HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 05-16-2008
CITIZENS’ BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: May 16, 2008
Conference Room 3
Meeting convened at 7:30 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chairman
Jeremiah Johnson
Edward Lounds
Craig Mundt
Nathaniel “Nate” Wells (7:32)
Bill Casey
Chris Dzadovsky (7:38)
Richard Pancoast
Jay L. McBee (7:35)
Randy Ezell (7:34)
Patricia “Pat” Ferrick
Thomas Hickey (7:40)
MEMBERS ABSENT: Michael McKinnon
Barry Schrader
Steven Messer
OTHERS PRESENT: Doug Anderson
Faye Outlaw
Lee Ann Lowery
Marie Gouin
Jennifer Hill
Kathryn Hensley
Erick Gill
Mike Monahan
John Ferrick
Garry Wilson
Michelle Franklin
Bill Hammer
Sherry McCorkle
Ken Mascara
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order.
CBC IN OTHER COUNTIES
Mr. Hensley started discussion on the attached memo regarding Citizens’ Budget
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May 16, 2008
Page 2
Committees in other counties.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Johnson made a motion to approve the April 18, 2008 minutes. It was seconded by
Mr. Wells and unanimously approved by the Committee.
Mr. Hensley asked the members to let the secretary know if they needed the minutes and
agendas mailed to them or if they could get them from their email.
Mr. Anderson informed the Committee that the binders for the Board of County
Commissioners’ budget review in July are being replaced with CDs. Later in the summer
the agenda packets will be online. We are going paperless.
Mr. Hensley asked about access for people without computers. Mr. Gill said there would
probably be one copy in Media for the press and public.
FINANCIAL STATEMENTS – DOUG ANDERSON AND MARIE GOUIN
Mr. Anderson explained the $85 million fund balance, which was really $207 million on
September 30, 2007 (see PowerPoint and financials attached). He informed the group of
the Airport Business Plan. Ms. Gouin explained the Non-major governmental funds.
Mr. Anderson said there is a management letter sent with the audit each year. Five or six
years ago there were findings, things not done properly, included in that letter for the year
and previous years. Those things have been corrected and there have not been any
findings the last few years. That is incredible when you are dealing with 54 funds.
Accounting, purchases orders, and contracts are being done correctly.
Mr. Mundt questioned that $225,000 taken from social service agencies could not be found
in over $3 million. Mr. Anderson said he would explain why not. It would mean laying off
another five positions. He believes the County is going to have to find money for School
Resource Officers. Ms. Hill explained that one of the reasons they are working on a 24-
month budget is because they know the balancing of fiscal year 2009 is largely due to the
fund balance that will not be available the next year. Mr. Anderson added that they are
going to the Board of County Commissioners Tuesday with a recommendation to lay off
five or six employees in Code. They have labeled 50 to 60 white-collar positions to be laid
off in July. Ten are eligible for early retirement. 168 county employees are identified for
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early retirement. Signup begins June 1. 13 have already jumped the gun. He expects 50
of those to retire. We are down 135 positions. Five or six will leave next Friday. If 50 take
the early retirement and another 50 are laid off in July, we would be down about 240
positions and are looking at another layoff in September, depending on union negotiations,
property values, property tax reform numbers and savings. Union negotiations are
Monday night. He has talked to all Constitutional Officers and none are giving increases.
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May 16, 2008
Page 3
The Sheriff’s Office is in an impasse with union negotiations. Mr. Anderson doesn’t see
any increases being given until October 1, 2010.
Mr. Mundt asked if that policy is countywide. Mr. Anderson added no step or cost of living
increases. He can’t justify giving money to outside agencies when he will be laying off
County employees and the remaining will be working harder without wage increases.
Mr. Casey asked for an explanation of the $85,000,000. Ms. Gouin answered that the
target was missed by $40,000,000. Chances of missing this year’s target were discussed.
Mr. Pancoast compared the County budget to his personal car budget and explained the
savings were due to cutbacks. Ms. Gouin explained the fund balance increases. Mr.
Casey is concerned about making life more difficult for the citizens of the County. Mr.
Hensley understood Mr. Casey to say he didn’t want any balance at the end of the year.
Mr. Casey asked if $31 million was sitting. Ms. Gouin explained what was decided at
Strategic Planning. $14 million will be carried forward to 2009-2010.
Mr. Anderson explained what is being used in 2008-2009 and what would be used in 2009-
2010. Mr. Dzadovsky added that part of the equation is missing. We do not know what
the assessments will be.
Today we show a $14 million shortfall for the budget that starts October 1, 2009. The
effect of portability and amount of decrease in property values is unknown. Ms. Gouin
added that Mr. Furst, Property Appraiser, thinks the decrease may be 14% instead of 12%.
All the predicted numbers for property tax revenue used -12%. If it is -14%, the deficit will
be $3-4 million greater. Things that are fluctuating in the budget are union negotiations,
School Resource Officers, and fuel costs.
Over $300,000 in vehicles were auctioned off Saturday. Mr. Anderson is suggesting to the
Commissioners that the money be set-aside in an emergency vehicle replacement fund.
Lower property values will affect the deficit. There is only emergency lighting in the
corridors. Buildings are not being cleaned daily. They have been tracking Port St. Lucie’s
clinic for employees. That company did a projection for our County. If employees used the
clinic, the visits would be free for the employee. The County could save up to $7 million
over a three-year period. The prescriptions are bought directly from the drug companies.
It won’t cost any extra because the County is self-insured. They are checking to see if
they can piggyback Port St. Lucie’s contract. They are looking at the area of the Logistics
Center that is now used by The Salvation Army Thrift Store. Mr. Anderson has checked
with the Sheriff’s Office and the School Board to see if they would be interested in the
program.
Mr. Mundt asked if full-time deputies were assigned as School Resource Officers. When
told yes, he asked if retired or others without fringe benefits could be used. Deputy Chief
Wilson answered that it would be difficult because they must maintain certification. Other
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May 16, 2008
Page 4
jurisdictions have tried but it hasn’t worked out.
Mr. Anderson added that the $14 million would be updated in a couple weeks. Mr.
Hensley asked how often the number would be changed. Ms. Gouin answered once a
month. The number going up or down was discussed. Mr. Anderson wants the gap closed
this year. The longer we wait, the larger the cuts. Ms. Gouin added that there are still
frozen positions.
Mr. Casey asked again about the $12 million and $31 million. Looking at budgeted
figures, the unknown is where is the missed target going to be this year. Mr. Dzadovsky
added that the property values from the Property Appraiser are the unknown. This year is
different. There have been increases the last few years. Looking at the future is
reasonable to protect the County. Mr. Anderson thinks the major automotive corporations
in this country wish they would have looked to the future and readjusted. Mr. Pancoast
pointed out that if there had not been savings the last few years, we would be in a more
difficult situation now. He thanked Mr. Anderson.
Mr. Lounds does not think the question is where the money is but a lack of understanding
of how the carryover is achieved. His problem is that $200,000 was taken from the little
committees when he wonders if the money could have been creatively found to help the
ARC take care of their clients and qualified nurses and resource officers be put in the
schools. The mystique and magic leaves questions in his mind about what will happen in
the future. Last year is over. He wants to understand for the future so it is not a surprise.
Mr. Lounds thanked Mr. Anderson because he thinks this county is in better shape than
the others. But he wants to understand how he got there. Mr. Anderson agreed. Mr.
Lounds wants Mr. Anderson to help them help him. Everybody in the room likes the
County and has faith in Mr. Anderson and Ms. Gouin. The Committee members were
challenged by their appointees to ask the why, where and what if questions, so there will
not be smoke and mirrors over the process. Mr. Anderson explained that he couldn’t
recommend giving the outside agencies the 10% that was taken because the County is not
stable now and it needs to get its feet on the ground. We don’t know the real effect of the
property tax reform. After we stabilize, we can look at giving more money to the outside
agencies. He agrees the Committee needs to understand the budget. Tentative numbers
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should be received from the Property Appraiser’s office on June 1. Updated numbers will
be available for the June meeting and that meeting will be critical because the workshops
with the Board of County Commissioners will be in July.
Mr. Lounds said Mr. Anderson has done a wonderful job with the budget. It is the
Committee’s fault for not asking the right questions and getting the answers. They need to
read the audit and ask questions. Then the Committee could give advice and answers to
the community.
Mr. Casey and Mr. Lounds said hearing the County is broke and then hearing we have $85
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May 16, 2008
Page 5
million was a shock. Mr. Casey said it is almost insulting that he received the information
from another agency. Mr. Pancoast said there was nothing in the information that was a
surprise to him. Mr. Anderson said there was a press release when the audit was done the
end of April. It has not been presented to the Board of County Commissioners yet. Ms.
Gouin said the fund balance information was presented at Strategic Planning.
Mr. Casey started discussion on the emergency reserves. They are recommending that
$1million be added this year instead of the previously planned $5 million. The Committee
recommended to the Board of County Commissioners about four years ago that the
emergency reserves be increased from five to twenty million dollars. The $11 million is
carryover and part of the $85 million. Ms. Gouin explained the process and numbers and
answered Mr. Casey’s questions. Mr. Casey explained his frustration.
Mr. Casey asked about the $4 million to the golf course. Mr. Anderson explained that the
County has been subsidizing the airport, not the golf course. The golf course has not been
paying the rent. The amount owed the airport is almost $4 million and they will give credit,
but show it as a liability to the golf course so the golf course can pay the rent. The County
will have to fund about $300,000 every year.
Ms. Ferrick asked about funding the airport. Mr. Anderson answered that they hope the
airport will be at a break-even point in about three years. Ms. Ferrick asked how much the
airport was subsidized this last year. Ms. Gouin will bring the information next month.
Mr. Johnson asked if the County is subsidizing the golf course. Operationally they are
break-even but they are not able to pay the rent to the airport. Mr. Anderson said it is a
tough question to know when to subsidize. The Savannah Campground, Lawnwood
Complex, The Oxbow Center, libraries and the Fairgrounds are not break-even. Mr. Casey
asked if that is not the reason taxes are collected. Mr. Hensley said the taxes are to
provide those services. Mr. Anderson said people are asking why the County is funding
things that are not breaking even. They are questioning if they need that service.
Mr. Lounds feels the County charges less than private enterprise for services. He thinks
the County should be competitive with golf rates and copies.
Mr. Anderson said Ms. Lowery is in charge of the departments looking at new fees. Mr.
Lounds added that the County couldn’t be everything to everybody. Mr. Anderson added
that he wants to cut off all lights and shut the parks at a certain time each night. This is
being done in other counties. He told a story about a game where the coach stalled the
game until the lights went out and he won.
Mr. Lounds said if we economize in those areas, maybe we would have money for
registered nurses in the schools and more deputies. Mr. Anderson agreed; but he wants to
stabilize.
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May 16, 2008
Page 6
Mr. Anderson mentioned the Fenn Center and asked if the County should subsidize it. Mr.
Lounds thinks the Committee could help answer those questions if given the opportunity.
OTHER ISSUES
Mr. Wells started discussion on the clinic. He asked if other government entities would
take advantage of it. Mr. Anderson answered that he hopes so. Mr. Lounds asked about
the jail population taking advantage of the clinic. Mr. Anderson said they are looking at
different things for the jail. The County has set up its own drug testing facility at the
Courthouse. They will go to the jail to do testing.
Mr. Wells was curious about the future of the doctors in the program. The company told
Mr. Anderson that they have no problem getting physicians. The company pays the
malpractice insurance.
Mr. Lounds asked Ms. Hensley how many schools there are in the County. She answered
45. He asked how many have registered nurses. There are 9.5. Some are supplied by
the Health Department and some are school employees. Every school has a LPN. Some
of the registered nurses are assigned one-on-one to medically fragile students. Mr.
Anderson added that there is a larger issue that we have no control over. The school
taxes collected go to Tallahassee and they divide it among the counties. He feels it should
be that the taxes collected in this County should remain in this County and the district
should decide how to spend the money.
Mr. Lounds asked how many sex offenders are registered in this County. Major Monahan
answered there are 607 sex offenders and predators. They should be seen once each
quarter. Major Monahan does not feel it is done to the level it should be. That is the type
of thing that worries Mr. Lounds. Mr. Anderson said it worries all of us.
Mr. McBee left the meeting.
Mr. Lounds said to quit building. Mr. Anderson said we have. He explained the current
projects and funding. The office, concession/restroom area and Emergency Operations
Center being built at the fairgrounds now are the end of the road.
Mr. Casey asked when it was appropriate to talk about having consolidated law
enforcement. Stuart and Martin County are trying to follow our example of the fire district
because of the cost and service advantages. Who starts that conversation? Sheriff
Mascara said the City Council and Board of County Commissioners would start that
conversation. Mr. Pancoast said he talked to Mayor Christensenabout it and she is dead
set against any consolidation. Sheriff Mascara added that Port St. Lucie would always
oppose it. Fort Pierce might consider it.
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May 16, 2008
Page 7
Mr. Dzadovsky asked what the savings would be. Sheriff Mascara estimates that it would
be 15% of the budget. Mr. Dzadovsky said that would be $1.9 million. He asked if the
money could be used by the Sheriff’s Department for salary increases and training. Sheriff
Mascara said the city would realize the savings, not the Sheriff’s Department.
Mr. Hammer encouraged the members to keep doing what they are doing. He feels law
enforcement and safety should be at the top of the list. He gave his opinion on the
situation. He compared Martin, Indian River and St. Lucie median salaries. He feels
property taxes should be rolled back as much as possible so people have spendable
income. People are selling their blood to buy gas and food.
Mr. Hensley thanked the Committee for their direct questions and invigorating discussion.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 8:40 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin
The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, June 27, 2008, at 7:30 a.m.,
in Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration
Annex.