HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 08-09-2007
FORT PIERCE HARBOR ADVISORY CONNlnEE
Minutes of Meeting
August 9, 2007
Convened at 3:05 p.m.
Adjourned at 3:50 p.m.
This meeting of the Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee (FPHAC) was held Thursday,
August 9, 2007 at 3:05 p.m. in Conference Room 3 on the 3rd floor of the Administration
Building, 2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, Florida.
Memller. Pre.ent.
Mary Chapman, Chairperson
Jeanne Hearn, Commissioner Smith Appointee
Howard ConÞlin, ViceChqirmal1
Gerald KuÞlinsÞi, Commissioner Grande Appointee (Arrived @ 3:10)
Bill Thiess, Commissioner Craft Appointee (Left @ 3:30)
~~~
ROLL CALL
Roll call was taÞen.
Memller. AII.ent.
David Souza, St. Lucie Village
Commissioner Eddie Becht, City of Ft. Pierce
Councilman Christopher S.Cooper, City of P.S.L.
Pieter StryÞer
Alto Pre.ent.
Ken Shields, Indian River Terminal .Co.
Ken Roberts, Indian River Terminal Co.
Heather Young, SLC Assistant County Attorney
Bob Bangert
APPROVAL OF 'HEMINU'ES.
After a motion and a second, the minutes from the June 14,2007 meeting were unanimously
approved.
OLD BUSINESS.
Chairman Mary Chapman stated, "Word <:ame out thqt if you don't have a quorum you
wait half an hour. If you want to talÞ, just have the re<:order on but after half hour you
breaÞ up. That's a new rule that<1 have not seen enfor<:edyet." Ms. Chapman asÞed
Stephanie Bush if she had heard ofthe new rule, she said no. Ms. Chapman said. "It was
Veronica Torres at Smart Growth that said she had been told that it was the current policy."
Ms. Chapman announced the RFQ had gone out. There was a meeting about the RFQ a
weeÞ ago last Monday. Ms. Chapman said, "It WClS \)J0efully·unattended. I felt I had to be
there because we had sent the letter asÞingfortheRFQfor Harbor Pointe. I was
amazed at are the people who were going to respond to this, they only
Fort Pier<:eHarPorAdvisory Committee
August 9, 2007
Page 2
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2.~rditørrsppnd, didn't have any questions of the County officials. I thought that's what this
mr~ti~~/wassupposed to be about. It was disappointing because I thought they weregoi1'1.~
tqþe/~9Yil'lg, 'OÞ what did you mean by this on the RFQ? What did you mean bythgt?
Wh.ich/emphasis do you wqnt?' and I didn't hear that at all. Now that could be happening
Pehil'l(:!the<scenes. They're not required to do that in open session, it was an ADHOC
meeting.'!
Howard ConÞlin stated, "I received a call to serve on a committee to review the proposqls.
Then I got another call to cancel the invitation because staff was going to handle it
internaIlY.WÞ.~n are they going}o 100Þ at it, do you Þnow Heather?" Heather Young
answerrd, "TheY' 100Þ at it9fter the proposal deadline." Ms. Chapman replied, "The
propose(:!(:!egC;mne we heard WqS August 23'd." Ms. Young stated, "The review meetings are
open~o~hePublic. I would thinÞ it would be at least a weeÞ, if not two weeÞs after that."
Mr'99D~lip(; sÞed, "Do you haveqny feeling for how many proposals you expect?" Ms.
Young9oswered, "No I wasn't~that other meeting.·' Ms,Chqpl11an said, "I posed that
question directly and they said We haven't got a due. Willwe pegiven regular notification
on that?" Ms. Young said, "Wercan notify you. we ppst the notice of the selection
committee meetings but maybe Stephanie can update you." Ms. Chapman stated,
"Stephanie if you could Þeep tracÞ of it and just let this group Þnow." Ms. Heam asÞed who
was on that committee. Ms. Young did not Þnow.
Ms. Chapman stated, "In a City meeting recently, Bell·s approqch to get a charrette of his
own, that he would pay for himself, was turned down five to zero. I figured we Þnew which
three WOI..dd be against it but I wasn't sure atgll aboLlt the()~he.rtwo. It was five-zip I was
really gratified. So that's probably it for the Port for the moment:·
MS'1--I79rn stated, "Well, it would be unfortunate if there's value lost with the economy IiÞe it
is..lt's/ul1fortunate that people that were interested in selling did not sell. The economy the
wq~ritjs could be a domino effect on tourism. There·s a lot to beF9nsidered when yqLl taU:~
about the economy. I've always wished that Mr. Bell would become very, very wealthy,
which he had the opportunity. I don't ~now how much that might change here and that's
unfortunate. "
Ms. Young stated there are many different ways to evaluate for projects. Ms. Chapman
Qnnounced the full RFQ was posted on the web.
Ms.ChQpman stated, "I've only got one pie<:e ofinformatiqn tqday and it's not directly
relevonfto this group, yet it is. There was a majqr lawsuit reg.qrding wetlands and it haçl to
do with a paper mill. It had wor~ed it's way through allthe courts in Florida and was
turned down, appealed, turned down, and appealed agqin. Ws reached its final step it was
turned down. They wanted to continue using the exPerimentg[ Permit to essentially deplete
the wetlands and put stuff through them that was not helpful. The new D.E.P. guy is the
one that was responsible for that. That should put to death the whole wetlands question for
the moment. That came up heavily under environmental Advisory and we had develqpers
coming in saying, 'We've got to be able to deple~é the wetlands and your statutes locally.are
in contradiction with the State'. My position was yeah, but the toughest rules of all are
Federal."
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
August 9, 2007
Page 3
Ms. Hearn stated, "Many of you probably saw the new idea for a billbo.ard floating around.
This happens to be in Palm City right now, but we certainly are susceptible here to have our
lagoon site polluted. There are people that have advertising that payjor a proper license or
whatever he might need to be towing this thing around in case of an emergency. I would
liÞe to see this group go on the record to oppose this and encourage the Ci~ and County. I
have talÞed to D.E.P.. They're researching it in Tallahassee to see if it comes under their
department but, since it's moving, they doubt that it does. Billboards have been an eyesore
on highways and Scenic America has worÞed on that aspect and I'd just hate to see the
Indian River Lagoon looÞ IiÞe that."
Mr. ConÞlin stated, "Since it's down there, we may benefit from what th~y do. In the sense
of, they pass an ordinance, we can get a copy of it and simply recommend St. Lucie County
adopt it. Hopefully we'll be able to piggybacÞ onto whatever they do:'
Ms. Chapman asÞed what the next step would be. Ms. Hearn replied, ¡'I'm one to not let
something get out of hand and then all of a sudden we have a big enforcement issue or a
retroactive thing. Once it pops up, it could become very active, very quicþly. It's not an
expensive endeavor. People pay great fees for advertising on their property with billboards.
just thinÞ it's unfair business practice until it's regulated."
Ms. Chapman said, ill thinÞ that's a very appropriate issue for this group. On a slightly later
date perhaps we would write a letter from this group supporting some sort of ordinance
against them."
Ms. Hearn stated, "The other thing that I wanted to raise was I'm concerned that certain
issues in the County are not coming before this Board before they proceed onto other levels,
on agendas. Then itls conveniently put on consent agenda and sometime we don't Þnow
what really is taÞing place. That concerns me a little bit lately. There was an item on the
consent agenda last weelc? for temporary do<:Þage, which isbasicaUy a sLlpmerged land lease
for the area that the County, the City, the Delegation, this committee, the Waterfront
Council, everybody opposed because of the County's sea grass survey that was done of sea
grasses in the area. I for one am all for bringing all the fishing tournaments that we can get
however at the expense of those sea grasses there. So after I saw it on the consent agenda it
was approved and apparently therels some movement now to move it into Taylor CreeÞ
where it's already damaged, wide enough, just as assessable for boaters. I guess the County
put a temporary doclc? out for one of the previous fishing tournaments at Harbor Pointe and
D.E.P. jumped on them. D.E.P. made them move it right in the middle of the fishing
tournament. They moved it to the museum area and people really enjoyed that area. It
would enhance our museum traffic, enhance the Smithsonian traffic, and there's plenty of
parÞing under the bridge. It would actually be safer because Harbor Pointe is not really a
safe area. I just thinlc? it shouldn't be over the sea grasses. Five years from now we might
have a great project there and that property will have to be utilized for water use but at
that time you do an environmental impact study and you reap the benefit of the mitigation
for something lilc?e that. The main concern that I had with this is that it doesn't come before
a group IiÞe this. I don't Þnow what good we are if the lines of the community that sit here
from the City or legal aspects or environmental aspects."
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committße
August 9, 2007
Page 4
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Ms.iÇh9prnan aSRed Ms. Young, "How can we get them to put things before us that directly
cOl1cf,!rnthe topic of this group?'! Ms. Young replied, "As I understand this was sornetl1il'1g
~hótR.e.p. told ParRs and Recreation that they needed toqpply for a permit SO th(1t's
where they started the process. I don't thinÞ there was any intent not to bring it here. t.can
justrßrpindthem in the future if they have something in that area. I thinÞ there were s0l117
(,iegcflil1e5! involved because of the tournament wanting to Rnow what we were goingt()
off~rthem in essence because you do have to offerthese folÞssome benefits to come here;
Ms. Hearn is correct. They are 100Þing at alternative sites to put the docÞs."
Ms. Chapman stated, "Until Jeanne brought this up I was not aware that we had been, if you
IiÞe,excll.ld~dJrom deliberations on areas that relate to the port. I thinÞ the Commissioners
hqve been pretty good about saying I need you to have this on the agenda because we
Wô~.¡ dreallyJiÞe you all to be voting on it and give us some guidance."
MS'i\J.ie9r~\st!:lted, "I talÞed to this· Debra Brisson, she's relatively new to the County, and
when1mentipned it to her, the first thing she told me, and I had already talÞed to some of
tÞe\p9.r1:.iç:ipqnts, they were thrilled to death over at the historical museum. TheyliÞedit
Pßtter there than at Harbor Pointe. We have free docÞs there, beautiful docÞs. They might
needq step up or whatever you call it to get down on the level closer to the water. They are
talldocÞs but to have to rent docÞs every time that we have these tournaments. I don't
Þnowwith the budget restraints and all. I IiÞe to tout the historical museum. Theylre short
on people visiting there. People could enjoy using the causeway as well. Say a wife did nIt
go she could taÞe her little ones there. They could picnic and there's a playground right
there. I just thinÞ it would be good to get some community input before we put it on the
consent agenda. That's a pretty fast-paced thing for something there's been a lot of
controversy over:1
Ms.Ch.apman asÞed Mr. ConÞlin what he Þnew about translucent docÞs. Mr. ConÞlin said
very little. Ms. Hearn stated the Waterfront Council sent a 341 boat out there and they were
churning trying to get near, about 100' out.
Mr. KuÞIiO$þi stated, "Remember we had that concert with the barge out there. Ildliþe to
see something IiÞe that happen in that area." Ms. Chapman asÞed if it would be temporary.
Mr.t{uÞlinsÞi said no it would be permanent IiÞe in Miami.
Ms. Heqrn asÞed, "Have any of you boaters had any e><perience there at the museum
dQcÞsT' Mr. Thiess said they were high. Mr. ConÞlin said, "The currents are extremely swift
right around that area because it's right center with the inlet. That's where the velocity
occurs.. I'd say you get five. six Þnot currents going through there which maÞes it somewhat
difficult for boaters to docÞ. In the sense that whether it's gOing out or coming in, if you're
nosing into a docÞ you have to put it in reverse or you collidewith the docR. These are
powerboats. They shouldn't have a problem." Ms. Hearn said the people she had spoRe
with thought it would be convenient.
Ms. Hearn stated, "I understand welre hiring Shailesh Patel again to study spoil sites.
Shailesh Patel had a list of 12 the last time for Taylor CreeR dredging. Apparently there's a
list from the City, proposed to the County and they're going to taRe that list and I asÞed that
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
August 9, 2007
Page 5
Harbour Pointe not be included in that becauseShailesh seems to revertbacÞ to Harbour
Pointe because it's easy and it's convenient. . It'spqsttime thqt we get a permanent site.
That was suppose to be done according to our ComPrehensive Plan by 2006."
Ms. Chapman stated, "If you've got this RFQfloating around, people qren't going to want
to see that as a spoil site." Ms. Hearn said, "Well if itever contaminated HarpQur Pointe IiÞe
that apartment complex in West Palm Beach with arsenic, <people don't want to get
involved in those potential things. I'm not saying that it would be contaminated, but that's
a possibility. I have a lot of concern over this issue. I remember bacÞ when we did the
Taylor CreeÞ dredging there was quite a bit ofcpntroversyfrom people that Þnew Grant
Gillmore, people that Þnow the history of TaylQr CreeÞ and urged the COLln~y at that time
to be aware of how much mucÞ was in there. Well the results either between Don West or
Shailesh Patel came bacÞ. We were told emphatically that it was going to be> 50/50. 50%
mucÞ and 50% sand and we could utilize the sand and everything. Well the project tumed
out, I thinÞ 90% mucÞ and the County had it in their budget:' Ms. Chapman asÞed, "Who
reported that proportion of 90/10?1I Ms. Heam said, "Don West, IthinÞ that's correct. Here's
proof of it financially and this is what concerns me. To be off a little is one thing; to be off a
lot is a concern. The original budget was $185.406£01' remQving the spoil from the spoil site.
Well, we came bacÞ and we just paid another $121,300 becausewe didn't Þnow it was going
to be so much. There was a letter circulated that Lloyd Bell had requested that an invoice
be paid. The County denies there was an invoice but then edl of a sudden we get this last
month of a payment of $121,300. Everybody says it's not anything to do with Lloyd Bell but
all the timing certainly seemed right. Even if it wasn't for that purpose, to me it's a concern
that we missed the boat so far. I mean that's 75% and YOLl canlt dQ business that way. The
County paid for borings and these borings . have certqinly. told them something about
percentages of mucÞ and sand. It just seems IiÞesomeof. these things are just being paid. I
would liRe to bid on a printing order for the County for $100,000 and come bacÞ and say,
'Well my inÞ didn't go right or I didn't judge how muchiinR I'd need on that job or something
and you owe me another $75,000'. It doesn't worÞthat way.."
Ms. Hearn stated, "There's a stacÞing ordinance coming up by the City. I have a lot of
concern about that ordinance. I don't care how high the City wants to do it but I have
concern that it's City wide, which means any industriaL property can be. stacÞed up with
containers." Ms. Chapman said, "I went to the initial meeting and we sat there and sat there
and it came up but the only vote that was taÞen was to taÞe a 100Þ at it more."
Mr. Shields stated, "We don't Þnow, they haven't published the drqft<ordinance. We're only
imagining that they might have something before Planning & Zoning on this Tuesday that's
coming but they haven't noticed anyone. That's a concern for us and should be a concern
for the public as well because we should have the benefit of being able to 100Rat that as the
public." Ms. Hearn said, "Well three high would certainly benefit you all compared to what
it was." Mr. Shields replied, "Well in the initial draft that we 100Þed at part of the draft
ordinance called for a wall equal to the height of what YOLl'restoring. I can't even imagine
having walls all over the City that might be 15,20, 25 feet high depending on what you
store. We've made efforts to go and get the draft be<:ause we hear thrOLlgh the grapevine
that it's coming but at City Hall they tell us, 'No you! have it the Friday before the
meeting'. The way we understand it, it goes to Planning & Zoning and
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
August 9,2007
Page 6
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Plgl'Il'!Ìng&: Zoning can do three things. They can recommend to the Commissioners~opass
itq$itis, they can recommend t~the Commissioners not to adopt it or they can <:omE!up
Wi.thqlternative recommendations." Ms. Chapman said she heard it was going tOPE!}three
orfo~rhigh. Mr. Shields stated, "I thin~ what they were talþing about was 30' whichVJould
ql1'1~~ntto three high which for us is an issue and we'll deal with that. The bigger issueVJas
theVJ91tsurrounding the property:' Mr. Roberts stated, "I waS told two weeÞs ago tomqrrow
thqt trE! draft would be ready the following Monday or Tuesday. Here we are tendqysl~er
andstilLdon't have it."
Ms. Hearn asÞed if there was a height limit in the County. Ms. Young said she didn't thinÞ so.
Ms. Hearn said, (¡We better get one." Mr. KuþlinsÞi stated, "For instance Orange Avenue, just
past where St. Lucie Battery &: Tire is on the south side of the street. There's a lot of stuff
stored in there. Is that industrial or commercial zoned?" Ms. Young answered, "It could be
eith ne, the zoning is Þind of mixed out there." Ms. Hearn stated, "What concerns me is
the with their annexations. There's going to be a large area and if it's commercial the
County as well should be concerned."
Mr.ConÞlin stated, "Since we're talÞing about containers, the Federal Legislation are nOW
plqnnil1g to require full inspections of containers coming into U.s. ports. They would be
inspected on the ports of origin. What's pending in Congress is 100% inspections."··· Ms.
Chqpman said, "It a step in the right direction, but I don't thinÞ it's going toPe
manageable."
Ms. . young announced, "The County's been approached by Tallship Unicornls Dawn
Santqmaria. They were here a few years ago. Evidentially theylre worÞing with the City,
theyihave a program they run up north where they're based in the summer that'ScqUéd
'Sister's Under Sail'. It's a girls program to teach them about sailing and evidentially they're
thinÞJnØqbout bringing it down here for part of the year. They're worÞing with the City and
if~hE1Slig9forward and they're interested in the docÞ, we'll probably end up doing someJ:'?ind
ofln~erlocal with the City. I thinÞ they're going to be here for IiÞe two months at the docÞ
by the museum."
Ms. Hearn stated she would liÞe the Harbor Advisory Board Þept up to date on the ChucÞ's
SE!qfood lease. Ms. Young stated, "We have done an amendment to the lease that addressE!s
the rent issue based on an appraisal done for rental value by Dan Floor. We went to that
rentlevel and there's an annual CPI. As you may Þnow, they're having some issues with.the
City of Fort Pierce with their plans to rebuild what was previously there. He's been cited by
code enforcement on that. It was continued from the previous meeting in July. He was
asþedto get his plans in which he actually had in his hand that day. He submitted several
sets of plans. They're running into some issues on the rebuilding: hopefully we get those
worÞêdout."
Ms. Hearn asÞed if there were any proposals on the table for taÞing away the parÞing or
Por\:parþing. Ms. Young answered, "Evidentially there was some confusion on theplansqs
to where overflow parÞing would go and the City was very concerned about that. That was
not our intent: I don't thinÞ it was really his intent. That was something, as I understand it,
his engineer put on there. From a practical standpoint, I'm sure that's what's been
happening
Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory Committee
August 9, 2007
Page 7
over the years. People come in and they 100Þ for a place to parÞ and they parÞ wherever
but they're parþing I thinÞ beyond his leasehold when they do that. We're trying to address
how many parÞing spaces he can have. His concern is that he needs to have a certain
square footage to have the liquor license for the restaurant."
Mr. Conþlin as!:?ed, "Is he currently operating? I don't see a lot of activity there." Ms. Young
answered, "Very limited. I don't thinÞ they're open for lunch. I'm not sure what their hours
are. I thinÞ as soon as he gets the plans approved he's ready to taÞe the tent down and he's
got contractors lined up but the plans aren't approved yet."
Ms. Hearn asÞed, "Is there anymore on the safety issue of Harbor Islesl pipe that somebody's
going to get Þilled on?" Ms. Young replied, "The most recent thing I Þnow is before Ray
Wazny left he had had at least one, if not several, conversations with the Coast Guard about
putting some Þind of marÞer on that."
Mr. KuÞlinsÞi asÞed, "What is the status of the reef program? Are they finished at Harbour
Pointe?" Ms. Young replied, "I Þnow we did an agreement recently with another company
that has a barge to sinÞ, I'm not sure." Ms. Hearn said, "We were told as a group it was
going to terminate, I thinÞ, last May. The project would be complete by then." Ms.
Chapman asÞed Ms. Bush to invite Jim Oppenborn to the next Fort Pierce Harbor Advisory
meeting to give the committee an update on the artificial reef program. Mr. KuÞlins!:?i
would liRe to Þnow if the proper materials are being placed down there. Ms. Hearn said,
"There was an article in the newspaper and he claims that they're all being inspected. If that
cement starts to deteriorate, I would not want to have to go pic!:? it up IiÞe theylre doing the
tires. We just need to do our homeworÞ first. I'm all for the reef program but sinÞing things
that are not going to be salvaged later."
ADJOURNMENT.
At 3:50 pm the meeting was officially adjourned. The next meeting will be held Thursday,
September 13, 2007 at 3:00 pm in Conference Room 3, on the third floor of the
Administration Building.
Respectfully submitted: Stephanie Bush