HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 03-19-2010
CITIZENS’ BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: March 19, 2010
Conference Room 3
Meeting convened at 7:33 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chair
Nathaniel “Nate” Wells
Craig Mundt
Patricia “Pat” Ferrick
John Culverhouse
Randy Ezell
Dan Kurek
Edith Hepburn
Edward Lounds
Ron Knaggs
MEMBERS ABSENT: Dana McSweeney
Bill Casey
Jay L. McBee
Richard Pancoast
OTHERS PRESENT: Faye Outlaw Lee Ann Lowery
Marie Gouin Jennifer Hill
Carl Holeva Mark Satterlee
John Ferrick Eva O’Donnell
Ryan Strickland Roger Shinn
Garry Wilson Bill Hoeffner
Joe Smith Derrick Dukes
Bill Hammer Liz Martin
Beth Ryder Sophia Holt
Audrey Jackson Jeff Furst
Jack Southard Toby Long
Don West Jim David
Ken Mascara Bob Davis
Shai Frances Karen Smith
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order at 7:33 a.m.
CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS OVERVIEW
Mr. Hensley said that since Mr. Furst asked to make the presentation, he would let him
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March 19, 2010
Page 2
lead off. An Outside Agency Summary was handed out to the members (see attached).
Mr. Furst said that he would make it easy. He knows it is difficult to understand. He would
let each officer tell their part after he told the historical part. He gave details of his
membership on the Committee. Years back things were not good. The Sheriff would not
come to meetings. Relationships between the County and the Constitutionals were
horrific. Tax Collector’s employees were not allowed to communicate with anyone except
the Property Appraiser in the Property Appraiser’s office.
Mr. Furst said some of the best ideas and improvements are the result of working together.
He told of a win-win situation with his department and cars for the Sheriff’s office. He told
how he reduced the automobile cost in his office to about 18% of the former cost. The first
thing he did was change the computer system. His office helped the Tax Collector’s office
until they were able to set up their computer system. It is always easy to know what
someone else could do better. It is interesting how outside people want to tell them what
to do. But they don’t always understand.
Mr. Furst read in the paper that St. Lucie County has one of the highest foreclosure rates
in the State. The courts have gone to the State to get more money to clear the backlog.
Other people are telling the Clerk to cut his budget. People talk to the Supervisor of
Elections about saving money. The City and County could combine elections to save
money. Ms. Walker knows that, but she does not get to make that decision. She could do
it for less if she could put them together. She often gets requests to change the system.
She can’t save money and buy new items to change the system. All the Constitutionals
have things they have to do. Mr. Furst’s office has to produce a tax roll. The Sheriff has to
house the criminals. The court system has to run. The taxes have to be collected. They
are charged with specific responsibilities. Mr. Furst could cut his budget, but not in ways
that would keep him from putting out the tax roll. The areas he could cut are areas he has
expanded that produce revenue. The people and technology he has added, produce
revenue.
Mr. Furst said the Sheriff cannot control how many sick people end up in the jail. It pushes
up his budget. It doesn’t mean they could not do better. They could all do better. In the
past, they worked with Committees and Administrators trying to do it better. The
Constitutionals met to talk about it the week before. The Sheriff’s office does health
insurance better than the rest. Mr. Furst says his health insurance costs are through the
ceiling. He’s been saying it is going to consume public bodies. Health cost for Port St.
Lucie is $15 million. They haven’t reserved for retired employees and they have to fix the
problem. There are big issues and they need to find answers. Make sure that you don’t
get carried away with telling the other group what to do. They can do better and have
worked with Ms. Outlaw who has a horrendous task. They understand it is a tough issue.
Each officer has things they have to make happen. It is easy for outsiders to think a
Constitutional officer could eliminate something when they don’t understand it is not that
easy. If the Committee wants to get to the bottom of it, he thinks they need to invite each
one individually for a full meeting. The Constitutionals will give the time needed to help the
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March 19, 2010
Page 3
Committee understand what they do. Each is unique.
There was a problem with the projector. So as copies were being run of the Tax
Collector’s PowerPoint presentation, the Sheriff was asked to be next.
The Sheriff distributed the attached handout. He gave history of past years’ budget
procedure and told the difference this year. The Sheriff explained that the day after they
submit their budget they start monitoring their expenditures, manpower and needs. He
tasks the four directors who are over the four divisions (Jail, Administration, Law
Enforcement, and Finance and Technology) to oversee the costs, allocations, manpower
and needs of their area. They use the data to decide when to replace positions and to
determine the next year’s budget. They justify needed funds with three factors. The first is
calls for service. In 2001, the calls were approximately 79,000. In 2009, there were
121,000 calls. County population in 2001 was 198,000, last year it was 272,000. The Jail
population in 2001 was 780. In 2009, it was 1,382. It hit an all- time high in 2007 of 1,600
inmates. They were responsible for 11 Judges in 2001, 16 last year. Their workload has
increased. In 2001, there were 515 funded positions, 621 now.
The Sheriff explained that two of the contracts are for food and medical costs at the Jail.
Those two are a little over $6 million. The contract for Courthouse security at the entrance
ways is approximately $350,000. Technical maintenance contracts for the office are just
under $400,000. The crime lab contract is just under $200,000 per year. The debt service
on the radio systems is $165,000. $235,000 per year is paid for the contract for out-of-
state prison transport. About 3% is discretionary. Since 2004-2005 they have not asked
for cars. They have used interest earnings. They have an aggressive forfeiture policy,
seizing vehicles used in drug activities and using them in civilian or undercover fleet or
selling them. The only new cars are painted green and white. Everyone else drives a
used car or an executive car.
The cost per resident of the County for law enforcement was given for counties with
populations in the 140,000 to 333,000 range. The lowest was Lake County at
$203/person. The highest was Collier County at $439/person. St. Lucie County’s Sheriff’s
office is at $245/person. Martin County is $411/person. Indian River County is at
$296/person. We are in the middle of the twelve counties queried. But we are lower than
neighboring counties.
Sheriff Mascara said the budget he has submitted and the one he is working on continues
to be reasonable and necessary to keep the community safe. This year, they have started
to make money on federal inmates in the jail. In the past, because of high jail population,
overtime was using the income. Last year the rate for federal inmates was renegotiated.
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Because some costs are down, March 1 they brought a check for $125,000 to the County.
They plan to continue that trend the remainder of this fiscal year.
The PowerPoint the Tax Collector passed out (see attached) was similar to what was
presented at the last Strategic Planning session. Mr. Davis thanked the Committee for
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March 19, 2010
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inviting them. The Constitutional offices are not departments of the County. Their budgets
are funded differently. The Tax Collector’s office maintains records for over 50 Municipal
Service Benefit Units (MSBU’s).
The difference in 100% collection and the amount collected is normally due to early
payment discounts. County tax certificates, taxes in litigation and bankruptcies are also
included.
The Tax Collector explained that his budget is funded 100% from what he calls user fees,
commissions and fees. They make 50 cents for selling fishing license and $3.00 on car
registration. 2% commission is made on tax collection. They always earn more revenue
than they spend. They call revenue over budget, excess revenue. The excess revenue
and unspent portion of their budget is sent back to the taxing agencies pro rata. Because
of the formula, the County gets about 80% of it. Last year it was about $5 million. The
total excess was about $6 million.
The reason for the ability to reduce staff is the internet. They encourage internet and mail-
in payments. They are able to have less people at the counter. They have high speed
processing and are able to handle mail very efficiently. Mr. Davis expects his budget to be
3% lower than last year.
Clerk Smith thanked the group for the opportunity. He shared four slides (see attached)
after announcing good news from the Clerk’s office.
Clerk Smith explained the way the Clerks of Court Operations Corporation works. All the
Clerks send money to the State, and it is doled back out. The Clerk’s Office is also fee
based. They receive $1.90 for every piece of paper in the recording division.
Clerk Information Technology is the only money that rolls to the next year. Any excess
funds would go back to the Board, except Court Operations money is sent back to the
State every month.
Because Clerk Smith did not want to come back to the County for additional money six
months after being elected, nine positions were cut from the Recording Division, and the
South County Recording Office was closed. They are trying to run the office as tight as
they can and fund in different ways so they do not have to come to the Board. It is his
policy that they do their best and run the operation tightly.
Mr. Hensley asked the Committee if there were questions.
Mr. Kurek asked Mr. Davis why the Board gets back more than other taxing authorities.
Mr. Davis explained the State commissions are given to the County for fishing licenses and
alarms. The School Board does not pay commission. The Cities only pay on special
assessments. Since the Board has 50-60 funds that pay commissions, they pay more so
they get more back.
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Mr. Knaggs asked for more explanation. Mr. Davis added that commissions total about
2%. They remit back half of that.
Mr. Knaggs asked if there is a way to budget that. Ms. Outlaw had told them that she can’t
budget for excess revenues so the shortfall does not include $5-6 million in the budgets for
the next few years. Mr. Davis does not know about the County’s budget. Ms. Outlaw
explained that we wait until the fiscal year is closed to include the excess fees in the fund
balance. Her question was if the amount of the commission could be reduced. That would
help on the front end. It is the same situation with the Sheriff’s office and the money for the
Federal Inmate Program. It would really help if that was reduced from the budget. Mr.
Davis answered that it can be done two ways. This County and some others budget 100%
of the tax revenue and then an expense of 2% of the collection fee. The excess is pretty
predictable.
Mr. Furst asked Ms. Outlaw for the amount in reserves. Ms. Outlaw answered $17.6
million in emergency reserves. They have none, because every year they have to go to
zero. He cannot predict what is going to happen. He told of his experiences with the
hurricanes. He does not have reserves so they need a cushion. He spent money on
things not in his budget that year, but at the end of the year, he still returned money to the
County. Mr. Davis said that is governmental accounting principles. Most balance sheets
have three parts: assets, liabilities and fund balance. Their offices have only assets and
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liabilities. They bankrupt themselves on September 30 each year. He has to borrow
money for the first two months. He pays it back when they receive the first tax distribution.
Mr. Kurek remembered that in the past, they would get an estimate in June or July and
include it in fund balance. Ms. Gouin said she could if Mr. Davis would give her a number.
But at that time, it would not make a difference. Ms. Gouin said the point being made is
that the Tax Collector is collecting 2%, which is more than his budget. She thinks Mr.
Knaggs is asking if there is any way of him estimating and telling the County what the
excess revenue will be at the end of the year. Mr. Davis said that is not a problem, but the
money would be for the following year. Mr. Knaggs agreed that it is what they are talking
about. Ms. Outlaw has a $38 million shortfall three years out from when he got involved in
the discussion. If the future track record is the same as the past 3-5 years, $15 million
could come back in the form of excess revenues and reduce the problem. If the excess
revenue number could be reliably predicted, it could be put in the budget and the shortfall
won’t be as significant as it appears. Ms. Gouin said the excess fees won’t be as
significant since the property values have declined. Mr. Knaggs thinks they could use a
number 70-80% of the estimate. Ms. Outlaw said to some extent the fund balance number
is built in. Mr. Davis believes they are counting it as beginning fund balance rather than
expected revenue. Ms. Outlaw explained they do estimate the amount one year out but
not two years. Mr. Knaggs added that since they were looking at three years, they were
missing two years of the fees. Ms. Outlaw clarified that he was right.
Mr. Lounds asked why the Cities and School Board do not pay commission. Mr. Davis
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March 19, 2010
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answered that it was State law. Mr. Davis added that everything they do is State law. He
gave the example that he makes $1 million per year registering vehicles and it costs $2
million. They want to transition driver’s license to the Tax Collectors. Some offices do
now, but he won’t unless he has to because it will cause unfunded mandates. He thinks he
can do it and do it better. And he is willing to do it but does not want to if it takes a million
dollars out of local property tax revenue. His association is in discussion with Tallahassee
about this issue. Mr. Lounds wished the Tax Collector would take over the driver’s license
program. Mr. Davis asked if he wants the excellent service, and if he is willing to pay for it.
Mr. Lounds appreciates that things are done right in the County’s offices. The personal
touch solves problems. You have to pay for that service. He would rather pay a fee than
taxes.
Clerk Smith said the State doubled some of their fees, but the money goes to them. Mr.
Lounds believes the fees are reasonable. Mr. Davis said they had to fight to raise fees.
Some folks came from Broward County to St. Lucie and Martin Counties because they
didn’t want to take a half a day off work to get a tag. That’s the trade off for paying smaller
fees.
Mr. Knaggs also believes in fees rather than increasing property taxes. Boat ramps were
used as an example. Mr. Davis thinks collecting an extra fee on boat registrations would
be more efficient. He thinks Tallahassee is stuck on no new fees and no new taxes. It
hurts locally. He believes the people who use the services should pay for them.
Mr. Mundt thinks all the Constitutionals do a great job with their budgets. He quoted Mr.
Furst saying they could do better and asked for specifics. Mr. Furst said the Constitutionals
met, and they had met with Ms. Outlaw. He thinks health insurance needs to be
addressed. If he takes the salary number for his office, without Social Security and
retirement, he is at $2.4 million. Health insurance is $1 million. It is ridiculous for a low-
end employee. The Sheriff has a better program. Mr. Furst cannot tackle the problem by
himself. He knows the County has changed carriers, which he hopes will help. He thinks
they all need to figure out how to do it better.
Mr. Furst thinks people miss the flip side. St. Lucie County has one of the highest
unemployment rates in the nation. Property values are some of the worst in the nation.
The foreclosure rate is second in the nation. Three years ago, property value for the
median house peaked at $264,000. He is now leading the State in the decline at
$101,000. Over 50% of homeowners with a mortgage in this County have negative equity.
They owe more than their house is worth.
Mr. Furst said Palm Beach County should have added 40,000+ jobs in 2009. They lost
29,000. St. Lucie County went from an expected gain of 6,000 jobs to a loss of 4,700. Our
constituents are in a serious bind. He thinks he and the Tax Collector see it more. Mr.
Furst thinks we are through the worst of it. But if you are unemployed or underwater in
your mortgage, you are still in the middle of it. We are going to have to work together and
get through the next couple years, and we will. The good news is the nice weather is why
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we will recover. It is a tough time for everybody and government has to share the pain.
Mr. Lounds said he agrees. He thinks if a person is not working, they will not register their
boat. He thinks the Constitutionals should be creative with fees rather than raise taxes.
Mr. Davis said the County cannot raise boat registration fees. They can amend alarm fees
and business registration tax.
Mr. Davis threw out the idea of a four-day work week, completely shutting down all offices
Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It could save. Ms. Outlaw responded that as part of the
Board’s May Strategic Planning session, they will have a number of options presented to
them. One will be a change in operating hours. It has not been decided if 32 or 37 hours.
She is still working the numbers.
Mr. Wells asked about the impact of the Community Redevelopment Agency (CRA) in Fort
Pierce. Ms. Outlaw said the City’s CRA has no impact on the County. She explained the
County collects the property tax revenue, and the portion that goes to the CRA is a pass-
through. The problem the city is running into is as the property values drop, it causes a
drop in revenue for the CRA. They were not able to fund projects they had planned and
still cover their debt service.
Ms. Ferrick asked if the Sheriff would have to cover part of the City of Fort Pierce since the
CRA would not have the money for police protection. Sheriff Mascara said they continue
to patrol both Cities by statute. 12% of the activity was in the City of Port St. Lucie last
year. The Sheriff added that his department will continue to work 24 hours a day, seven
days a week during the next fiscal year.
Mr. Hensley thanked the Constitutionals for coming.
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APPROVAL OF MINUTES – FEBRUARY 19 MEETING
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Mr. Mundt made a motion to approve the February 19 minutes. Mr. Knaggs seconded the
motion and it was unanimously approved.
OTHER ISSUES
Four pages were handed out per Ms. Ferrick’s request. They will be discussed at the next
meeting.
Mr. Knaggs asked about an update. Ms. Outlaw said they are finalizing the
implementation of the first phase of the realignment. It will be in three phases. The first
phase will be the first or second week of April. Twenty-four employees will be laid off.
Mr. Knaggs asked about the second phase. Ms. Outlaw explained that the Board
approved the three phases. The second phase is scheduled for July. Directors of the
newly consolidated departments are working with the impacted staff on consolidation and
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March 19, 2010
Page 8
implementation of the July phase. That will mostly impact the division manager level.
What will come back to the Committee and the Board will be an update of the new
divisional structure and a better figure of dollar savings.
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Mr. Hensley announced that the next meeting is April 16, and thanked the Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 8:52 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin
The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, April 16, 2010, at 7:30 a.m., in
Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration Annex.