the present Historical Museum. She is concerned about people coming into
the area intoxicated and while students are visiting the area. Jeanne Hearn stated that she has
concern on turning our back on the Rachel B. Jackson. She understands from the Smithsonian that
they were very helpful to them in doing research, letting them use the docks, and they also worked at
the Historical Museum on rainy days in support. The Rachel B. Jackson is an educational vessel.
Jeanne Hearn stated that she would also be concerned about how this is going to be monitored.
Stix Nickson stated that the Rachel B. Jackson is a fine vessel, but if we are looking at the overall good
of the county and its residents, he sees a big disparity between the two. The integral part of this, is
the improvements that are going to take from the revenue. Robert Bradshaw responded by quoting
from the CSL proposal, "In considerations of the improvements to be made by SureBet, the County will
credit the cost of all pre-approved improvements, which are agreed to and accepted by the County,
against all rent due to the County."
David Souza stated that the Rachel B. Jackson would be a better fit for the County, money aside, than
a gambling ship offshore. He thinks it would be more of an asset in the long run than the other ship.
\....
John McDonald stated that the gambling ships are mostly cheating people out of money. He suggests
that if the County chooses a gambling boat, a stipulation be set, holding the boat owner liable.
Richard Carnell stated that either proposal might be in conflict with the existing Port Master Plan, and
that the County may be supporting the views, which is in direct competition with the Indian River
Terminal Company. David Souza stated that he thinks the County Commission and their
representatives should be responsible for handling this. David Souza feels that they are only asking
the Committee for an advisory on which way the County should go with this particular situation.
David Souza made a motion to recommend the Rachel B. Jackson to the County Commissioners
Office for a dock slip. Delores Hogan-Johnson stated that there is now a motion on the floor that the
Committee recommend the Rachel B. Jackson and those being in favor ofthe Rachel B. Jackson being
recommended by the Committee, raise your hands. The answer being, four hands in favor, three hands
opposed. Delores Hogan-Johnson stated that the recommendation was to go forth with the Rachel
B. Jackson. Delores Hogan-Johnson stated that in light of the recommendation going forth, valid
comments had been raised, and they are worthy to be looked into by the County Commission.
6.
Consider RFQ #5025 Port and Waterfront Development
\."
Robert Bradshaw stated that Delores Hogan-Johnson has copies of four proposals. There will be a
joint City/County Commissioners meeting on September 29, 2000 to discuss and draft the scope of the
services. Jeanne Hearn stated that she is very confused on what is being studied. Robert Bradshaw
stated that this is at the request of the City and that the Counties agreed to participate to the extent
which they are at now. As far as financial mechanism's, or endorsements the County has not reached
that level yet. Robert Bradshaw stated that this is at the urging of the City of Ft. Pierce. The issue will
be discussed at the meeting on September 29, 2000. Richard Carnell stated that he understands the
Department of Community Affairs is coming out with a letter in the next seven days that will specifically
define the County's rule, as well as the City's rule.
5
, .
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
September 26, 2000
'-'" Page Six
7. Review Guide to the Sunshine Amendment
Heather Young stated that the Sunshine Law, as it pertains to committees and boards, is designed to
ensure that the decision making process occurs in the open and that the public has access to that
process. She stated that the important thing to remember is that you are prohibited to having
discussion, related to a matter, which is foreseeable that the Committee may take action on in the
future. If it's something that has already been decided upon, that discussion is permissible, but you
are looking at making sure that whatever goes into the decision making process happens in the open.
You are not allowed to have discussions between members of the Committee at public forums.
8. Other Business
Mary Anne Bryan asked if there is a possibility of closing the boat ramps permanently at the Manatee
Amphitheater area that are closed part of the year. Robert Bradshaw stated that he did not know but
he would check into it. Mary Anne Bryan stated that at the last meeting there was talk about new boat
ramps and asked if the County was pursing it. Robert Bradshaw stated that the County is pursing it.
The County is working with the Manatee people, to have them review the permit again, and if they
approve the permit, the County will resubmit it back to the Corp and hopefully get it approved.
~
Jeanne Hearn stated that part of the problem about not having facts regarding the Port of Ft. Pierce,
is because we do not have a Port Director and we do not collect facts on private enterprises. Jeanne
Hearn stated that the community would be very interested to know what the facts are but private
enterprise has the right not to tell us the facts. Richard Carnell stated that the Port Director in St. Lucie
County is Doug Anderson. Jeanne Hearn stated that in a previous Harbor Advisory meeting, Doug
Anderson was asked directly if he was Port Director, and he did not indicate that he was. Two years
ago, Doug Anderson was interim Port Direct but she has never been at a meeting where that has been
confirmed. Heather Young stated that the Florida Legislature abolished the Port & Airport authority and
all duties of the authority were transferred to the Board of County Commissioners. Heather Young
stated that there is not someone designated specifically as the Port Director at this time.
9.
Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, seconded by
Jeanne Hearn, to adjourn, the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 5:32p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sandra L. Hood
Recording Secretary
CC:
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Kevin Jackson
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
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Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Stix Nickson
David Souza
Jeanne Hearn
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
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Minutes of Meeting
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
October 24, 2000
Convened: 3:12 p.m.
Adjourned: 5:03 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee was held Tuesday, October
24, 2000 at 3:00 p.m. in Conference Room 3 of the Administration Annex Building,
2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Members Present:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Gail Kavanagh, Vice-Chairman
Jeanne Hearn
Kevin Jackson
Stix Nickson
David Souza
Members not present:
Dan Nelson
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan, City of Fort Pierce
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Others present:
Robert P. Anderson, Resident St. Lucie County
John Arena, Earth First
Robert Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Commissioner Doug Coward
Jim David, St. Lucie County Mosquito Control District
Bill Leshe', Indian River Terminal Company
John Leshe', Ocean Towing Corp.
Marge Thomas, St. Lucie Waterfront Council
Betty Lou Wells, Conservation Alliance
Don West, St. Lucie County Engineering
Heather Young, Asst. County Attorney
Douglas Anderson, County Administrator
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
October 24, 2000
Page Two
Agenda
1. Roll Call:
Roll Call was taken.
2. Approve Minutes from the September 26,2000 Meeting.
It was moved by, Jeanne Hearn, seconded by Stix Nickson, to approve the minutes of the
September 26, 2000 meeting. Motion carried unanimously.
3. Public Comment
Refer to Section 5 in Minutes.
4.
View Galveston Bay Conservation & Preservation Association video entitled "Container
Ports: Lessons from Long Beach"
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The Committee viewed three videos. One from the Water Front Council on the Galveston
Bay Conservation & Preservation Association entitled "Container Ports Lessons from Long
Beach". Jeanne Hearn stated that the Board of County Commissioners recommended that
the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee members view this video. Stix Nickson asked
which Commissioners made this recommendation. Jeanne Hearn stated that she could not
recall but that it was brought up at a Commission Meeting. Robert Bradshaw stated that
the recommendation was made for the board to view the video and they referred it back to
this Committee to look at first. Stix Nickson asked which Commissioners were involved with
it. Robert Bradshaw stated that he honestly did not know but that it was the general
consensus of the Board to bring it back before the Committee first.
The second video viewed was brought in by Committee member Kevin Jackson. The video
was promotional regarding Port Canaveral.
The Committee also viewed the promotional video for St. Lucie County.
After viewing the three videos discussion ensued of differing opinions from the public and
Committee members on each film. The views ranged from an environmentalist perspective
to support for cargo development at the Port.
5.
Other Business
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Doug Anderson stated that he had items to report on and wanted to report about the
erosion happening at the beach and what is being done to try to keep it from getting worse.
Mr. Anderson stated that the County had originally received an allocation of funds several
years back to buy the property at the port from the McArthur foundation which never
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occurred. Mr. Anderson stated that three years ago he went to the FSTED council and
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
October 24, 2000
Page Three
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stated that they could have the money back for other port projects. He explained the way
FSTED works is if a port has money set aside for a project and they are not ready to go
with the project and there are other projects that other ports want to go ahead with then
they can reallocate that funding. Mr. Anderson stated that it has taken three years to finally
allocate all the funding that we had set aside for the purchase of the property. Mr.
Anderson stated that the final funding was reallocated at the last FSTED meeting and he
had to give them the final ok to reallocate it to other ports and now that account is zeroed
out. Mr. Anderson stated that it was also agreed that if we have projects come on board
that the Florida Ports Council would be supportive in allocating funding for future projects.
Mr. Anderson stated that he submitted an application to FSTED for Taylor Creek for
$700,000.00 which is 50% of the project. Mr. Anderson stated that the project is not
scheduled to begin until July 2001. Mr. Anderson stated that FSTED approved that
application being forwarded to the various state agencies. Mr. Anderson stated that he
received a letter sent to FSTED from Indian River Terminal protesting the County applying
for that money. Mr. Anderson stated that Bill Leshe of Indian River Terminal spoke at the
FSTED meeting and that the letter from Indian River Terminal was also forwarded with the
County's application to the agencies.
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Mr. Anderson stated that he had received a phone call that we had lost significant beach
material on south causeway island. Mr. Anderson stated that the County and City Public
Works departments along with the County Public Safety department inspected the South
Causeway island and beach. Mr. Anderson stated that in one day we lost up to twenty feet
of beach front. Mr. Anderson explained that high tide tonight would be around 6:30p.m.
with another high tide around 6:30a.m. and stated that we are expecting higher than normal
tides. Mr. Anderson stated that the latest weather forecast received after lunch stated that
this is to worsen and that the winds would pick up even more tomorrow and Thursday. Mr.
Anderson stated that after taking all of this into consideration, at 11 :30a.m. this morning we
declared a local state of emergency and have notified Tallahassee of the state of
emergency. Mr. Anderson stated there is concern about losing more beach and has
notified the Sheriff's office, Fire District and the Police department. Mr. Anderson stated
that all departments will be meeting out at the Beach on site tomorrow morning at 8:00a.m.
Mr. Anderson stated that he had planned to get six hundred and fifty truck loads of sand
from the City of Fort Pierce, but that after analyzing the sand it did not pass to be beach
quality sand and cannot be used. Mr. Anderson stated that since this sand is unacceptable
we would have to purchase sand from the two private sand mines in the County and are
obtaining prices from them now. Mr. Anderson stated that by declaring this a state of
emergency that the State should pick up at least 50 percent of the cost and stated that he
has contacted Congressman Foley's office to see if we could get the Federal Government
involved. Mr. Anderson stated that they are doing everything that they can and that all
County Beaches are closed until further notice because of the strong currents and debris
washing up on shore. John Arena asked if the sand that was already there was beach
quality sand. Mr. Anderson stated that it is beach quality sand and that the Department of
Environmental Protection issued the permits for that sand which is the process needed for
the sand that needs to be replaced. Robert Anderson stated that it seems like about every
year or two we have to spend this kind of money on the beaches. Doug Anderson stated
that the beach renourishment was a long time coming and that this is very unusual weather.
Jeanne Hearn stated she is concerned that if we where to get a serious hurricane that the
beach renourishment would not hold up and we would be over the hill for sure. Mr.
Anderson stated that a hurricane is in and out of here but that this is just constantly
battering for at least two weeks now. Mr. Anderson stated that he is convinced that if we
hadn't done the renourishment that it would have been a lot worse situation right now.
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Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
October 24,2000
Page Four
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Robert Anderson asked if the FSTED funding on Taylor Creek was set up for July. Doug
Anderson stated that their budget would begin July 1 , 2001. Robert Anderson asked if that
price included the amount for keeping water in it. Doug Anderson stated that the total
project best estimate was 1.4 Million and that it included dewatering. Robert Anderson
asked if there would still be a need for the Seminole Site. Doug Anderson stated that if that
method worked there would be no need for the Seminole Site for that purpose. Stix
Nickson asked Doug Anderson whether or not he was the interim Port Director and asked
for his position on that matter. Doug Anderson stated that he was just filing in along with
Robert Bradshaw since the County currently has a vacancy for the Port Director and it is
his responsibility to fill in when there is a vacancy. Mr. Anderson stated that when there is
a Director position vacancy the responsibility falls back on him and Robert Bradshaw the
Assistant County Administrator. Stix Nickson asked if someone had a question for the Port
Director should it then be directed to Mr. Anderson. Mr. Anderson stated to direct the
question to him or Robert Bradshaw.
6.
Adjournment
Having no other business to discuss, it was moved by Delores Johnson, seconded by
Jeanne Hearn, to adjourn, the motion carried unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 5:03p.m.
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Respectfully submitted,
Missy Stiadle
Recording Secretary
C:
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee:
Delores Hogan-Johnson, Chairman
Dan Nelson
Gail Kavanagh, Vice Chairman
Kevin Jackson
Commissioner Mary Ann Bryan
Stix Nickson
David Souza
Jeanne Hearn
Douglas M. Anderson, County Administrator
Robert J. Bradshaw, Assistant County Administrator
Board of County Commissioners
Dan Mcintyre, County Attorney
Ray Wazny, Public Works Director
Don West, County Engineer
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