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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 11-21-2008 CITIZENS’ BUDGET COMMITTEE Meeting Date: November 21, 2008 Conference Room 3 Meeting convened at 7:30 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chairman Bill Casey Edward Lounds (7:38) Craig Mundt Nathaniel “Nate” Wells Bobby Rodriguez Richard Pancoast Jay L. McBee (7:35) Steven Messer (7:35) MEMBERS ABSENT: Barry Schrader Thomas Hickey Michael McKinnon Jeremiah Johnson Patricia “Pat” Ferrick Randy Ezell OTHERS PRESENT: Faye Outlaw Lee Ann Lowery Marie Gouin Jennifer Hill Michelle Franklin Bill Hammer Jeff Furst CALL TO ORDER Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order. He introduced Mr. Bobby Rodriguez, Commissioner Coward’s appointee. Mr. Rodriguez said that he is the founder and CEO of the Latin Chamber of Commerce of the Treasure Coast. Each year he does the Treasure Coast Latin Festival that generates scholarship funds. He thanked the group for the opportunity to be part of a great committee. Since there was no quorum, approval of the minutes was delayed. 2010 BUDGET DEFICIT –MARIE GOUIN Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 2 Ms. Gouin referred to an October 13, 2008 memo from Mr. Anderson (see attached). A 12% decrease was used in the original decreasing property values estimate. Mr. Furst has since advised him to use 20%. Ms. Gouin advised the Committee of a budget workshop with the Board of County Commissioners on December 8, 2008. Ms. Outlaw pointed out to the group that on the back of their agenda (see attached) there was a draft agenda for the workshop. They hope to get the best estimate of the decrease in property values from Mr. Furst so they can discuss major issues with the Board of County Commissioners and try to plan before Strategic Planning. Mr. Anderson is going to talk to the Board of County Commissioners about taking the money from the limited planned projects and putting it into an emergency reserve fund. One of the projects he is recommending be put on hold is remodeling an area of the Logistics Center for Community Services. The Jail Medical Wing is the other major project. Mr. Mundt asked about I & S. Ms. Gouin explained it is Interest and Sinking Fund. Individuals paying the debt service for utilities, such as water, was also discussed. Mr. Casey asked about taxes on foreclosed homes. Ms. Gouin explained that the banks pay the taxes when they take ownership. Ms. Outlaw said either the bank maintains the taxes or the Tax Collector will hold a tax sale and she explained the timing of the process. We are still collecting about 95% of the taxes and Mr. Davis does not expect that to change. Ms. Gouin added the tax certificates are an investment for the ones who buy them. Mr. Casey is concerned that not pursuing construction projects will have a double negative effect. Ms. Outlaw assumes that it will be discussed with the Board of County Commissioners. Mr. Casey feels not giving work to local contractors would be an immediate savings but not a long-term savings. Ms. Outlaw said if the contracts were awarded to local contractors, it would certainly help the local economy. Preferential treatment to local contractors (Local Preference Ordinance) was discussed. Mr. Lounds feels it is worth 10-12% to keep the money here. Ms. Gouin explained that if the project has grant funds, you could not use local preference. Grant funds were explained and discussed. Mr. Wells asked about the appraised rate of the tax deeds. Ms. Outlaw explained the rate is set when the tax bills are originally sent out to the owners. They are not adjusted for the sales. Mr. Mundt asked about pages B-6 and B-7 of the budget book. Could those funds be touched? Ms. Gouin explained that Transportation Fund 101 is Gas Tax funded. Each has stipulations for how they can be used. Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 3 Ms. Gouin explained the Health Insurance Fund. Mr. Mundt asked about Arts in Public Places (AIPP). Ms. Gouin explained the Board of County Commissioners adopted an ordinance that gives a percentage of all projects to the fund. Ms. Outlaw explained that all grants have restrictions. You have to be extremely careful how you use the funds. Mr. Casey asked if they could change the AIPP ordinance. Ms. Outlaw said the Board of County Commissioners could rescind that ordinance. You would have to check each fund to identify the origination, to see if the Board of County Commissioners has the flexibility to change it. Mr. Mundt was trying to stimulate thought. He asked about rollovers on the Errata sheet. Could purchases for equipment be canceled? He read several items on the sheet. Ms. Gouin explained why the Parks and Recreation position went from part-time to full-time. Mr. Mundt asked about professional services for Growth Management. Mr. Casey said that contractors are complaining that it takes too long for a permit. He asked, “Isn’t this the time that we want things to be happening?” Mr. Mundt asked if we haven’t bought some of the stuff on the list, if the purchase could be stopped. Ms. Outlaw agreed in principle, if they are talking about General Fund funded purchases. But the Airport and 99% of the projects are grant funded and if the money is not utilized, it goes back. The Board of County Commissioners has the discretion to revisit General Fund operation items. If the Committee made a recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners, they could act on it. Mr. Mundt mentioned reducing the Emergency Reserves and Fund Balance. Mr. Hensley explained the Emergency Reserve amount was reduced. Mr. Lounds asked if it would be cheaper to have outside contractors mow rather than the County purchase equipment and pay employees. Ms. Outlaw said we are in the infancy stage. The outside contractors are being phased out. She does not believe there were major equipment purchases made. They will have to see how it goes. They will have to balance. If staff cutbacks continue, who will you have to go out and do the work? Mr. Casey cannot believe County employees with benefits are cheaper than independent contractors. Mr. Hensley said people want it that way because it looks like you are more efficient when you sometimes are not. Money has to be spent to replace capital. Mr. Casey said the will of the people is to save money. Mr. Lounds said there was a reason we went to contracting it out 10 to 15 years ago, and he fears we forgot the balance. Government is not like businesses. Businesses have to stop certain things. Bill Gates said if General Motors had kept up with the technology the computer industry has, we would be driving $25 cars that get 1,000 miles to the gallon. Government has to keep up. Ms. Outlaw added that we do not have a dedicated employee to mowing. Employees are doubling and tripling up on duties. You are getting more bang for your buck. We are not maintaining the same schedule. Medians and right-of-ways may only be mowed once a month or once a quarter. You cannot compare apples and oranges. Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 4 Mr. Mundt asked about personnel history in the Budget Summary. Ms. Outlaw said there are 750 employees right now. Mr. Casey started discussion on frozen and eliminated positions. Frozen positions are not funded. Ms. Gouin added that the early retirement positions were eliminated. Mr. Mundt asked about the addition of County Attorney positions. It was explained that it was to the Criminal Justice Division. That is the one area that has expanded because of the level of crime and various programs. GPS and drug testing programs have been added. Mr. Mundt asked about the employee clinic. Ms. Outlaw answered that it is on hold. The Board of County Commissioners gave permission to go out for a Request for Proposal (RFP) but the design funding was pulled until the RFP comes in and they decide if they will move forward. The RFP is due December 1, 2008. The clinic was planned to be in the Logistics Center. Mr. Lounds asked Ms. Outlaw to talk about income funds, such as the landfill. Is there a chance to increase charges? Ms. Outlaw said the landfill fund is in trouble like all the others. The Board of County Commissioners did increase the fees but they do not go into effect until the 2009-2010 budget. The municipalities are part of the operation, so we wanted to give them time. Mr. Lounds asked if the volume was down. Ms. Outlaw said there are no collections from empty houses. Almost everything across the board is down. Mr. Lounds talked about stimulating the tourist industry. Ms. Outlaw explained the Tourism Department is funded by the bed tax. They are using that money for marketing and a new campaign to partner with the local hotels and the Bahamas to beef up the interest and promote tourism. She is filling in as Tourism Manager. Mr. Lounds thinks the Southern Kingfish Association would come back if a real plea was made listing the benefits. He thinks the Tourism group should target that kind of thing. Mr. Rodriguez said they are trying to work with the non-profits that do events as he does. There are organizations bringing in money and they need help to continue to increase the people coming here. They are doing a great job. Mr. Mundt asked Ms. Outlaw if her position would be frozen when she moves up to County Administrator. She does not know if the Board of County Commissioners will approve filling the Assistant position. If it is her decision, it will be filled. Mr. Hensley said the County is not funding people to promote tourism as he thinks they should. If things are down, you only have yourself to blame if you don’t fund it. Most of the budget cuts are like shooting yourself in the foot. Mr. Casey and Mr. Hensley had discussion on the purpose of the Committee. They agreed the employees are doing more work. Mr. Hensley feels the Committee’s job is to help. Mr. Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 5 Casey thinks the extra sets of eyes should help. He was very impressed that Mr. Mundt brought up the AIPP ordinance. Where the 1% comes from for AIPP was explained by Ms. Hill. Ms. Outlaw asked if they wanted to send a recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners to review that ordinance. Mr. Pancoast wanted to back up Mr. Mundt’s suggestion to review the General Fund projects. He thinks they should make a motion. Ms. Outlaw brought the agenda so they could make suggestions. Mr. Casey asked if AIPP funding could be frozen. Ms. Outlaw said they could recommend it. The Attorney would have to look at it. Ms. Outlaw explained that she and the Board of County Commissioners would have to look at each project. Mr. Lounds talked about essential and non-essential spending and the image the public sees. Putting up a statue and not maintaining a building rubs the wrong way. Mr. Rodriguez said there are ways to generate funds in private industry. Mr. Lounds feels they should reach out to the community to help. Mr. Mundt would rather bring ideas to staff to massage than make recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners. He asked about the funds for the Law Library and Economic Development Trust Fund. Ms. Gouin explained the Law Library is funded by court fees and part of Article Five of the State Constitution. Mr. Mundt asked about fuel allocations and suppliers. Ms. Outlaw explained the County is using the School Board’s supplier. Mr. Hensley added that they wouldn’t know until the end of the year how much was spent. Mr. Lounds asked Mr. Furst for words of wisdom. Mr. Furst had spent time the week before with State officials. We are one of the Counties they use for economic forecasting. The numbers that will come from the State are hard truth. The State situation is getting worse. The retirement fund is down so the counties will be told to increase payment. It is the worst economic times he has seen. He believes it will get worse, and he has no doubt we will get through it. Many people believe government needs more revenue. But there will be no more revenue because there is no money. Pain is coming through the whole system. This County and Florida is in pretty good shape compared to others. We don’t want to delude ourselves that this will end quickly. At the end, we will figure out where to go. You can’t figure out where to go when things are still dropping out from under you. This year’s numbers are worse than last year. There is no new construction. The Committee can help by convincing the public that the County staff recognizes the dilemma and is doing the best job they can. We will find the answers. No use looking at the past. He thinks they will have to have a special session because the State can’t keep operating on a bad budget. He thinks they will push the pain to local governments. He thinks they will quit doing some things that the County will have to do. When he served on the Committee, he, like Mr. Mundt, would come to meetings with great ideas and have Staff tell him why they couldn’t do it. Ms. Outlaw needs to tell Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 6 the Committee what they can do to help and areas to address. Ms. Outlaw answered that is her plan. Mr. McBee left the meeting. Mr. Hensley asked if the Committee wanted to make a recommendation. Mr. Lounds wanted to hear Staff opinions and make recommendations at the end. th Ms. Outlaw asked the Committee to email thoughts or ideas on the December 8 meeting to Ms. Gouin or her. Mr. Wells asked about the Jail Medical Wing and the lawsuit. Ms. Outlaw explained that there was a settlement of the lawsuit. One of the stipulations was that the County would consider expanding the Medical Wing. The difference between considering and funding will have to be determined. The Inmate Medical Cost on the agenda relates to level of funding in the budget to cover the cost compared to the level of costs coming in. The last quarter bill was double the amount left in the budget. The costs are rising astronomically. Mr. Lounds would be interested in how many are federal prisoners. Ms. Outlaw said it is State prisoners where there is an issue. They pay a fee and we pay all the costs. Mr. Lounds thinks the Sheriff’s Office should track the information. Mr. Wells asked the reason for the rise. Ms. Outlaw answered that there are a number of issues. Mr. Lounds talked about State prisoners being left in the County jail costing the County money that the State does not reimburse. Ms. Outlaw informed the group that the issue was part of the Legislative Request. But they were informed yesterday the Legislative session was canceled. They are not going to fund community budget issues at all this year. Mr. Lounds believes all the counties should push the issue. Ms. Outlaw added that it is a statewide issue. APPROVAL OF MINUTES th A motion was made to accept the October 17 minutes. It was seconded and unanimously approved. Mr. Casey needed to leave the meeting so he asked if other votes were needed. He agreed with Mr. Mundt that the recommendation about AIPP could come from Staff; but he thinks the Committee should take some of the weight off Staff and push it. Mr. Pancoast agreed. Mr. Mundt thinks that would be excellent. But he believes there are more items, and he wants to know if Staff has additional things. Mr. Pancoast said things like Ravenswood Pool are the hard decisions. The election is over. The hard decisions must be made. Mr. Casey asked if Ms. Outlaw and Ms. Gouin could bring a list of the funds that we could control to the next meeting. Ms. Outlaw said the short answer is the General Fund. Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 7 Mr. Mundt asked if wages and benefits are going to be on the table. Ms. Outlaw answered that they may have to. Mr. Mundt said the goal is to look at every possibility to close the $7.2 million gap but if we don’t get there, they will look. Mr. Pancoast asked if any facilities could be closed. Mr. Hensley asked that they bring suggestions to the next meeting. Some recreation facilities and libraries have been closed. They are trying to get out of operating neighborhood parks. Mr. Casey left the meeting. Mr. Rodriguez said there are leagues, such as soccer, that would take over some facilities and maintain them. ADMINISTRATION TRANSITION – FAYE OUTLAW Ms. Outlaw wanted to discuss with the Committee what they expected for future meetings. She needs more lead time to put information together. Some departments are struggling. She would like them to have more time to get their material together. She thinks there would be more meaningful meetings if the Committee members had the backup in advance. Ms. Outlaw would like to know the Committee’s expectations and preferred format for the meetings. She will note the suggestions made by Mr. Furst. Mr. Hensley asked that the members always get questions to Ms. Outlaw or Brenda before the meetings so the explanations can be ready. Mr. Pancoast feels that since the Committee often has so many things going on at the same time, Ms. Outlaw should evaluate and prioritize. Ms. Outlaw asked if they still want to look at specific departments. Mr. Mundt said they have had almost every department head and they have a good understanding of the operation. He thinks the Committee and the departments should focus on the budget. Mr. Mundt would like to look at expenses. He feels there is a lot of expertise on the Committee. The Committee should respond to the community. They all got an earful during the last election season. Ms. Outlaw has no problem bringing department and budget information to the Committee but she wants to plan so there can be a meaningful discussion. She has little patience with meetings that go on, not on task. Mr. Lounds reminded the Committee that they are advisors. They have a lot of experience. Staff has to remind the Committee that government is not the same as civil business. The advice stimulates thoughts and ideas. The Committee does talk to the community and Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 8 brings their messages to Staff. Mr. Hensley said the Airport was the only department they had requested and not seen a presentation. Mr. Mundt said he is hearing that the Airport funding is federally matched or mandated so it couldn’t be changed. Ms. Outlaw said they have a portion of General Funds because all the projects require a local match. Mr. Mundt brought up the issue of the property the County is looking to purchase. Mr. Lounds asked about the tenants. Ms. Outlaw believes this year will be the first year they have a break-even budget. As they have more tenants and renegotiated the lease rates, they are operating in the black. Mr. Mundt asked if they were reviewing the Master Plan for the Airport. Ms. Outlaw said they are about to start that process. Mr. Mundt feels they should wait until that was complete. The Committee decided to not meet in December. Mr. Wells said they could email suggestions. Sometimes the discussions raise questions. Mr. Lounds referred to Item 13 of the Budget Workshop. Does the Economic Development Council (EDC) realize there is part of St. Lucie County north of Midway Road? Ms. Outlaw answered they do. He feels they need to be reminded there is a big development area around the Airport and the Education and Research farm is separate. Ms. Outlaw said there had been a productive discussion with the Executive Director of the EDC and for the first time, the new City Manager and Mayor of Fort Pierce attended a meeting of the EDC. Mr. Hensley asked if it was an additional $147,500. Ms. Outlaw answered that is was. The discussion will be to determine where the money will be allocated. Should it be given to the EDC or hire staff at the County? The current Economic Development manager is scheduled to retire in March. Mr. Mundt asked if a replacement for Mr. Daum was budgeted. Mr. Mundt and Mr. Lounds think the County should keep some of the money for a person to promote St. Lucie County. Ms. Outlaw asked why that would not be the kind of thing they would want to recommend to the Board of County Commissioners. It is a budget issue and that is General Fund money. Mr. Lounds will not speak for the Committee. It was asked if a Director had been appointed for the Research Park. Ms. Outlaw explained that there was a selection made but the agreement had not been finalized. Ms. Outlaw said that she hoped there would be members from the Committee at the Budget Workshop. Mr. Mundt asked about Building Permits. There is no discussion on cost of fees, just about how bad things are. Mosquito Control’s revenues are down. Utilities’ revenues are way down. Citizens’ Budget Committee November 21, 2008 Page 9 Mr. Hammer said there are millions of dollars invested in facilities. He thinks there should be fees charged for the beaches. Mr. Wells said the County is doing an excellent job mowing the swales. Mr. Hensley reminded the Committee that there would be no December meeting. Ms. Outlaw thanked the Committee for bearing with her. Mr. Pancoast feels it is the other way. The meeting got off track. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 9:00 a.m. Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin