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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 02-19-2010 CITIZENS' BUDGET COMMITTEE Meeting Date: February 19, 2010 Conference Room 3 Meeting convened at 7:32 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: MEMBERS ABSENT: OTHERS PRESENT: CALL TO ORDER Carl Hensley, Chair Dana McSweeney Craig Mundt Patricia "Pat" Ferrick John Culverhouse Richard Pancoast Jay L. McBee (7:37) Dan Kurek Edith Hepburn (7:33) Edward Lounds (7:34) Ron Knaggs Nathaniel "Nate" Wells Bill Casey Randy Ezell Faye Outlaw Marie Gouin Carl Holeva John Ferrick Paul Hiott Kathryn Hensley Mark DiMascio Mike Monahan Bill Hammer Beth Ryder Audrey Jackson Jack Southard Don West Lee Ann Lowery Jennifer Hill Mark Satterlee Laurie Waldie Robert O'Sullivan Roger Shinn Bill Hoeffner Derrick Dukes Toby Long Sophia Holt Jeff Furst Diana Lewis Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order at 7:32 a.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Mr. Mundt made a motion to accept the January 15, 2010, minutes. Mr. Pancoast Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 2 seconded the motion, and it passed unanimously. Mr. Hensley announced that Bobby Rodriguez resigned from the Committee. He also advised the members that they need to notify him for an excused absence if they were not able to attend. If you miss three out of six months, you are considered resigned. BUDGET PREPARATION Ms. Gouin handed out examples of the forms the departments will be asked to complete (see attached). The budget kickoff was Monday, February 15th. Budgets are due March 15th. The Basis of Program form will be used to justify expenses. Ms. Outlaw added that the non-profits were also being asked to complete the form. Ms. Gouin agreed and said the mandated judicial agencies were also asked. The Constitutionals had not been asked, but she will follow up with them. Revenues are expected to decrease. Ms. Outlaw added that revenues are sometimes inflated. When they budget that amount, it sets the budget up for a deficit. She wants the departments to provide data analysis so they can do a better job of projecting revenues. Mr. Mundt asked if historical data shows the projections were higher than the actuals. Ms. Outlaw answered yes. Ms. Gouin added that revenues are sliding. The secretary will email the budget calendar to the members. Mr. Knaggs asked if there had been discussion on looking at non-enterprise departments that maybe should be charging for services. Ms. Outlaw answered that it was studied before the 2008 Strategic Planning session. There were not many opportunities. She has looked at one operation this year, SLCTV. They are expanding the studio and have a number of opportunities. She asked Media Relations to do a business plan to see if they could generate enough revenues to cover their expenses, so she could get them out of the General Fund. She is starting the process. OTHER ISSUES Ms. Outlaw has finalized the realignment, so she wanted to walk the Committee through it (see attached). The top sheet was from Strategic Planning. The Committee had seen it before. She asked if there were questions. She made the point that the numbers were General Fund and Fine and Forfeiture. The slides were from her presentations to the employees the day before. The General Fund number is added to the total on page nine. Mr. Knaggs asked if the numbers for the funds were net of their reserves. Ms. Outlaw answered the reserves were not included. She used the Building Code as an example. Mr. Hensley asked if it was the plan of the Board to use all reserves and not have anything to fall back on. Ms. Outlaw answered that it is not the Board's plan. They looked to see if there was a standard on how much should be reserved. They did not find a clear standard for some divisions. So they took a look at history and developed a standard they are going to discuss with the Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 3 Board. Mr. Knaggs asked if they were going to establish a reserve funding level for each fund. Ms. Outlaw clarified that they are going to recommend they establish a threshold. When the department comes up on that amount, they will have to make cuts or increase the millage. Ms. Outlaw anticipates having those discussions as part of the May Strategic Planning sessions. The threshold amounts would be in available for the next budget year. Ms. Outlaw has stressed to the Board that we need a sustainable budget. The recurring expenses have to be in line with the money we bring in. She has received suggestions from several sources and done extensive research of other governmental entities throughout the state. She has a proposal for the Board to consider that would realign the County departments from 18 operating departments down to between eight and ten. She started walking that proposal to the Board. She has had three to four individual briefings with the Commissioners. It appears the Board has agreed to have nine departments. There is still some tweaking to be done. She hopes to have the plan finalized by the end of the day, meet with the Directors and schedule a special Board meeting on the realignment. After the department realignment is completed, Ms. Outlaw will look at divisions. There are now about 38 divisions with managers. She anticipates cutting that number to a number close to half. She explained the phases. Ms. Outlaw's plan is to take the amount trimmed from submitted budgets and add the savings projected from realignment. Then she will look at the Basis of Programs to put together a recommendation for the Board as part of the Strategic Planning session in May. She used the sheet OMB/Purchasing filled out as an example for discussion. Mr. Knaggs thinks she has an excellent approach. He asked the difference in a division and a department. Ms. Outlaw explained a division is part of a department. Mr. Knaggs asked about combining the divisions. Ms. Outlaw answered that she plans to combine the 18 departments into nine if the Board approves. The 38 divisions would be part of one of the nine departments. Then she will look at the division level to see if there is an opportunity to consolidate them. Mr. Knaggs asked when the special Board meeting would be. Ms. Outlaw answered that it has not been set. It should be in the next two weeks. It might be a Tuesday afternoon thing. It would not be an informal meeting. It would have to be a special meeting so they could take action. Mr. Knaggs would like to attend or see it on television if it is public. It will be advertised at least 48 hours in advance. Mr. Knaggs asked if Ms. Outlaw would receive a budget from each department and change the budget to reflect the consolidation when it is approved. She is not going to change the department budgets. She will develop a proposed budget for the Board to approve. Mr. Knaggs asked how the departments will know their budget for day-to-day functions. Ms. Outlaw explained that as soon as she has the Board's final input, she will meet with each department Director. The budgets will not be revised by the realigned Directors, since they have not had experience with new departments, but the Directors will be involved in Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 4 the discussions. Mr. Knaggs thinks it is important that the Directors know what is expected of them. Ms. Outlaw agreed. She gave an example of the County Administrator's office. Ms. Outlaw explained that layoffs would be tied to whatever programs are eliminated. They will be bargaining with the union before they can enforce pay reductions and furloughs. Ms. Outlaw said that if there is 1/3 less employees, the workload will have to be adjusted. The last two years we have cut employees and increased the workload. We will not be able to continue the same workload. She knows that will be difficult for the Board to accept. She expects spirited discussion. Mr. Hensley asked at what step of the process would there be concern for the level of service to the County constituents. Ms. Outlaw answered it would be throughout the process. The last column of the Basis of Program form is Level of Service Impact. That starts the process of documenting the effects. She is anticipating an extensive amount of discussion in Strategic Planning. There will probably be more in the Board budget reviews and public hearings. Mr. Hensley made comments about the concerns of aligning the numbers. The Board will weigh the service impacts. Mr. Knaggs asked the dates of the public hearings. Ms. Outlaw answered September 9th and 23rd. Strategic Planning is open to the public. Mr. Knaggs asked how the Committee inputs to the plan. Ms. Outlaw said the Committee would have to discuss what role they would play. Mr. Knaggs complimented Ms. Outlaw on her methodology. He expects that at some point the official that appointed the members will ask for an opinion. The members need to be informed. Ms. Outlaw said timing may be a factor. In the past, they brought the proposal to the Committee before taking it to the Board. It may require a special meeting. Timing is a challenge. Mr. Hensley asked the Board to send in any questions or suggestions. Mr. Knaggs said it is an overwhelming thing. As a member of the public, he would want to attend the meetings. He wasn't sure of the Committee's role. Mr. Mundt asked, because of the anticipated revenues, if there is a possibility of discussing a millage increase. Ms. Outlaw paused before explaining she has had a broad range of discussions with the Board and will continue. She does not know yet what will be in her proposed sustainability plan. Ms. Outlaw said that while the situation is overwhelming, there is nothing complex about the options. The gap can be closed by cutting expenditures, a combination of cutting expenditures and raising taxes, or not cutting expenses and raising taxes. She plans to keep it as crystal clear as possible to the Board. She knows they have to deal with a lot of policy issues. The options are not complicated. Ms. Ferrick gave some history on the County's millage rate starting in 1994; the highest Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 5 combined millage rate was 7.7 mills. She believes the Committee needs to look at how to generate revenue. They should see what the millage rate was when the property values were lower before. She asked if we were still under State legislation that said we could only get 91 % of the roll back rate. Ms. Outlaw said we could go to roll back. Ms. Ferrick said the Committee and Commissioners need to look at how much revenue would be generated if the millage rate were increased % a mill. They will have to cut or increase somewhere. She has read that some properties are beginning to be sold. They need to look at the overall picture and not bury their heads in the sand. She understands they want to say no taxes, but it is just not working. Maybe they should go to the public and see how they feel. They may not want services decreased. Mr. Pancoast wanted to strongly echo Ms. Ferrick's comments. He thinks the Committee was set up to let the Board know what the people in the County are thinking. He is hearing from his friends that they do not want services cut. They do not want tax increases. But as the value of property goes down, the taxes they are paying go down. He doesn't think most people would even see a small millage increase. They may still see a cut. Ms. Ferrick thinks the Committee should put together a picture of the history showing past millage rates and services. Mr. Lounds asked if Building and Code are separate divisions. Ms. Outlaw answered that they are one division of the Public Works department. He asked about the educational differences in a building inspector and code enforcement officer. When Ms. Outlaw worked for the City of West Palm they were combined, the building inspectors' function is much more technical than code. Code inspectors enforce the County code. Building inspectors get into the State building codes. A building inspector can easily do the job of a code inspector. A code inspector cannot do the inspector job unless he has building certification. She has not looked at combining the two operations. She has looked at a realignment of the operation as part of the first phase because of the deficit. Mr. Lounds asked about the level of permits compared to four to five years ago. Ms. Outlaw estimated they are down 85 - 90%. Some months there are no building permits. The highest she has seen on the single family side is five. Mr. Lounds said a building inspector should have time on his hands and be able to service a permit request. Ms. Outlaw said they should be expedited because there is no backlog in the system. Mr. Lounds does not understand how they can cut enough out of the budget to get to where they have to be without increasing taxes. It isn't there. He knows it is not her decision, but she has to give the Board information. He thinks Ms. Ferrick had a good point. The Committee needs to back up Ms. Outlaw to say we can't get there from here. He is concerned about service and morale. Ms. Outlaw said it is a painful reality. The Board has to decide if there will be revenues or cuts in services. The other issue is workload. We cannot take on 82 new programs like we did this year. The Board is very creative and wants the County to be a leader. That translates into workload. Mr. Lounds wondered if the Board would listen to the Committee. Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 6 Mr. Kurek does not think we should use all the reserve money. He thinks that is bad business. If that continues, we will have nothing. Some could be used, but sucking it dry is a bad business decision even if it is government. Mr. Hensley said the Committee has some time before the May Strategic Planning meeting to made recommendations. He is hearing from the members that they think the Commissioners should consider a millage rate increase. Mr. Culverhouse said obviously some cuts have to be made, but going from 18 to nine departments is remarkable. Without cuts from Constitutional Officers, he doesn't see any other alternative. He doesn't enjoy paying taxes anymore than the next person, but he does enjoy driving on paved roads and having the police come when he calls 9-1-1. Mr. Mundt thinks we are behind the curve. He would like to hear if Ms. Outlaw will come back to the Committee with a list of must-have services and areas of possible adjustments to get input from them as representatives of the community. If they feel the impact would be unacceptable, they could send a message to the Board. Mr. Hensley said the plan was to combine the departments, and then work on divisions. So there is a little breathing space. Consolidating divisions would be where services would be cut. Mr. Mundt asked if Ms. Outlaw could bring the information back to them to discuss. What she would prefer to bring is the list of mandated services. The discretionary services will be first recommended for elimination. She can bring that back to the Committee before it goes to the Board. Mr. Hensley asked about timing. Ms. Outlaw said she has to work through the timing, and there may have to be a special meeting. It sounds like there is a willingness to have one. Mr. Pancoast brought up how many had been cut from County staff. Ms. Outlaw said 263. Mr. Pancoast said every operation has fat but sooner or later you start cutting into what you need for a base. We have good people in a lot of jobs with education and knowledge of local issues. At what point do we want to start losing the good people? Some people in the room may not be there next year. Ms. Outlaw said that is the sad reality. Mr. Lounds thinks there are folks in the County that do not understand the urgency of what is happening. There is a long line at the unemployment center. That can be an influence on how a person looks at their current job. If there is a need to go back and look at taxes, he feels they need as much information as Ms. Outlaw can bring them. He thinks everybody should buy into the consolidation plan or make a choice. Mr. Kurek thinks there is a lot of talent around the table, and they could help. He thinks they represent the real people. Each person has a preference. He wants beaches maintained and places to get to the water. Other folks have other priorities. Ms. Outlaw said their help would be at a program or functional level. They have gone through the proposal for the realignment of the departments. The Committee has not seen the proposal. Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 7 Mr. Lounds asked how many building inspectors St. Lucie County has. It was estimated four or five. Mr. Lounds commented on having one building permit for new construction. Ms. Outlaw thanked the Committee for their comments, input and food for thought. We are at a crossroad for our County. It is a painful reality. It will be a painful process. It is gut wrenching to contemplate where we are and the actions that must be taken. Mr. Lounds said that if you take the emotions out of the equation, the answer becomes a lot clearer. Ms. Outlaw said that is like telling her to take being a human out of her body. She tries to do a professional job and be effective. It is painful to think about the County services and programs being cut. Mr. Knaggs asked if there was indication of the State or federal government cutting revenues or adding additional programs. Ms. Outlaw answered that they are not aware of cuts but there is always the possibility of mandates. The Board adopted a resolution opposing a House and Senate bill that would change the pretrial release program. If that was implemented, it would be an additional cost. There are now four initiatives that will be on the ballot in 2010. Two of those would have a cost impact to the County. One would consider a homestead exemption increase to veterans. Ms. Gouin added the other is a cap on increasing values. Because values are going down now, it would not be an impact. Mr. Satterlee added that if Amendment Four passes, requiring a change to the Comprehensive Plan, there would be an impact. Ms. Outlaw said you have to be able to adjust. Ms. Outlaw also informed the Committee of a possible $500,000 cost if the State does not delay a new procedure for the ballot machines for the Supervisor of Elections. There is a new notification that the Supervisor has to send to felons. Mr. Knaggs commented that there is another good reason to have reserve funds. Mr. Hensley reminded the Committee that they are a Sunshine Committee and have open meetings. Mr. Hammer requested time to offer comments on revenue enhancing. Mr. Hammer quickly said taxes are not the only source of revenue. He works with the senior low income population this time of year preparing taxes. He knows their challenges. He did not hear about user fees. The County pays a lot for the beautiful beaches and people come and use them for free. The rest of the world does not necessarily do it that way. He attends the meetings regularly and would be willing to serve if needed. Mr. Hensley asked Ms. Outlaw to call if a special meeting is needed. Ms. Outlaw offered her thanks and said she would put the word out if needed. Ms. Ryder reminded everyone to send back their census form. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 8:40 a.m. Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin Citizens' Budget Committee February 19, 2010 Page 8 The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, March 19, 2010, at 7:30 a.m., in Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration Annex.