HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 04-18-2008
CITIZENS’ BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: April 18, 2008
Conference Room 3
Meeting convened at 7:30 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chairman
Jeremiah Johnson
Edward Lounds
Craig Mundt
Nathaniel “Nate” Wells
Bill Casey
Chris Dzadovsky
Michael McKinnon
Barry Schrader
Jay L. McBee
Steven Messer
Randy Ezell
Patricia “Pat” Ferrick
Thomas Hickey
MEMBERS ABSENT: Richard Pancoast
OTHERS PRESENT: Doug Anderson
Faye Outlaw
Lee Ann Lowery
Marie Gouin
Jennifer Hill
Kathryn Hensley
Erick Gill
Mark Godwin
Mike Monahan
Beth Ryder
Paul Hiott
Stefanie Myers
Jeff Furst
Paul Hiott
John Ferrick
Carl Holeva
Garry Wilson
Michelle Franklin
Bill Hammer
Pat Curto-Nyman
Lisa Savage
Patricia Clute
Citizens’ Budget Committee
April 18, 2008
Page 2
Eva O’Donnell
Marianne Arbore
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order. Mr. Lounds apologized to Mr. Anderson, Mr.
Casey and the Committee for what he said at the last meeting. He complimented the staff
on the job they do. He was frustrated. He said Mr. Anderson does a great job and will be
missed.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Casey made a motion to accept the February 15, 2008 minutes. It was seconded and
approved unanimously.
Mr. Lounds made a motion to approve the April 4, 2008 minutes. It was seconded and
unanimously approved by the Committee.
Mr. Lounds asked about payments from FEMA. Mr. Anderson explained that projects must
be completed for payment. For example, the Special Needs Shelter should be completed
in August. The reimbursement for debris pickup is still in process. The Federal
government has recommended to the State that they repay $500,000. FEMA is
reevaluating their position. They still owe $1,500,000. They are changing their policy.
Ms. Outlaw added that at the completion of the permanent loans we would be eligible to
get that money back.
Mr. Lounds asked if the State takes a portion. He was answered that they don’t.
OVERVIEW – DOUG ANDERSON
Mr. Anderson asked the members to review the history of the amounts given to the Outside
Agencies and the 2008-2009 amounts requested on the sheet attached. The Board of
County Commissioners (BOCC) has requested the total amount be reduced by 10%.
Mr. Hensley asked how the Committee would like to handle the discussion and
recommendation. Mr. Mundt asked if there were options other than cutting these agencies.
Mr. Anderson presented the St. Lucie County Budget Fact “or” Fiction PowerPoint
attached.
Mr. Mundt asked if Mr. Anderson expected any increase in wages. Mr. Anderson
answered that he is not able to go into detail because of negotiations with the union in
May.
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April 18, 2008
Page 3
Mr. Mundt asked for the total salary payments. Mrs. Gouin estimated $74 million. Mr.
Anderson added that the number would be cut because employees are going to be laid off
and the remaining will be expected to do a lot of things they had not done in the past.
There will not be increases in benefits. They will look at wages again October 1, 2010.
Mr. Lounds asked about unfunded mandates. The tax bill includes the School Board,
South Florida Water Management and others. If the unfunded mandates were not
included under St. Lucie County they would be somewhere else. The tax bill would still be
up.
Mr. Anderson feels things could be done differently at the State level.
No increase is shown in the Sheriff’s budget. Every county department is down. Chief
Deputy Wilson said there could be as many as 75 laid off from the Sheriff’s Office.
Mr. Anderson said there are 168 BOCC qualified for early retirement. How many take that
will determine how many are laid off in May and July.
Mr. Furst explained that Property Appraiser, Tax Collector and the Clerk’s Office generate
millions of dollars of revenue. It would not be revenue positive if you were rid of them.
Most of the money goes to the Sheriff’s Office and as a citizen; protection is at the top of
his list of reasons to pay taxes.
Mr. Casey asked about increasing the amount paid by employees for dependents for
insurance. Mr. Anderson explained the costs for users have gone up and the amount
deducted from the paycheck has increased. Mr. Holeva gave the amounts of the increase.
Mr. Anderson added that the employee’s part is more when they visit a physician. Mr.
Casey said that in the private sector people are paying $600 to $700 per month. Mr.
Anderson explained that only one item could be opened in the union contract and it will be
wages this time. Mr. Casey asked how many union employees there are of the 834 County
employees. Almost half are union; and you cannot treat groups differently.
Mr. Casey asked if the sex offenders pay any part of their registration cost. Chief Deputy
Wilson answered that originally the State said no; but there is a bill to change that in
process.
Mr. Casey asked about Violation of Probation (VOP). Chief Deputy Wilson explained the
situation and informed the group that last month the VOP population was over 500. It is a
financial burden. If there were 250 in each of 67 counties, it would be a huge savings for
the State. Mr. Anderson added that if someone is sentenced to one year and one day they
go to a State prison. They are talking about changing that to 18 months.
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April 18, 2008
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Mr. Casey asked about the Skateboard Park being an enterprise operation. RFPs have
been issued per Mr. Anderson.
Mr. Casey asked if there would be advertisement for the auction. He feels the vehicles
would bring more money if more people bid.
Mr. Casey started discussion on layoffs and asked about overtime. Mr. Anderson
answered that the County is being dismantled quickly. Overtime has been cut back and
there will not be temporary staff if someone has an illness. County agencies may be
closed if someone is ill.
Mr. Casey asked about reductions in the Constitutional Offices’ budgets. Mr. Anderson
answered that the Sheriff’s budget has been frozen. The others are not due until May 1.
Chief Deputy Wilson said their staff has been going down since last budget year. They
are not replacing anyone that retires or is fired.
Ms. Ferrick asked how many of the 168 employees would be laid off if they do not take the
early retirement. Mr. Holeva answered that 54 were identified. Ms. Ferrick asked how
they would survive without insurance and pay. Mr. Anderson said he can relate to the
situation but there is nothing we can do. The County does not have the money to pay. She
asked if there would be more than 54 laid off. Mr. Anderson does not know how many
more than 54 until he has information on the property tax reform and property values in
June. Ms. Ferrick started discussion on the employees having insurance if they left. Mr.
Anderson ended the discussion by saying the voters of St. Lucie County wanted this.
Ms. Ferrick asked how much of the unfunded mandates were for the Constitutional Offices.
About 70% of the $95 million was the answer. She thinks it should be explained when
people are campaigning.
Mr. Anderson said the County’s spending is right in line with the CPI increase and growth.
Ms. Ferrick asked the estimated number of employees Mr. Anderson expects to have after
layoffs. He is not able to determine that number until he knows who takes early retirement,
the final property values and the property tax reform effect. We will be down over 200
employees.
Ms. Ferrick asked about the population projection. Mr. Anderson said they used the
median number and they are not expecting new construction.
Mr. Mundt went back to his original question, if there was $200,000 anywhere else in the
budget. Mr. Anderson answered that he has cut the County departments’ budgets by more
than 10% and could not give anyone else more. Our Community Services Department and
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April 18, 2008
Page 5
libraries serve the public, and they have been cut.
Mr. Lounds asked about the judicial agencies’ budgets. Ms. Gouin responded that their
budgets have not been analyzed. There will be a meeting of the four counties to discuss
the plan. He asked if they expect to be cut 10-12%. Ms. Gouin answered that some of
them have different funding. He asked about the County’s portion of their budgets. It was
pointed out as part of the PowerPoint presentation.
Mr. Lounds hopes that the Committee does not cut a dime that costs a dollar. The
Committee needs to look at the effect. If a system that helps the Mental Health program is
not funded, we pay on the other end. He feels the folks on the Committee are smart
enough to balance the cuts. He wants the Committee to help Mr. Anderson look outside
the box. Mr. Anderson said he would be bringing things to the Committee to review over
the next few months. He needs the Committee’s input and support. Mr. Lounds suggested
asking people in the community that are not on the Committee for help. It would educate
the others.
Mr. Anderson brought up the issue of School Resource Officers. Mr. Hensley suggested
inviting the groups that attended the meetings last fall to come again.
Mr. Lounds said the youthful offenders that need mental health care would cost a lot more
if they were taken to the jail instead of New Horizons. Mr. Anderson asked Mr. Godwin to
give a report on the Juvenile Assessment Center (JAC). Mr. Godwin said the House and
Senate are looking at eliminating the JAC. It is located next to the Juvenile Detention
Center, which costs the County $184 per day per child. They are working with the judges
to reduce the time children spend there. In a meeting in Tallahassee two weeks ago, Mr.
Godwin was told that since the utilization time went down, they are increasing the cost.
The JAC frees up law enforcement time. Mr. Godwin used the example of when his house
was burned down years ago by a child who should have been in school, to show the value
of deputies being able to take children to the JAC.
The State called to say the JAC would be closed in 48 hours unless the County could fund
it. Money not used by Sentencing Alternatives was used to keep it open.
Mr. Lounds said keeping the lights on at the sports fields keeps the kids out of gangs. Mr.
Anderson said he understands and is trying. He gave the example of waterproofing the
buildings. We are trying to maintain what we have the best we can. Mr. Lounds asked him
to let the Committee help to manage some of the thoughts. He asked the others to use
volunteer groups. Mr. Anderson added that $121 million of unbudgeted expenses were
paid after the 2004 hurricanes.
Mr. Lounds made a motion that the County not fund Executive Roundtable and 2-1-1 and
split that money evenly among the other groups. Mr. Wells seconded the motion. Mr.
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April 18, 2008
Page 6
Lounds explained that he thinks those two would be easier to cover. There would be more
calls to 9-1-1. He would like the churches to help with the homeless situation.
Mr. Dzadovsky commented that the taxpayers mandated the cuts. The Committee
represents the citizens and they said they want the government run better. He feels
everybody should share the pain. In private business, when the money is taken away,
they adjust and find a way. He feels we should move toward a shared pain. A wise sage
said, “The only way to stop government spending, is to take away the money.” As the
leader of a non-profit, he lost 80% of the funding. He was able to focus on revenues and
reorganize. They came out in the best financial shape because they made the hard
choices. He was with an airline that went through two bankruptcies. It was tough, but they
survived.
Mr. Lounds made a motion to start discussion.
Mr. McBee left the meeting at 8:35.
Ms. Ferrick asked about the effect of matching funds. These agencies help the part of
society that is suffering now. If we don’t fund these up front, we’ll pay on the back end.
She read the questions and was satisfied with the answers about travel, telephone
systems and cell phones. Mr. Anderson explained the County policy on cell phones.
Mr. Casey agreed with Mr. Dzadovsky that each agency knows their finances and should
be the ones to make the tough decisions about what should be cut. Mr. Dzadovsky didn’t
feel the agencies answered the questions about the revenue side. He gave the example of
someone who could afford it, paying for a flu shot. The agencies will be able to prioritize.
The administrative side is usually heavy and the service side is not as well funded.
Agencies will be able to look at and reduce administration and still be able to maintain the
services.
Mr. Wells said the Executive Roundtable is a group of executives and they would be able
to find a way even though it won’t be easy. There is a phrase in Economics 101 that the
voters will vote for what they think will benefit them but often find out it doesn’t. They voted
to cut the sources to the people who need it the most. He has 20-30 gang members on his
street every afternoon. He doesn’t see members of the Executive Roundtable there. The
gang members don’t like him; but he is not moving away. They need support. They need
guidance on how to work. They are not making it in school. They need attention.
Mr. Dzadovsky agrees that it is difficult and emotional. There was discussion on public
safety, perceived crime, and the citizens’ demand.
Mr. Casey asked about the Council on Aging increase. Ms. Ryder explained that is the
amount of their federal match and the services they provide.
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April 18, 2008
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Mr. Mundt asked for clarification on the amounts. Mr. Lounds explained. Mr. Hensley
reminded the Committee of the function of the Executive Roundtable.
Mr. Furst gave his opinion on Mr. Anderson’s job versus the Committee’s job. Mr.
Anderson does not have a choice. The Committee and Commissioners do. Some of the
agencies do not have a place to go and the public will suffer.
Mr. Johnson asked for clarification. Mr. Lounds feels these two agencies would be better
able to get their job done without the County money.
There was a roll call vote with five for and eight against.
Mr. Lounds made a motion to reduce each agency 10%. Mr. Dzadovsky seconded the
motion. Mr. Casey commented that it is not a true 10% cut. Ms. Ryder explained the
transit numbers should not be in there. The motion was amended and seconded to reflect
the correct figure.
There was a roll call vote with ten for and three against.
Mr. Lounds asked Mr. Anderson and staff to let them help find ways to provide services
even though the budget has been cut.
Mr. Anderson said if the Committee would like to meet more often, he would accommodate.
Mr. Lounds doesn’t think that is the answer. He thinks more people need to be involved.
OTHER ISSUES
Mr. Dzadovsky said he had heard all morning that there is a problem with the State. He
thinks the Committee should send a letter to the Legislature or the Governor. They should
check with other Counties to see if they have Citizens’ Budget Committee.
Mr. Hensley feels the Legislature knows exactly what they are doing. Mr. Dzadovsky
suggested a public forum to let the taxpayers know.
Mr. Anderson wondered how many other counties have a Citizens’ Budget Committee and
volunteered to do a survey to get that information.
Mr. Lounds agreed it was important to influence the folks in Tallahassee; but the
immediate need is to support the local government in finding ways to manage the money.
He asked the members to stay with it and support the administration.
Mr. Hammer made his observations and asked that his comments be attached to the
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April 18, 2008
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minutes.
Ms. Hensley feels the voters were misled for political reasons. The repercussions are
phenomenal. It will dismantle local governments. If the local government does not follow
State direction the repercussions are immediate. If the State government chooses not to
enact any part of the Constitution, it is a lawsuit that takes up to eight years and since we
have term limits, there is no repercussion for the current officials to follow their own laws.
Mr. Hensley expressed his appreciate for each person’s time and asked them to keep
working.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 8:58 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin
The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, May 16, 2008, at 7:30 a.m., in
Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration Annex.