HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 03-20-2009
CITIZENS’ BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: March 20, 2009
Conference Room 3
Meeting convened at 7:30 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chairman
Bobby Rodriguez
Edward Lounds
Craig Mundt
Nathaniel “Nate” Wells (7:31)
Richard Pancoast
Patricia “Pat” Ferrick
Randy Ezell
Jay L. McBee
Steven Messer (7:38)
Edith Hepburn (7:36)
Dan Kurek (7:38)
MEMBERS ABSENT: Barry Schrader
Thomas Hickey
Bill Casey
OTHERS PRESENT: Faye Outlaw Lee Ann Lowery
Marie Gouin Jennifer Hill
Bill Hammer Don West
Beth Ryder Lauri Case
Anita Neil Kathryn Hensley
Diana Lewis Garry Wilson
Joseph Smith Jim David
Robert O’Sullivan Mike Monahan
Jack Southard Sophia Holt
Michelle Franklin Roger Shinn
Major Patrick Tighe John Ferrick
Debra Brisson Bill Hoeffner
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order and skipped to item three since there was not a
quorum.
HURRICANE EMERGENCY NEEDS
Mr. Hoeffner began with a PowerPoint presentation (see attached). He realized there is a
third factor required for emergency preparedness, experience. Prior to 2004, we had
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 2
practice experience. Experience from four storms is probably the County’s best asset.
Ms. Outlaw added that if a department has damage to an area that they are responsible
for, they first look at their budget for funds for repairs. If the department doesn’t have it,
they go to emergency reserve funds.
Mr. Hensley clarified that Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) paid for 95%
of FEMA-eligible damage.
Mr. Hoeffner added that they also seek reimbursement from National Resources
Conversation Service (NRCS), which is through the United States Department of
Agriculture (USDA). They try Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) and Florida
Department of Transportation (FDOT) for the roads. Those groups only pay 75%. Some
expenses are not eligible. FEMA is becoming much more strict. The policy was that if a
project were not eligible through the other agencies, they would consider it. Now they will
not.
Mr. Lounds asked if the money was paid directly to the County or by way of the State. Ms.
Outlaw answered by way of the State. He asked if the State kept a portion. Ms. Outlaw
answered that the State has the option to pick up half of the 5% that FEMA does not pay.
Typically, it is just a pass through. Mr. Lounds asked if she was concerned that it would
not happen next year. She does not think the State would keep part of the County’s funds;
but they may not pay half of the balance. The federal government may not pay as much as
they did before.
Mr. Ezell asked Mr. Hoeffner if he had any contact with others who had been audited. If
so, what was their experience? Mr. Hoeffner answered that he had not had direct contact.
He had heard horror stories; especially in the area of debris. He heard that in Miami-Dade
a large request was denied because the debris was not disposed of correctly. St. Lucie
County completed the audit process for debris; and it went well. They hope to do better in
the future.
Mr. Hensley asked if it would be possible that they award more money in an audit. Mr.
Hoeffner answered that it did happen. The group he has been working with has been very
positive. They gave more in certain areas but took it away in others.
Mr. Wells asked what types of things are not covered. Ms. Outlaw answered that the
deductible on buildings is not covered. They do not cover any maintenance items. There
was some of that at the stadium. They typically do not cover landscaping.
Mr. Hoeffner added that with Tropical Storm Fay a lot of the culverts are not being
covered. Because of the age, they say it is maintenance. The County may appeal those.
During an emergency, there are 17 Emergency Support Function (ESF) groups. If the
need exceeds the capacity of the local level ability, they can call the State ESF group.
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 3
Mr. Mundt asked about the emergency food expiration dates. Ms. Outlaw said there were
some MREs and water out of date last year. She has not checked the current supply. Mr.
Hoeffner added that the need has decreased since more of the local stores have had
generators installed. Mr. Hensley added that the person in charge of that area would
know. Ms. Outlaw said the provisions are stored at the Logistics Center. The manager
there is the most knowledgeable about the supplies.
Mr. Hensley clarified that all the agencies on Slide 11 would be eligible for some of the
grant money. Mr. Mundt asked about distributing the money from grants. Mr. Hoeffner
answered that they apply for three or four mitigation grants each year. The funding for the
primary one becomes available after any declared disaster. There is a formula. Seven
percent of total damage is allocated to mitigation. Recently, they are learning that the
damages are not as severe as originally estimated.
The allocations for Frances, Jeanne and Wilma were close to $24,000,000. Governor
Bush decided to take half of the mitigation money for hardening of low-income housing.
After a storm, FEMA comes in and does a damage assessment to determine if a federal
disaster should be declared. The declaration is based on a formula. County staff assists
with the assessment.
Ms. Outlaw added that we got the reimbursement for debris removal that we requested
from FEMA.
Mr. Rodriguez asked if the Fairgrounds would be used for debris again. Mr. Hoeffner
answered probably not. They are looking for alternatives.
Mr. Hensley asked if a plan is required and there is not one, would FEMA not pay any. Mr.
Hoeffner doubts that would happen. He understands that Florida communities need a
plan; but other areas do not. FEMA’s guidelines are the same for the nation. He thinks
they will use a motivation plan.
Mr. Lounds asked about requests from other entities. They submit their requests and are
issued checks. The County only submits damage reports for the County. Ms. Hensley
explained the criteria for the School Board.
Mr. Wells asked who is responsible for the Public Service Announcements (PSAs) about
getting debris cut early. What impact does that have on FEMA? Ms. Outlaw thinks the
Landfill and the County did press releases. Mr. Wells asked if that would be part of the
debris plan. Ms. Outlaw answered that the plan is in process; and she has not seen it. Mr.
West added that FEMA pays for a certain number of passes on debris pickup. It was
coordinated with the landfill.
Mr. Kurek asked about County land, private property and permits if the Fairgrounds is not
used for debris. Mr. Hoeffner said that is what will be discussed during the next few
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 4
months. In the past, some parks and school facilities were designated as possible sites.
They would prefer not to use those.
Mr. Lounds is concerned because of economic conditions. Are we able to respond
adequately? Will there be a reduction in response due to financial restraints? Ms. Outlaw
hopes there would not be a reduction; but is unable to answer without knowing the type of
emergency. We probably would not see a lag or gap in service. The employees that are
gone did not have a critical role in hurricane preparedness. Mr. Lounds is concerned
about truck drivers and heavy equipment operators. He thinks Fort Pierce Utilities and
Florida Power and Light should be asked how well they could respond under current
conditions.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
th
Mr. Pancoast made a motion to approve the February 20 meeting minutes. Mr. Rodriguez
seconded the motion and the minutes were unanimously approved.
DEBT SERVICE & CAPITAL PROJECT FUNDS
Information was handed out to the members (see attached).
SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS
Mr. Hensley had a request from a member of the Committee before the meeting to discuss
School Resource Officers (SROs). The members were sent a copy of a letter from the
School Board (see attached). Ms. Outlaw asked the members to take a look at the options
and comment on them or make other suggestions to resolve the funding issue. Mr. Lounds
said he attended the School Board’s presentation and felt the Committee should lend
some support and ideas to Ms. Outlaw. He thought they should be creative with funding
ideas. Ms. Outlaw is open for input. The Board of County Commissioners has not yet
considered options. A presentation by Dr. Miller and maybe Dr. Lannon is scheduled.
After the Board of County Commissioners hears the presentation, she assumes they will
give direction. She did ask the County Attorney to look at the second potential solution
and he answered that it was not an option.
Mr. Mundt asked if Staff has any recommendations at this time. Ms. Outlaw answered that
she is not able to make suggestions at this point in the budget process. The County
Administrator’s budget reviews will begin in the next few weeks. After direction from the
Board of County Commissioners, she will be able to check to see if the County can absorb
any more of the cost. The final decision is with the Board of County Commissioners.
Mr. Wells asked about grants that he learned about at a convention. Would they be
available? Ms. Outlaw said they have received information about grants and forwarded
them to the Sheriff’s office. She was introduced to their grants writer and he is vigorously
pursuing the opportunities to identify funding for SROs and other activities.
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 5
Mr. Mundt asked about income from grow houses. Mr. Wilson answered that there was not
any in County cases. The City of Port St. Lucie tried; but he does not know how
successful they were.
Mr. Lounds asked for more explanation on why the County could not have an Municipal
Service Taxing Units (MSTU) for nurses and SROs. Ms. Outlaw explained that her
comments were not related to a potential MSTU. She was talking about a portion of the
fees from traffic fines, etc. The County does have the authority; but the Board of County
Commissioners would have to make that decision. If they did want to have an MSTU, they
would have to decide if they would want to do a resolution or have a referendum. If a
referendum would be needed, timing would be an issue. The School Board’s fiscal year is
July 1 – June 30.
Mr. Lounds summed up that an MSTU would be raising taxes. He asked if there was any
room in the County sales tax to add. Ms. Gouin explained that there was a referendum for
the last MSTU for Parks. There was not a referendum for Transit. They got the cities to
buy into it, and they did it by resolution. There is room for an MSTU. The countywide is
currently 6.46 mills. Mr. Hensley asked about the cap. It is 10 mills. You have a couple,
the MSTU and countywide.
Mr. Mundt asked if the increase would apply to commercial and residential. What rate
increase would get $3,000,000? It would apply to both. Ms. Gouin answered the question
about the rate.
Mr. Hensley asked if the current Board of County Commissioners’ budget has a line for
SROs. It does not. The County funds a portion through the Sheriff’s Office. The City of
Fort Pierce started helping the past year.
Ms. Outlaw added that the Board of County Commissioners realizes that it is a critical
service. She believes they are committed to keeping the program in place. How it will be
funded, is what they will have to decide. Mr. Hensley agreed with Ms. Miller’s letter that it is
not only good for the schools; it is good for the community. It helps in crime prevention
and creating a positive image with kids.
Mr. Pancoast said every year they have to look for the money. He agrees that it is critical.
Maybe there should be a partnership with the other entities involved and a line item
should be added.
Mr. Lounds said the SRO program works. He thinks a way should be found so they don’t
have to go through the agony every year of finding a source of payment. We have got to
stop the violence. He thinks we should find a way to fund it on a repetitive basis.
Mr. Kurek asked about the process for an MSTU. Ms. Outlaw explained that if the Board of
County Commissioners agreed to an MSTU and elected to not go out for a referendum,
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 6
they would just have to get a buy-in from the cities and do it by resolution.
Mr. Lounds thinks they need to know exactly how much is needed. Mr. Wilson said the
total cost is around $5,000,000. Ms. Hensley said the total is $5,400,000 for the level of
service from the year before last. There was a $2.7 million split.
Mr. Lounds asked about adding nurses as part of the safety package. Mr. Kurek did not
think they should. Ms. Hensley said it is the Health Department’s responsibility.
Mr. Kurek asked if only Sheriff’s deputies are SROs. Mr. Wilson answered that there is a
partnership with Port St. Lucie and Fort Pierce Police Departments. The program is
through the Sheriff’s Office.
Mr. Kurek thinks there should be just one in charge if an MSTU is done. He feels the
nurses are a separate issue. He thinks the only way to avoid funding being an issue every
year, as it has the past 20, is an MSTU. SROs are great people. More than just law
enforcement, they are teachers and mentors. The Sheriff has done a good job picking
great people.
Mr. Mundt asked Ms. Hensley about the $5.4 million number. It is the SROs. The $2.7
million is the half the School Board was paying. Ms. Hensley said that money is gone. No
group has the money in their budget.
Mr. Mundt thinks an MSTU would be more palatable and more consistent than sales tax.
Mr. Lounds asked why. Everybody pays sales tax. Mr. Mundt answered that it is not as
reliable. You can adjust the millage rate on MSTUs if necessary. Ms. Gouin explained
that you could not use a sales tax for operations. The sales tax the School Board has can
only be used for capital.
Mr. Lounds asked about the cost of the nursing program. Ms. Hensley said the School
Board’s portion is $500,000. They have very few Registered Nurses in the schools. They
are the responsibility of the Health Department. Because of drastic cuts in the Health
Department budget, the Children’s Services Council, School Board and the County came
up with a way to put some nurses in the schools for a front line defense. That money does
not exist anymore.
Mr. Lounds asked if they were necessary. Ms. Hensley answered that they had caught a
lot of things so that we have not had what some other Counties have had; like outbreaks of
MRSA. They are a front line defense. We do have aides in all the schools. We have
three and one half Registered Nurses. The ratio is not the best.
Mr. Hensley asked how much the Health Department pays. Ms. Hensley explained that the
School Board and Health Department each pay half for some. One is divided into thirds.
The School Board’s share is between $300,000 and $500,000 depending on the level of
expertise for the nurses.
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 7
Mr. Lounds asked how a $5.5 to $6 million MSTU would affect a tax bill. Ms. Hensley gave
an example from the Children Services Council.
Mr. Mundt asked if there were alternatives to an MSTU. Ms. Outlaw answered that for any
additional expense the County picks up, there will have to be an offsetting cut to balance it.
The revenue is less. Ms. Gouin added that even if you found it, it would be a one-time
revenue source.
Ms. Gouin said an MSTU to generate $6 million would cost about $69.50 for a $250,000
home. Mr. Mundt asked for an explanation. It generates less because of property values.
Mr. Lounds summarized that about $70 per year for a $250,000 home would pay for the
SRO program. When asked if it was a motion, he asked for discussion. It was decided to
discuss a motion.
Mr. Lounds made a motion that the Committee recommends to the Board of County
Commissioners that they investigate using an MSTU to fund the SRO and possible nurses
programs for the school system. Mr. Pancoast made a second to the motion, with
discussion.
Mr. Kurek said the nurses program is a small amount of money in the scheme of things. It
is for the welfare and safety of the children. He hates the idea of raising taxes and is sure
there will be some abuse from citizens. The headlines from the morning paper said
schools are closing and they are losing teachers. That probably means problems will
increase because of higher populations in the schools.
Mr. Wells said he does not have kids; so why does he have to pay school taxes. Mr.
Lounds feels the SROs help you to be safe in the street and have healthier kids running
around the streets. He made his opinion very clear.
Mr. Kurek said it is a choice to live here or not and to have your child in public or private
school. You can’t tax parents separately for education. Mr. Wells said it has been an
argument for years.
Mr. Kurek feels the MSTU would solve an issue that has been a problem for years. He
would support it.
Ms. Ferrick asked about the funding for nurses and the Health Department budget. Ms.
Gouin said the County would transfer the money to the Health Department. The County is
currently funding the Health Department. The Health Department pays the nurses. It
would not be another layer for the County to pay.
Mr. Mundt said it is a community issue, and it leads to public safety. He supports it.
Citizens’ Budget Committee
March 20, 2009
Page 8
Mr. Lounds said we rely on our schools to do more than just teach. He feels it is important
to have qualified nurses in the schools looking at the health side of the health and safety
issues. They go hand in hand.
Mr. Mundt called a question.
Mr. Hensley repeated the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Mr. Mundt left the meeting.
Mr. Lounds asked Ms. Outlaw how the Committee could help. Ms. Outlaw did not think it
was necessary for the members to meet with the Commissioners with her. The item is on
the agenda next Tuesday. She would imagine the Board of County Commissioners would
accept comments from the public and the Committee. She will pass on the information
about the action the Committee took on the item.
Mr. Hensley said they would try to get someone there.
OTHER ISSUES
Mr. Hensley asked if there was any further business. The Debt Service information was
sent by email.
Mr. Lounds asked if Ms. Outlaw is still looking at 20-22% reduction. Ms. Outlaw answered
that right now they are basing their predictions on 20%.
Ms. Outlaw pointed out that the Clerk of the Court was in attendance. At the last month’s
meeting there was discussion about him doing a presentation about investments. Mr.
Hensley asked if he would be willing. Clerk Smith answered that he would be delighted.
Ms. Outlaw and Clerk Smith will decide if it will be in April or May.
Mr. Hensley asked that questions be sent to him or Ms. Outlaw.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Hensley thanked everyone for attending and adjourned the meeting at 8:38 a.m.
Ms. Outlaw also expressed her appreciation.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin