HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 06-19-2009
CITIZENS’ BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: June 19, 2009
Conference Room 3
Meeting convened at 7:31 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chair
Dan Kurek
Edward Lounds
Craig Mundt
Nathaniel “Nate” Wells
Patricia “Pat” Ferrick
Edith Hepburn
John Culverhouse
Bill Casey
Richard Pancoast
MEMBERS ABSENT: Randy Ezell
Thomas Hickey
Jay L. McBee
Bobby Rodriguez
Steven Messer
OTHERS PRESENT: Faye Outlaw Lee Ann Lowery
Marie Gouin Jennifer Hill
Bill Hammer Christopher Steers
John Ferrick Laurie Waldie
Tom Bowes Anita Neal
Diana Lewis Leo Cordeiro
Debbie Brisson Carl Holeva
Robert O’Sullivan Erick Gill
Sophia Holt Shane DeWitt
Garry Wilson Roger Shinn
Beth Ryder Charlotte Lombard
Jim David Susan Kilmer
Dennis Wetzel Jack Southard
Karen Smith Robin Meyer
Bill Hoeffner Don West
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order at 7:31 a.m. and introduced the new member,
John Culverhouse.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Citizens’ Budget Committee
June 19, 2009
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Mr. Mundt made comments on the May 15 minutes. On page 2, Clerk Joseph E. Smith
should be identified as Clerk of the Court. Near the center of page 3, the minutes say that
Mr. Conklin is chair of the Investment Committee. Commissioner Lewis told Mr. Mundt that
Mr. Conklin is resigning from another committee. Mr. Mundt is concerned that he might be
leaving the Investment Committee also. If he is leaving, Mr. Mundt would like to know who
the replacement will be and the methodology of selection. Insure should be ensure in the
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6 paragraph of page 5. In the next to last paragraph of page 7, the subject of the minutes
is the Jail Medical Wing. Mr. Mundt asked Mr. Wilson if they had tried to negotiate with
hospitals other than Lawnwood and the cost of deputies to accompany the prisoners. Mr.
Wilson explained that in most cases they try to take the prisoners to the closest facility,
which is normally Lawnwood. They may end up in HDA, but as a rule they are not taken
out of the County. They have not tried to negotiate with any other hospitals.
Mr. Lounds made a motion to approve the minutes with the corrections. Mr. Pancoast
seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
2010 RECOMMENDED BUDGET - Faye Outlaw & Marie Gouin
Before starting her presentation, Ms. Outlaw introduced the new Assistant County
Administrator, Christopher Steers.
One of Ms. Outlaw’s goals is to make the link between the fund balance and the ensuing
year’s budget, in an effort to help everyone have a clearer understanding of how fund
balance is factored into the budget.
Ms. Outlaw showed a few slides from a presentation made at the April meeting (see
attached first seven slides).
To show information on the proposed budget, Ms. Outlaw gave the Overview & Breakdown
2009/2010 Proposed Budget presentation attached. Mr. Hensley asked if she would prefer
to have questions at the end of the presentation. She said she would, but was flexible.
OTHER ISSUES
Mr. Hensley said that Ms. Lowery had sent him some information on operational
procedures for advisory boards. He asked the secretary to send the information (see
attached) to the members. If the members have comments, they should contact Ms.
Lowery.
Ms. Outlaw continued her presentation. After the last slide, she gave the highlights. The
County continues to be in good financial health. Emergency reserves are higher than they
have been in history. We are balanced for 2009-2010. She thinks we will be able to
maintain a good level of service. She did underscore that the County is still facing
financial challenges. No one is in a good position to predict whether the economy has
stabilized or will continue to decline. We have to be flexible, watch and try to project. With
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June 19, 2009
Page 3
fund balance decreasing, there will be less to rely on for operations. She will have to
readjust. After budget reviews, she will start looking at where she is with the General Fund
operations and plan for Strategic Planning. She wants to bring a healthy discussion to the
Board on County operations. They will have to look at further reductions or changes to
programs in a fall Strategic Planning session. She wants to be ahead in the 2010-2011
budget review process.
Mr. Hensley asked the members to start at the top of the presentation with their questions
and comments.
Mr. Lounds asked if any Counties do not accept State mandates. Ms. Outlaw does not
know that it would be legal to give it back. She is not aware of any County that refused to
carry out a State mandate. He said it is going to get worse.
Mr. Lounds asked about reducing employees by 15. Ms. Outlaw said it has been done.
Mr. Wells asked about new positions and staffing levels. Ms. Outlaw feels we are at the
lowest staffing level with which we can effectively operate. She has stopped completely
freezing positions. As people leave, very few have, she is looking at them on a case-by-
case basis and sometimes approving filling the positions because she can’t continue to
ask people to do two and three jobs. There is a point of diminishing returns and we are at
that point. One of the major challenges she faces is the fact that the Board is incredibly
progressive. They are making efforts to do something about the local economy. They
committed going into this year, because we are down 1/3 of the workforce, to not bringing
any new tasks on staff; but they have not been able to hold to the commitment because
they felt compelled to do something about the local economy. We have more than 80 new
initiatives on an overloaded workforce. She is trying to better balance. She plans to
address the situation with the Board in Strategic Planning. She cannot in good conscience
continue to pile on and pile on.
Mr. Hensley asked if the Economic Development position is a change in policy. Ms.
Outlaw said the Board increased the funding to the Economic Development Council (EDC).
The incentive part was retained by the County. EDC took over the County’s role in
recruitment. The Job Growth Incentive Grants (JGIG) and tax abatement part is still being
done by the County. The function is being done by the Grants Director, who is also taking
care of Federal Emergency Management Association (FEMA) financial recovery. He is
overwhelmed. Another responsibility is stimulus and normal grants. The Grants
Department does an outstanding job. She cannot continue to have the Director be in
quicksand. Cultural Affairs was also housed in Grants. She will move that under the new
office that will be part of County Administration.
Mr. Hensley noticed the projected revenue of $55,000,000 in grants. He asked how many
people are in that department. Ms. Outlaw answered that the Grants Director had two
Grants Resource Developers until about two month ago. The Board approved a third
position. There are now three writers and the Director. Mr. Hensley noted the
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June 19, 2009
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$55,000,000 is nearly 10% of the projected budget.
Mr. Mundt asked if $38,000,000 was the correct amount that Grants brought in the past
year. Mr. Hoeffner answered that the Grants Department generated $38,000,000. Other
departments secured additional grants. Mr. Mundt noticed the difference in $38,000,000
generated by Grants and the total projected amount of $55,000,000; which they expect to
have from all the departments combined.
Mr. Lounds asked about funding for the special election. Ms. Outlaw said a request would
be taken to the Board at the next meeting to take $150,000 out of contingency to fund the
special election.
Mr. Mundt asked for an explanation of the internal transfers. Ms. Gouin said some items
are transferred internally between funds. It is not new dollars. An example is impact fees,
collected in one fund because they must be separated, are transferred to another account
for a road project.
Mr. Hensley asked about the projected fund balance. He knows there is carryover but it
looks like a lot. Ms. Outlaw said the fund balance was about 37% of the current budget.
The number will begin to come down. Because we have put a hold on expenditures, the
number is fairly high. Mr. Hensley added that it was due to cost cutting.
Mr. Lounds asked about St. Lucie County paying 45% of the Court Administration costs
when there are four counties. Ms. Outlaw answered that it is based on population.
Mr. Wells asked about the impact of impact fees on foreclosed properties. Ms. Outlaw
explained that foreclosed properties have no impact on impact fees because they are
collected at the time of the building permit. Because there has been a substantial drop in
development, the impact fees are not what was projected. Residential and commercial
development has dropped off. Commercial seems to be slightly better than residential.
Mr. Wells has noticed model homes surrounded by empty acres. Ms. Outlaw said that is
impact fees that we won’t collect. We are finding that where there is residential
development, individuals are not in a position to pay the fees. They have put liens on
properties. It has been such a challenge to collect the fees; the Board approved a
payment plan for the first time in the County’s history.
Mr. Mundt asked if there was a reduced volume at the Landfill and if they had to increase
fees. He wanted the same information about the golf course. Mr. Cordeiro answered that
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there will be an increase effective October 1 from 32 to 41. They have been running on
reserves the last year. They are 80% down on construction and demolition and 36% down
on class one garbage. They are okay for this year on reserves. How they come out on the
leachate issue will affect next year’s numbers.
Mr. Mundt noticed it took $24,000,000 to make the 2009-2010 budget and Ms. Outlaw just
has $5,000,000 for the next year. It looks like a big spread and he wondered how she is
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June 19, 2009
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going to make the number.
Ms. Outlaw said it was an excellent point. Part of the reason she is starting an analysis of
County operations right after budget reviews is because of that. The general fund balance
used this year to balance the budget was about $50,000,000; for next year we are
projecting $24,000,000 and $5,600,000 for 2010-2011. She does think the $5,600,000 will
increase but the trend is for the number for the year to decline. Several factors will
determine the final amount. She could not say then how she will address it. She will have
to do the analysis of the operations. She plans to be very methodical about going through
almost every aspect of the General Fund operations. She wants to be as efficient as can
be. Then she wants to present a plan to the Board. We are going to be challenged.
Mr. Mundt says it is a big gap. He thinks she has done a tremendous job with the current
staffing level. He does not think there is any more room in the current staffing level. He
has not heard any problems in the community about lack of services. Finding that money,
if you stay at the current staffing level and expenses, will be a real challenge. He is sure
she is up to it. He is interested to hear the resolution and offered to help.
Ms. Ferrick asked about the two-year funding on the Community Redevelopment Agency
(CRA) projects. She thought the previous property taxes stood stationary and any
increase went to fund the CRA. But she saw that money from the Fine and Forfeiture Fund
also went to pay for the CRA activities. Ms. Outlaw added that the Fine and Forfeiture
dollars are generated from taxes. Ms. Ferrick is right about how they are generated.
When the CRA is created, the taxes in that area are held flat and as the values (tax
revenue) increase, that increment is given to the Cities. There is always concern when the
Cities want to expand their CRA areas, because it decreases the amount the County has
for operations. Ms. Ferrick does not favor CRAs for that reason. She asked if the statute
says that Fine and Forfeiture is part of that. Ms. Gouin said it is taxes. Ms. Hill explained
that the Fine and Forfeiture Fund is funded primarily by property taxes. Ms. Outlaw added
that it is tax revenue that is put in that fund. You do not usually see that level of detail.
Mr. Mundt heard that Fort Pierce is talking about increasing the size of their CRA area. He
asked if it had been factored into the projections and if Ms. Outlaw knew the status. She
does not know if it has been submitted to the State. Her number takes into account the
CRA as defined last year. Ms. Hill added that if they created another district, last year
would be the base and if the property values go down, they don’t get anything. The first
year they only get taxes on the property value increase.
Mr. Casey left the meeting at 8:45.
Mr. Lounds asked about Enterprise Funds paying their own way. Would there have to be
significant increases made on building codes for it to cover its loss? Ms. Outlaw answered
that the Board has the discretion to increase building permit fees. She does not anticipate
that they would because they are trying to balance how much they can pass on and
collect.
Mr. Lounds asked the gate cost for Tradition Field. Mr. Bowes answered that Spring
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June 19, 2009
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Training starts at $15 - $25, $6 for the berm. They have many promotions. Mr. Bowes
gave details on many of the services the complex provides. It is the hub of rehabilitation.
They are negotiating a concert in the fall.
Mr. Lounds said they have to keep in mind the economic development that Tradition Field
brings to the area. If it is not entirely funding itself, at least it is feeding the economic
wheel.
Mr. Lounds said there are some committees working on equestrian issues for the
Fairgrounds. The Fairgrounds is on the move and it could be money making, but it will
take time. The committee and Parks department are working diligently. Don’t give up on
the Fairgrounds. As other places get out of the equestrian business for development, it
will help the usage here. There is a lot of money in that right now. It would also spin off on
other things.
Mr. Lounds asked that the Committee look at impact fees. The Planning and Zoning
Committee voted to ask the Board to review the department breakdowns of fees for law
enforcement, libraries and schools. He understands that you can’t raise a fee without
going back to the ordinance. He would like the Committee to look and see if we are
collecting enough and if it can be raised. He has mixed emotions. An impact fee can slow
down the economy. We have a lot of houses to fill. Business and industry have to come
here. There is not a County more adaptable to good business than this one. We have
everything to offer: the port, the rail, the roads, the educational facilities and the research
facilities. Economic Development has got to sell our sizzle to get industry to come here.
He does not know how this Committee can help to do that.
Mr. Mundt asked about the Water and Sewer District loans. Are they anticipating any
other capital improvement projects? Ms. Outlaw said they are not taking on anymore that
would increase the debt. We have a couple projects programmed that will be carried out.
If stimulus funding was received, others may be done. None will go to the debt.
Mr. Mundt asked about the ½ cent sales tax. Ms. Gouin said the ½ cent that they have
been collecting will be allocated to the Unincorporated Fund instead of the General Fund.
The only additional tax is for the School Board. The County is not suggesting any tax
increases.
Ms. Ferrick asked if the Growth Management fund is breaking even. Ms. Outlaw explained
that part of their operation is funded out of 102, where we have a deficit. Growth
Management is not set up as an enterprise operation where expenses are to be covered
by revenue. The Building Department is funded by building permit fees. Growth
Management is funded in part by the Municipal Service Taxing Units.
Mr. Wells asked about annexation and street lighting. Ms. Gouin answered that the
Property Appraiser determines the value for the subdivision to pay the light bills. It is a
separate district. Ms. Outlaw asked if a subdivision that has a street lighting district is
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June 19, 2009
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annexed into a City, does the County still get that revenue. Ms. Gouin believes they are all
in unincorporated areas.
Mr. Kurek said he lives in Port St. Lucie and his are collected for the City. He asked if the
lighting districts have caps. Ms. Hill said we are not at the cap for any of them next year,
but we are proposing that we are going to have to have a higher millage rate. Ms. Gouin
said she is working with the County Attorney to change from a millage based to special
assessment. Then everybody would pay the same dollars. The problem is that some
properties that have been there for a long time are valued at less than $50,000 and are not
paying any taxes. If you put on a special assessment, they would have to.
Mr. Wells said abandoned homes are causing an increase to services for Mosquito Control
but the revenue is decreasing. Ms. Gouin said it is funded with tax dollars. As the values
decrease, the tax dollars will decrease. Mr. Wells asked if she would propose fee
assessment. You can’t charge a fee because you are paying with tax dollars.
Ms. Ferrick asked if the golf course is breaking even. Ms. Outlaw said they are doing
better. Ms. Brisson said the manager is excellent. He brings his operating budget in-line
with the revenues. They look at them weekly and make cuts where necessary. Ms. Gouin
added that it is tight, but they are maintaining.
Mr. Hensley reminded the group that the Fairgrounds is not an Enterprise Fund. It was not
expected to generate money but it would be nice if it could break even. It does look better
for next year.
Mr. Hensley asked if there were other issues. The July meeting is canceled. He asked the
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members to try to attend budget hearings starting July 13. Mr. Hensley asked Mr. Lounds
if he wanted a discussion on impact fees in August. Mr. Lounds asked Ms. Outlaw if she
anticipates more requests to look at impact fees. He thinks the Committee could look at
them and give staff support to go to the Board. Ms. Outlaw said we have an impact fee
Study done by Dr. Nicholas. Ms. Outlaw asked if he was talking about that, or if he meant
looking at new fees where we don’t have them. Mr. Lounds meant looking at the current
rate for impact fees, not how they are figured, but the individual breakdown in roads,
buildings, parks, schools, etc., as to what those ratios are. Ms. Outlaw thought that part of
what Dr. Nicholas researched was the methodology, but he went an extra step and
proposed an increase in the impact fees for certain areas. Mr. Lounds said roads, public
buildings and schools increased. Mr. Lounds said that if it is not a concern, he does not
want to create one. Ms. Outlaw explained the dilemma. Dr. Nicholas is probably the
expert, and she is not certain staff could do the calculations. Mr. Lounds does not want to
create problems for staff.
Mr. Mundt asked if Ms. Outlaw is comfortable with the suggestions from the study. Ms.
Outlaw said she did read the study, and she accepts his projections because he is a noted
and credible expert. Mr. Mundt asked if he spoke with her and staff during his study. Ms.
Outlaw answered that he spent intimate time with staff in development of the study.
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Mr. Lounds said we are below average for the State for impact fees.
Ms. Ferrick said with statutes being changed, you may find out that you can collect less.
You might be opening a can of worms you don’t want to open at the present time.
Mr. Hensley asked for questions or comments for the August meeting. We will probably
talk about the budget again. Ms. Outlaw responded that we probably will.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 9:05 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin