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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 01-17-2007 ST. LUCIE COUNTY RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING January 17,2007 Roger Poitras Building, Conference Room 3 2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, FL The meeting was called to order by Debra Brisson on 5:55 p.m. She asked if the board would like to elect a chair, or have someone serve as chair for this meeting, pending appointment of the two vacant board positions. Brad Keen made a motion to recommend selection of a chair wait until a full board is established. Kurt Holden seconded, all in favor, motion carried. Debra asked Brad to serve as the chair for this meeting if agreeable to the committee and he agreed to do so. Roll Can: - Members Present: Chester Woulard, Erik Martin, Kurt Holden, Brad Keen, Albert Scoggins Staff Present: Doug Coward, Debra Brisson, Linda Barton, Patti Raffensberger, Eric Jackson, Willie Redden, and Anthony Allen Guests: Tom Colucci, Treasure Coast Sports, Rick Gosser, USSSA, Jeff Montpetit, Pat Presutti, Buddy Ward, Dana Ward Adoption of Minutes: Brad asked for a motion to approve the minutes of January 17, 2007. For the record, Brad said the board had agreed not to hold a meeting in December due to the holidays. Albie made a motion to approve the minutes; Kurt seconded the motion, all in favor, motion carried. Old Business: Travel Baseball - Brad reminded everyone that this issue was thoroughly discussed at the November meeting but was tabled at the request of board members pending additional information. Debra said we were unable to have a representative ITom AAU at this meeting but did get some information from the internet. She claritied that the topic for discussion was baseball in St. Lucie County, not just travel baseball, and 3 or 4 issues ITom the Sports Policy adopted by the BOCC in January 2006. One of the issues from the policy is the 90/10 rule; the 2nd is the issue of instituting non-residency fees; another issue was ages and there was a motion made to lower the ages for baseball to 8; the tinal issue is youth baseball and whether he committee should recommend a change in providers. Debra thanked those people involved in baseball for being in attendance this evening to give their input and try to work out a policy that will work for everyone. Debra said staff has had several meetings regarding changes they would like to recommend to the Sports Policy. She read the recommendations of Recreation staff (as attached). It is staffs belief at this time that due to a shortage of youth baseball tields, the baseball community needs to decide an aftiliation for recreation baseball, be it Little League or USSSA, or some other organization. recommendation is that we uphold the policy and recognize 1 aftiliation for youth baseball in St. Lucie County. Brad said the difticulty with this issue is that each facility is geared toward a specific brand 0 baseball, i.e. Elks Park is Little League, Lawnwood is Babe Ruth. Debra said staff i recommending removing Babe Ruth as a provider because they are no longer active. She said Littl League has stepped in and is providing junior and senior leagues which covers ages 5-12, 13-15, and 16-18. Kurt said he thinks we still need to offer competitive, higher level baseball--travel baseball. He doesn't think it would interfere with Little League. Debra explained that the problem lies in that each of these leagues play multiple seasons at the same time, year round, but use different tield dimensions. EJ. said the tie Ids could accommodate the different dimensions, but bases and mounds have to be moved back and forth. Kurt asked if we have a location at Lawnwood for travel ball. E. 1. replied that we do not have tields with grass infields for travel ball. Debra said that at this time, another baseball tield, and possibly 2 softball fields, are not going to be built at Lawnwood due to the well tield protection ordinance and infrastructure issues. Brad said if Babe Ruth is no longer in existence that leaves an opening for another recognized user group. Debra said there was an error in the policy, that it was meant to grandfather in all the age groups now provided under Little League. Mr. Ward said he came before the RAB several years ago to get it changed. Brad said that RAB should recognize the fact that travel baseball is a viable program that we need to accommodate and the issue is how we provide the fields to both groups. EJ. explained that different age groups in travel baseball use different field dimensions that could not be accommodated at Elks. EJ. and Albie agreed that they could play on softball tields to accommodate the different distances at Lawnwood. Albie pointed out that they use a portable mound so they would not require rebuilding mounds. Albie stated that he didn't think Little League had the numbers to fill all baseball tields for a season for all age groups at Elks. Brad asked the RAB members for their input before public comment from the baseball representatives in attendance. Debra said some of the issues for staff are changing the tields to accommodate different dimensions, and the policy that exists, allowing 1 sports provider for each sport. Right now we only have 6 fields for the 5-12 age group. Debra explained that at Elks Park, one of the leagues is considering going with another aftiliation, so on the face of it, it looks like a simple solution is to give each group 2 tields. However, she said that over time, numbers may shift and then staff would have to deal with those issues. Albie said that travel ball is not a renegade league and said it would be the same as with soccer which is both competitive and recreational under the same umbrella. Albie pointed out that the TCSC is funded by the County and is recognized as the sports marketing anTI of the county. He thinks by recognizing only 1 brand of any sport we are hindering the TCSC ITom fultilling their mission. Debra said she did not agree with Albie's assessment regarding the TCSC and Tom agreed that the Sports Policy does not hinder their activities. Tom Colucci said the TCSC works in partnership with the County to bring in tournaments, etc. Debra said that the issue before us is how to provide for youth baseball. Kurt summed up his understanding of the issue as nothing more than a tield shortage. Debra agreed, and added that the other issue is different field dimension requirements. She said she has to defer to staff and Risk Management to see what they are comfortable doing to make the necessary accommodations. Debra said the advice we have received is that we do not want volunteers on the field moving bases and building mounds, and that fields should be set up for a season of something and should stay that way with no transfer between 2 different leagues on 1 set of tields. Albie said that would limit TCSC from bringing in a spring tournament during Little League season. Debra said that would come under our contract with TCSC. They pay for use of the tields, covering the cost of changing tield dimensions, if necessary. She said we would also have to receive approval from Little League because the fields are under their permit. Brad summarized the issue as the existence of multiple brands of baseball that have field dimension requirements different from Little League, and not enough facilities, make it difticult to accommodate another baseball affiliation. Brad said the BOCC Sports Policy that was adopted in January 2006 is a critical consideration to keep in mind throughout the discussion. He then opened the discussion up to the public. Tom Coluccisaid since the County had recognized AAU at one point, why couldn't USSSA till that slot. Debra explained that AAU was limited for ages 13-18, that the problem comes in on the dimensions for the 13 and under age group. Debra said 13-18 is not a problem; we can accommodate them right away because they use the larger tields. Tom said a strong Treasure Coast league could possibly bring in more tournaments, similar to what they do with basketball. Jeff Montpetit stated that we have 2 brands of youth football, Pop Warner and FedEx, one being a "travel" football league, very much like the "travel" baseball league that he represents, and that they play on 2 different size fields. Jeff said staff changes bases quite often, transitioning high school softball to men's softball and when Vinny ball comes to town, it goes from college and high school to men's softball in the evening and each are completely different. E. J. informed Jeff that high school and college are the same. Debra said that the bases are really insigniticant from EJ.'s and the County's perspective. Jeff insisted that they are significant. Debra asked E.J. if he would have to take out any grass and EJ. replied, not on the bases, just the mound. He said about 1-1/2' of grass had to be taken from the back of the mound and more clay had to be added. Debra asked if we have to change it back for Little League. EJ. responded that when we go ITom the 50' to the 46' pitching mound you have to reshape the mound. He said what JefT is talking about is going from a 43' rubber to a 53' rubber. The discussion continued. Jeff said he feels that there is a lot of emphasis being put on the fact that you have to rebuild mounds every time but if you're willing to make a small investment both groups can co-exist. EJ. said if he is talking about the system he brought to a meeting, he doesn't see that it's safe. Jeff said they have been using it in the City of Stuart for a year; there's never been an accident or a problem. He said he thinks it must be a matter of personal preference with us. Debra said she doesn't think we would want to classify it as a personal preference and EJ. said that safety is what he looks at, based on his experience at Elks Park Jeff argued that it is the same as the base plugs, that it's highly unlikely that anyone would step on the plug. Jeff suggested a demonstration of the mound on Softball 1 to see how it works before we make a decision on whether or not travel ball can co-exist with our current programs. He said baseball people are involved in both competitive and recreation baseball programs and it's a matter of the RAB and the County making the accommodation. Kurt said there were similar issues when he came in with FedEx football, but he said his concern is the schedule for Little League and travel ball on the fields. Little League uses the fields almost every night from January through the summer. There was a discussion of the months the fields are used by Little League. Jeff said the travel ball schedule is mostly on Sunday afternoons when Little League doesn't play unless they have a rainout and the according to Dana, it is a make-up day. Kurt said he would like to go on the record to say that he does not favor interrupting Little League in any way. Chester agreed with Kurt. Jeff argued that most kids play both; the possibility of co- existing is there, with a minor moditication. Debra said that in the past, travel teams have occurred after recreation ball but that's not happening now, the issue is that they want to play at the same time. Pat Presutti said the National LittleLeague does not have the numbers to play every night. He has 134 kids, Tee-ball to Sr. League and he will field 5 A-league teams. National Little League is planning to go to USSSA next year in an effort to open the boundaries and draw more participants. Debra asked if they had ofticially made the decision to change affiliations and he said they have not. Dana said her league does not want to change affiliations and would like to see American and National form one league, but the National League board won't do it. Pat said he is going to present it to his board again. Rick Gosser asked if USSSA could use the fields after July when Little League shuts down. Brad said that an agreement may exist between Little League and the County for use of Elks Park from January to August 1 st, the month of August it was shut down for the County to do maintenance, and then Little League had it from September through the end of November. Debra had an agreement between the County and American and National League that says Little League season goes from Feb. 1st to July 31 st. There was a discussion about fall baseball. Dana said it was cancelled for the last 2 years because of the hurricane damage. (Debra gave an update that the contract has been awarded to Hennis Construction for the renovations at Elks Park.) Staff will research agreements with the Elks Park leagues and bring back to the RAB. Rick said there are 2 fields not used at Elks for winter league. He would like consideration be given to USSSA to use those fields in the fall. Dana said their winter league runs from October 1 st to the week before Thanksgiving. Debra asked if the league would consider opting out of the fall season and have the County offer a different fall affiliation. Rick said they would offer it to every child in the County. Debra said ITom a maintenance perspective it would work easier to have separate seasons for separate affiliations. She suggested if the County is agreeable to conductings a pilot program and then evaluating it in a year or 2 years, it might be a good compromise. Dana said she does not have a problem with it if it does not interfere with her league. She said they are always fighting for enough fields and do not feel it is fair to have to give up fields for another organization. They would prefer they use them off- season. Dana said, however, that they would like to resume their winter season once the park situation is resolved. Brad announced the end of the public discussion. Albie said he understands the scheduling issues and the limited amount of facilities, but he thinks we have to consider that times have changed, we are serving a larger and more diverse community, and we have to offer more choices. He said he believes fields should be used by the most number of people, regardless of whether or not they are residents. Kurt said the only issue to the RAB is that the County has a contract with Little League about those fields. Little League said they would discuss the fall ball option with their board. We cannot solve this problem tonight until we are clear on the contract. Erik Martin said that philosophically he agrees with Albie in that we should try to accommodate as many groups as we can. He would like to explore ways to do that, to look further at the mound system, and the option of 2 different seasons. Brad said that historically, Little League baseball has served this community well. He said he would not be in favor of diminishing the Little League program to the extent that another league gains advantage. Brad added that he agrees with Albie that times have changed, that Little League is not the sole provider in our community or nationwide, and travel baseball programs are here to stay. Brad said it's a matter of scheduling and since that is part of the job of professional P&R staff, that should not be a difticult task. He advised board members and the public that there are issues of protocol involved, i.e., the established Sports Policy approved by the BOCC. In addition, he asked staff to research a document from when Elks Civic Group purchased the park and turned it over to the County for Little League baseball to make sure we are not in violation of any charter. Debra said we have already done that, and it is not limited to Little League. Brad said if a field is not being used, there's no reason why another group can't use it; it is just a matter of scheduling. There was a discussion about the requirement for leagues to submit schedules. Linda said we request it. Debra said we don't always get it in a timely manner. Anthony Allen added that we are not receiving schedules, background checks, NYSA certification, anything, in any timely way. Debra said she does recognize that leagues are accepting participants right up to the last minute so they don't always have complete information to make schedules. The policy requires schedules 30 days in advance. She said staff is working on that issue. Brad said leagues must have to take responsibility to block in their schedules. Debra said she is hoping to have software in use in the near future, which will help with this. Debra said she would like it noted for the record that we still have concerns about the mound system. We have been informed by Little League that they do not want us to put anything on their mounds during their season. We would like the opportunity to get further data on those issues and come back to the RAB with that. Debra also noted staffing considerations. She said that while 30 minutes to change mounds may not sound like a lot of time, it keeps us from performing maintenance elsewhere. Brad said he would like to see all parties cooperate to come to some agreement. Rick said USSSA would be willing to pay any fees to reconfigure tields so it does not become a burden to the County. Kurt made a motion to table this agenda item until the next meeting in order to research the Little League contract to determine the County's obligations. Chester seconded the motion, all in favor, motion carried. Kurt said that for the record, he thinks this issue needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. He asked staff to research items that need to be looked at, up to and including meeting with representatives from the leagues to try and come to a mutual agreement. He cautioned that there is standing protocol or agreements in place that the RAB cannot override and that issue will have to be addressed as well. The RAB will then make a recommendation to the BOCC to change or revise the existing policy to include whatever resolution is developed. Brad asked if there are any other items that need to be addressed. Debra said the 90/1 0 rule is the recommendation of staff per the current policy. There was a discussion of "recreation" ball and Debra said this is open to everyone in the County, vs. handpicked teams. Kurt said his recommendation still stands at 60/40 per the motion that was passed at the last RAB meeting. Mr.Woulard agreed to recommend 60/40. Erik wanted to know what entities to the north and south are doing. Albie said there is a wide range of policies. The discussion continued. Brad asked if there is any financial impact by going to 60/40. Debra replied that with regard to Lakewood Park the increased utilization by non-residents could require additional staff and maintenance. A discussion followed. Brad said the RAB stands by their past motion to recommend a 60/40 rule. Debra said the committee requested to address a resident/non-resident fee. Brad confirmed that the County has a non-resident fee in existence for programs and facility rentals for non-recognized user groups. Patti said that is true for our athletic facilities. There are no non-resident fees for community center programs but we do have them for the pools. Patti said we are planning to eliminate them at the Savannas. After discussion, the RAB decided not to entertain any further discussion on non-resident fees. Brad asked Debra to give an update on Lakewood Park and other projects: Lakewood Park is scheduled to open in April. We are still working on acquiring needed property for a de-cellane for the park entrance on Emerson. The park is looking good. Elks Park and Pepper Park Restrooms are under contract and a Notice to Proceed will be issued next week. At the Fairgrounds we are proceeding with a ventilation system at Adams Arena. We received drawings for the Fairgrounds oftice, restrooms, concession building, and are ready to go out to bid. Lawnwood soccer field's progress is being hampered by irrigation issues with FPUA. We are still trying to get permission to sink a well. The maintenance shed for Lawnwood is in waiting for FPUA and the City to determine what is needed for approval. Special Needs Shelter/Gymnasium is out to bid, bid opening mid February, permits due mid March, and we expect to issue a notice to proceed to a contractor by April 15. The splash parks for Open Space and Ravenswood are going to bid. The new Weldon B. Lewis Park is very busy. Spring Training for the Mets will soon begin and we are busy getting the stadium ready and making ADA renovations. Vinny ball begins on March 1 st with 311 games in 6 weeks. The skateboard park committee has decided to go with a plaza concept and moving forward into the design stages. Brad asked that a presentation be brought to the RAB next month. We are still trying to acquire a site for an ADA playground. South Causeway Island Park project is back on track as a joint project with the County and City. We are trying to acquire land across from Lincoln Park Community Center build a new community center. Mr. Woulard asked if anything was going to be done at Ilous Ellis Football Field. Linda said they put in for it but it was not approved. Brad asked when the BOCC Winter Retreat would take place. Patti said it's on January 30 & 31. Debra said we presented them with a list of projects not currently funded, including So. Causeway Island, Lincoln Park Community Center, and Lakewood Park Community Center. Debra said she is working with Bob Nix, Growth Management Director, on the possibility of doing an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan so we can start collecting funds to acquire park lands for active parks. Kurt made a motion to adjourn. Chester seconded the motion, all in favor, motion carried. The meeting adjourned at 7: 15 p.m. Respectfully submitted,