HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 09-19-2002
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes
REGULAR MEETING
September 19, 2002
Commission Chambers, 3rd Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
7:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Mr. Grande, Mr. Merritt, Mr. Hearn, Mr. Trias, Mr. Jones, Mr. Matthes.
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Mr. McCurdy and Mr. Lounds (Both Absent - With Notice); Mr. Akins (Absent Without
Notice)
OTHERS PRESENT:
Mr. David Kelly, Planning Manager; Mr. Hank Flores, Planner III; Ms. Cyndi Snay, Planner III;
Ms. Heather Young, Asst. Co. Attorney; Ms. Dawn Gilmore, Administrative Secretary.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 1
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Matthes called to order the meeting of the St. Lucie County Planning and Zoning
Commission at 7:00 p.m.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Mr. Hearn stated that he has had conversations with various members of the public with regards
to several of the issues being heard this evening.
meeting. For those of you who have not been here before, The Planning and Zoning Commission
is an agency that makes recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners. The Staff will
present a brief summary of the project and then make their recommendation. After which time,
the Petitioner will be asked to come forward and state his/her case for the requested petition. At
any time the Commission may stop and ask questions of the Petitioner or Staff. After that process
is completed the Chairman will open the public hearing for anyone who wishes to speak for or
against the petition. The purpose of this hearing is to get input from the general public. If
anyone has something to say, please feel free to come forward and state it. After everyone has
gotten a chance to speak the Chairman will then close the public hearing. The Commission will
deliberate and then make a decision regarding their recommendation, one way or the other. The
decision that is made is typically read from a scripted set of statements that are given to the
Commission. It may sound rehearsed but it really is not. There is one motion for and one motion
against in the package, so that the Commission can make a motion either one way or the other so
it is very clear in the records.
Once again, I want to remind you that the Planning and Zoning Commission only acts in an
advisory capacity for the Board of County Commissioners. If you are not happy with the outcome
of this hearing you will have the opportunity to speak at the public hearing in front of the Board
of County Commissioners.
Ms. Young asked that Mr. Hearn disclose exactly which petitions he had discussions about when
they are presented.
No other announcements or comments.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 2
AGENDA ITEM 1: AUGUST 15, 2002 MEETING MINUTES:
Mr. Grande moved for approval. Motion seconded by Mr. Merritt.
Upon a vote, the motion passed unanimously (with a vote of 6-0).
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 3
AGENDA ITEM 2: AUGUST 29, 2002 SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES:
Mr. Grande stated that there were a couple of minor corrections he would like to address. He
advised that the l
Mr. Hearn stated that Mr. McCurdy was listed as both present and absent for the meeting and it
should be corrected to read that he was present, not absent.
deleted because it is a double negative. He also stated that the last paragraph, first line, on page
Mr. Grande moved for approval, as amended. Motion seconded by Mr. Hearn.
Upon a vote, the motion passed unanimously (with a vote of 6-0).
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 4
AGENDA ITEM 3: FILE NO. CU-02-007 FLORIDA CENTER FOR RECOVERY, INC.:
Chairman Matthes stated that he has had members of the public discuss this issue with him.
Mr. Hank Flores, presenting Staff comments, stated that Agenda Item # 3 was the application of
Florida Center for Recovery, Inc.
for a Conditional Use Permit to allow Social Services and
Health Services (specifically an inpatient drug and alcohol abuse rehabilitation center) in the I
(Institutional) Zoning District for 12.17 acres of property located at 3451 West Midway Road.
He also stated that at the August 15, 2002 hearing of this petition, the Planning and Zoning
Commission had discussion about the treatment facility and directed staff to outline conditions
that would be appropriate for the facility based on their discussions. The following are the
conditions being recommended by staff for the proposed conditional use:
1. The proposed facility shall be limited to Drug and Alcohol Abuse
Rehabilitation only.
2. The number of patients shall be limited to a maximum of 72.
3. A gate shall be constructed at the entrance of the existing wall in
order to provide security for the project.
4. There shall be no acceptance of Medicaid patients by the proposed
facility.
5. The conditional use granted through this petition is non-
transferable.
6. The conditional use permit shall be limited to the area north of the
canal, which runs diagonally through the property.
Mr. Flores continued that subsequent to the distribution of the staff report, it was determined that
Condition #4 should be removed from the listed conditions. Staff finds that this petition meets
the standards of review as set forth in the Land Development Code and is not in conflict with the
Comprehensive Plan. Staff recommends that you forward this petition to the Board of County
Commissioners with a recommendation of approval, subject to the 5 limiting conditions.
th
Chairman Matthes stated that this item was continued from the August 15 meeting and had a lot
of discussion. He also stated that they had asked the petitioner to give some more detailed
information with regards to the proposal. He continued that once the petitioner makes his more
detailed presentation they would reopen the public hearing for comments.
Mr. Ed Porch stated that he was the representative for the applicant Florida Center for Recovery
and lives in Jensen Beach. He advised that this property was being acquired as a subsidiary of
another facility, which is located in Long Island. He also stated that letters of recommendation
Association as well as other associations and institutions that have had experience with the
facility. He continued that during the events of 9- counselors were active, on a
volunteer basis, with the survivors and those on the scene at the time. He also stated that this
facility will be similar to the Betty Ford Clinic and would be high-end and would probably have
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 5
some high profile clientele from out of state. He advised that there were previously some
concerns about security and wanted to reiterate that these are voluntary patients who pay a lot of
money to be there. He stated that several aerial photos showing different angles of the facility
were provided to detail the size and location of the facility in relation to Midway Road. He
continued that the administration building sits back about 400 feet from Midway Road and he
also provided illustrations of the landscaping they were proposing to do. He also stated that there
would not be any signs on the property either. He advised that there is a large concrete wall that
surrounds the dormitories and that area would have a security gate constructed as requested in
condition number three of the staff report. He stated that the interior of the building has several
security doors that restrict ingress and egress to the outside. He also stated that there are only
forty-four in-residence beds available in St. Lucie County for recovery treatment. He continued
that no one would really know the facility is there because of the landscaping, no signs, and no
increased traffic. He advised that the property is currently owned by the U.S. Government and
was previously owned by a non-profit, charitable organization and was not on the tax roll. He
stated that the property is being sold for four million dollars. He also stated that the payroll for
six hundred thousand dollars a year. He continued that there would be no additional public
facilities or utilities impacted. He advised that they met with the Director of Nursing at IRCC and
is setting up a program for interns and scholarships. He also stated that this facility is being
number of patients is also limited.
Mr. Merritt disclosed that he has had a short discussion with Mr. Porch with regards to this
petition. He questioned how many beds were found in Martin and Indian River Counties. Mr.
Porch stated that there were a total of 139 beds for the entire Treasure Coast, north of West Palm
Beach, and only forty-four of those were in St. Lucie County, which are understaffed.
Chairman Matthes opened the Public Hearing.
Ms. Arlene Goodman stated that she supports this facility but suggested that they make sure that
all staff has an NCIC background check as well as an FDC check. She advised that many
members of her family were alcoholics and could have benefited from a facility like the one
proposed. She also stated that, at the time, her nineteen-year-old son took his own life by using
alcohol and drugs at the same time, there were no facilities in the area that could assist him with
his problems. She continued that St. Lucie County needs this type of facility and she is all for it.
She advised that for the welfare of the patients of the center, the rest of the property should also
be fenced in and may help to deter someone from coming onto the property to tempt a patient
with any substance. She continued that this is a disease and they need all the help they can get to
overcome their addiction. She stated that she was concerned about what would happen if
someone were caught trying to bring in or provide substances to the patients in the facility.
Mr. Nollie Robinson stated that he was the Director of Criminal Justice and Out-patient
Substance Abuse Programs for New Horizons of the Treasure Coast. He stated that he supported
the center and at a recent conference it was brought up that the only facilities, comparable to this
one, were in West Palm Beach and Daytona Beach. He also stated that he too was a recovering
alcoholic and went through a program similar to the one proposed and believes these facilities
work. He continued that these applicants have a great reputation in the Long Island area and he
would look forward to working with them here on the Treasure Coast.
Ms. Dottie Thompson stated that she was an employee of the State of Florida Children &
Families division and was responsible for licensing all of the substance abuse programs in District
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 6
15. She continued that she strongly supports this facility as there are not enough beds for those
seeking treatment and there are no other facilities like this in our district. She also stated that
roughly 50% of those within the district have to go out of district to get residential treatment. She
advised that the few small facilities that exist have extremely long waiting lists. She also stated
that she does not support fencing in the entire facility because this is a voluntary facility and
Mr. John Ferrick stated that he thinks this is a nice facility and is currently a waste of space that
needs to be used. He continued that this proposal is much better than some of the other options
that were proposed for the facility. He questioned if the Sheriff would be notified if there were
any issues involving patients, staff, or visitors that attend their facility.
Mr. Jack Fitzharris advised that if anyone were caught bringing in a substance to the treatment
facility, they would be reported. He continued that unfortunately it could happen but if they are
caught, the patient would be thrown out of the facility and the Sheriff would be notified.
Seeing no one else, Chairman Matthes closed the Public Hearing.
Mr. Hearn questioned if the gate that will be constructed would remain closed except during entry
and exit of the area. Mr. Fitzharris confirmed it would generally remain closed.
Mr. Grande stated after considering the testimony presented during the public hearing,
including Staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.07.03, St.
Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning
Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant
approval to the application of Florida Center for Recovery, Inc., for a Conditional Use
Permit to allow Social Services and Health Services in the I (Institutional) Zoning District,
because it will be a benefit to the public and a very positive use of that particular parcel.
Motion seconded by Mr. Jones.
Mr. Merritt stated that he has mixed emotions about this petition because of the price of the
services and the fact that most of the people in Fort Pierce could not afford to enter this facility.
He continued that he could not go along with this because he feels it does not benefit the residents
of Fort Pierce.
Upon a roll call vote the motion passed with a vote of 5-1 (Mr. Merritt voting against) and
forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 7
AGENDA ITEM 4: FILE NO. RZ-02-018 RODNEY HOPKINS:
Mr. Hank Flores, presenting Staff comments, stated that Agenda Item # 4 was the application of
Rodney Hopkins
for a Change in Zoning from the CG (Commercial, General) Zoning District to
the I (Institutional) Zoning District for 2.54 acres of property located at 4891 North U.S.
Highway No. 1. He advised that the applicant would like to establish a Congregate Care Facility
on the subject property. He continued that the surrounding zoning was CG (Commercial,
General) to the north, south, east, and west with I (Institutional) Zoning to the north. He also
stated that the general existing use surrounding the property was commercial.
Staff has reviewed this petition and determined that it conforms to the standards of review as set
forth in the Land Development Code and is not in conflict with the Comprehensive Plan. Staff is
recommending that you forward this petition to the Board of County Commissioners with a
recommendation of approval.
Mr. Rodney Hopkins stated that he was the petitioner and that the average life expectancy of the
elderly is seventy-six years old. He continued that he was very interested in providing the elderly
as close to a home atmosphere as possible. He also stated that there is a large need for this type
of facility in the County and he was currently renovating the building to make it look better than
it did previously.
Mr. Hearn stated that he contacted Staff to ask some questions about the plans. He also stated
that the applicant has done a fantastic job in starting to clean up one of the more serious eyesores
on north U.S. 1 and is proud to have him in the neighborhood. He continued that he fully
supports what the applicant wants to do but does have some concerns about his needing to have
the property rezoned before getting his license to operate the facility. He advised that he is also
concerned about some of the items that are allowed in the accessory and permitted uses under the
I (Institutional) Zoning. He continued that he would feel much more comfortable with the request
if he knew that he was already approved to operate this assisted living facility there. He also
stated that he was told that they planned to have an Institutional Residential Home, which would
be in excess of fourteen people. Mr. Hopkins confirmed that was correct and that he was
planning on having sixteen people in the home. Mr. Hearn stated that he felt a PNRD would be
the most appropriate request for this type of use, especially since he wants to have his office for
his plastering company on the same site. Mr. Hopkins stated that he was currently in the process
of submitting a new legal description, which would exclude his personal business office site.
Mr. Hearn advised that a PNRD would give the neighborhood the assurance of what is going to
be done on the property because a change in zoning opens up several other possibilities. He also
stated that he was concerned about the noise from the paint ballpark, which is located next door
to this proposed home. Mr. Hopkins stated that the park is only open during the day on Saturday
an inch of stucco on the outside and are well insulated with Egyptian plastering, which should
buffer a lot of the noise. Mr. Hearn questioned if the applicant would have a problem with
Chairman Matthes stated that Staff should explain what the procedural differences would be
before the applicant could attempt to comment on that request. Mr. Hopkins stated that he has all
the paperwork from Tallahassee for the application but cannot afford to pay for all of the large
cost renovations required to meet all of their requirements before knowing if he will be granted
approval from the County for the change in zoning.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 8
Mr. Hearn stated that he fully supports what the applicant wants to do with the facility because it
is an asset to the neighborhood but is concerned with changing the character of the zoning
because of what could be done under the I (Institutional) Zoning if he sells the property at a later
date. He also stated that he was concerned about the ability to have a drinking place as an
accessory use under the Institutional Zoning.
Mr. Kelly stated that there are two major differences between the I (Institutional) Zoning and a
PNRD request. He continued that one of the issues is timing because there a number of other
documents that must be prepared in addition to the application and more information is required.
He also stated the second issue that there is an increased fee for a PNRD. He advised that the site
Matthes questioned if he would be required to adhere to all of the other usual site plan
requirement issues. Mr. Kelly stated that most of the parking, landscape, and other usual
requirements would need to be met and would be reviewed through the building department at the
time the permits are required. He also stated that they do not have the ability to condition a
straight rezoning but through the PNRD request, they gain the ability to place conditions.
Mr. Hopkins stated there is already an existing site plan of the property but he has some small
items that might need to be changed with regards to paving, parking and other small things.
as an accessory use, since that is available under the current CG (Commercial, General) Zoning
too.
current CG Zoning without a conditional use permit and those items were his main concerns. He
also stated that he was going to support this petition and was happy to have Mr. Hopkins as a
neighbor. He continued that he would just like to see some additional safeguards that cannot be
instituted under a straight rezoning.
Mr. Merritt and Chairman Matthes both pointed out that drinking places are listed as an accessory
use under both zoning districts. Mr. Kelly confirmed that was correct.
ble
Chairman Matthes opened the Public Hearing.
Ms. Arlene Goodman stated that in her prior experiences with these types of facilities she found
nses and permits approved from the State without getting the
approval from the County for the change in zoning. She also stated that she understands their
concerns but was very much in favor of this proposed home for the elderly.
Ms. Sharon Stonesiper stated that she resides in Port St. Lucie and would like to say that Mr.
Hopkins has elderly parents who he cares very much for. She also stated that his plans were to
provide a home-like setting, with a common house where they could gather, for these people to
live out the rest of their days comfortably and have a quality of life. She asked that the
Commission to please support Mr. Hopkins and his project because he has the best intentions and
has invested a tremendous amount of time and energy on this project.
Seeing no one else, Chairman Matthes closed the Public Hearing.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 9
Mr. Hearn stated this project is in his neighborhood and he welcomes Mr. Hopkins to the area
because he thinks he will do a great job and that his only concern was that there might be a safer
way to do this, as far as the community was concerned.
Mr. Merritt stated that he was concerned about delaying this project because of the cost to the
owner and that he was prepared to vote on this tonight.
Mr. Hearn disclosed that this topic was one of the two topics that he has had discussions about.
Mr. Hearn stated after considering the testimony presented during the public hearing,
including Staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.06.03, St.
Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning
Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant
approval to the application of Rodney Hopkins for a Change in Zoning from the CG
(Commercial, General) Zoning District to the I (Institutional) Zoning District, because his
plans clearly are an asset to the neighborhood and to St. Lucie County.
Motion seconded by Mr. Grande, with discussion.
Mr. Grande stated that he would like to add that the petitioner has presented a very good case and
feel they should be in the position of being asked to send petitioners back for a second shot,
which increases their cos
in with requests like this, that the Staff gives them all of the available zoning, which would meet
their requirements and the benefits of the PUD or PNRD. He continued that the basic reason
there is because if a petitioner, at some point in time, sells the property, after a zoning has been
changed and he would feel more comfortable if it was sold with a PNRD zoning and an approved
site plan and not a generalized zoning district.
Upon a roll call vote the motion passed unanimously (with a vote of 6-0) and forwarded to
the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 10
AGENDA ITEM 5: FILE NO. CU-02-001 TIMOTHY & DEBRA ROSE CAR WASH:
Timothy and Debra Rose Car
Ms. Cyndi Snay stated that Agenda Item # 5 was the request of
Wash
for a Conditional Use Permit to allow the construction of a 2,542 square foot self-service
car wash facility to be known as Rose Car Wash within the CN (Commercial Neighborhood)
Zoning District. She continued that the subject property is located at 5321 Sunshine State
Parkway and is surrounded to the north by the Lakewood Park Subdivision and Lakewood Park
Methodist Church; to the south by The Bank of America Facility and vacant commercial land; to
the west by Lake James and single family residential units of Lakewood Park; and to the east is
Holiday Pines then vacant commercial land.
She also stated that the proposed facility would front onto the Turnpike Feeder Road. She
advised that the applicant indicated that a 15-foot wide landscape buffer and an 8-foot high
opaque masonry wall will be constructed around the subject site. She stated that the proposed car
wash facility was not expected to negatively impact any of the public facilities within the
surrounding area. She also stated that as part of the site plan submittal packages, the applicant
submitted a noise study for the proposed area. She continued that this noise study indicates that
the proposed car wash facility will meet the requirements of Chapter 1-13.8, the Noise Ordinance,
of the St. Lucie County Code of Ordinances.
Ms. Snay stated that the St. Lucie County Land Development Code sets forth the overall purpose
of a conditional use permit and the authority for granting of a conditional use permit. According
to Section 11.07.01(A) and (B) the purpose of a Conditional Use Permit is:
Section 11.07.01(A)
with the use characteristics of a zoning district, but which require individual
review of their location, design, intensity, configuration and public facility
impact in order to determine the appropriateness of the use on any particular site
in the district and their compatibility with adjacent uses. Conditional uses may
require the imposition of additional conditions to make the uses compatible in
Section 11.07.01(B)
standards, and limitations of this Code, grant conditional uses permits for those
uses enumerated in each of the zoning districts in Section 3.01.03 of this Code.
Ms. Snay advised that the subject petition was found to be consistent with the standards of review
of the Land Development Code and is not in conflict with the Goals, Objectives and Policies of
the Comprehensive Plan. She also stated that should the Commission choose to recommend
approval of the petition, Staff recommends that any such approval include the following special
conditions:
1. Prior to the issuance of a Vegetation Removal Permit, the developer of this
project shall clearly delineate and protect through appropriate identification
and barricades any existing native vegetation located outside the limits of
development for the proposed project that is to be preserved in place.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 11
2. Prior to the issuance of any building permits for the proposed structure or
buildings on this site, all exotic nuisance vegetation found on the site shall be
removed.
3. The proposed car wash fac
to 10:00 p.m.
4. The applicant shall be required to install an 8-foot high opaque wall constructed
of concrete and masonry materials or another similar material. This barrier
wall may not be constructed of wood or similar material. This wall must be
continuous and unbroken. The applicant will be required to install a minimum
of 60% of the required perimeter landscaping material on the outside of the wall
consistent with the requirements of Section 7.09.04(E) of the St. Lucie County
Land Development Code.
5. The approvals granted are contingent upon Rose Car Wash, its successors and
assigns, complying with the noise limitations set forth in Chapter 1-13.8 of the
St. Lucie County Code and Complied Laws, as may be amended from time to
time. In the even that rose Car Wash, its successors or assigns, shall be required
to correct the cited violation in the manner required by code. Failure to provide
corrective actions as directed by the County or their authorized agent shall
result in an order to suspend the operation of the car wash facility until the noise
violations are corrected to meet county codes.
Mr. Hearn stated that he noticed that Staff had not presented a recommendation one way or the
other on this petition. Mr. Kelly advised that they had done a technical review and their technical
finding was that this car wash could meet the county codes. He stated there needs to be a
consideration for compatibility and that if the Commission finds that it is compatible with the
neighborhood it could be approved. He continued that the technical aspects have been met but
there is a policy issue that they felt would be better left to the Commission to decide. Mr. Hearn
stated that when this was previously presented Staff had recommended denial and questioned
what has changed from the original request. Ms. Snay stated that there were some minor changes
that needed to be made to the site plan, which have since been modified and now meets all of the
technical requirements of the code.
Mr. Grande questioned if their decision-making allowed them to deny the application if they feel
it has a negative impact on the neighborhood or is inconsistent and incompatible with the
surrounding area. Ms. Young confirmed that incompatibility of the underlying use would be
sufficient grounds to recommend denial, if they chose to.
Mr. Bruce Barkette stated that he was the attorney representing the applicant Mr. Timothy Rose,
who was also present. He advised that Mr. Randy Mosby, the engineer for the project and Mr.
Bernard Kinney, the noise consultant were also present to answer any questions. He continued
that the project site is on Turnpike Feeder Road, just north of the Bank of America, Habits Bar
and Grill, and the Mobile station and is zoned CN (Commercial, Neighborhood). He stated that
this specific request was for a self-service car wash, which is permitted as a conditional use in the
CN Zoning District. He continued that when Mr. Grande confirmed that he could turn this down
because it was incompatible, there is law governing those issues. He stated that Florida Supreme
Court case Irvine vs. Duvall County Planning Commission states that they must have an
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 12
articulated reason that is supported by competent and substantial evidence. He also stated that the
statutory criteria for granting such exceptions, the burden is upon the opposing party to
demonstrate by competent, substantial evidence, presented at the hearing and made a part of the
record, that the special exception, or conditional use requested by the petitioner, did not meet the
as
emphasized that the mere objections of neighbors is not competent and substantial evidence. He
advised that if there is an articulated noise ordinance in the code and this application satisfies that
ng it down because of the noise, because the
standard has been met. He stated that unless the opposing parties come forward with another
noise consultant that shows that they have not met that standard. He continued that if the concern
was with traffic and they have a traffic study that shows they have met that standard, it cannot be
used as a reason to turn down the application and disregard the expert testimony. He also stated
that once they come forward with competent and substantial evidence, which demonstrates that
they have met the standards; they are entitled to be approved, as per the laws of the State of
Florida and St. Lucie County. He stated that the Staff report has done a good job of presenting
the standards that they were required to meet and they have been determined to be consistent in
all applicable provisions of the St. Lucie County Land Development Code. He continued to point
out each of the items listed in the Staff report, which showed they met the four listed items from
the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.07.03 of the Land Development Code. He also
stated that they have also met the standards required for development/site plan review as well.
He stated that they were not aware of the standards when they submitted their site plan
previously, which is why they were not met at that point in time. He continued that they felt they
were going to be a good neighbor and that the car wash meets all of the technical requirements.
Mr. Randy Mosby, Mosby and Associates, showed an aerial photograph to outline the project and
where it sits relative to the adjacent properties. He stated that the project site is bordered on the
south and southeast by the Turnpike Feeder Road, the north by Eden Road, and to the northwest
by Pandora Avenue. He continued that the Lakewood Park Methodist Church is located to the
northeast and is 450 feet away from their site location. He also stated that the wall they will be
constructing is located along the northeast, north, and a portion of the northwest perimeter, with
the only opening being on Turnpike Feeder Road and to the commercial site to the southwest. He
advised that they are 400 feet from the first home in Holiday Pines, which is to the south-
southeast. He then stated that it is 400 feet to the first house in Lakewood Park, which is to the
north-northwest of the project. He continued that the permits have been approved by DOT and
that all of the engineering design is contained within the perimeters of the eight-foot wall and
both sides of that wall will be landscaped.
Mr. Trias questioned if the applicant could address specifically how this proposal is consistent
with the code and that it should be approved as a conditional use. He advised that the description
of what is being proposed he already understands but he would like to see how that information
understand what Mr. Trias was looking for because the Staff report goes into how the project
specifically meets all of the requirements for the conditional use and site plan. He advised that
the purpose statement for the Commercial, Neighborhood (CN) Zoning District reads in part,
nvironment suitable for limited retail
trade and service activities covering a relatively small area and that is intended to serve the
limited retail trade and service activities. He also stated that the parcel size is 0.74 acres, which
would qualify as covering a relatively small area and that the car wash is intended to serve the
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 13
population living in the surrounding neighborhoods. He continued that having the eight-foot
articulated wall and landscaping on the outside of the wall, has mitigated the compatibility.
Mr. Bernard Kinney, 9767 Erica Court, Boca Raton stated that he was the president of Bernard
Kinney and Associates, which is an environmental noise consultant firm. He presented a copy of
the noise study report and his resume for review by the Commission. He stated that he has over
twelve years experience in environmental acoustics, is an appointed member of the Florida
Department of Transportation Noise Task team, and has done many environmental noise studies.
He continued that the St. Lucie County noise ordinance has two main elements that must be
satisfied. He stated the first element is the maximum permissible noise levels and the second is
that it is not permitted to go three decibels over the existing ambient noise. He advised that in
both cases, the proposed Tim Rose Car Wash facility met that criterion and that the wall that will
be constructed will be an even better buffer to any respective noise. He continued that his
analysis did not include having mitigation from a wall, so that would help the results of the study
even further. He advised that he went out to the proposed facility, over a three-day period, and
conducted a series of noise measurements, utilizing noise descriptors provided by the noise
ordinance, over a minimum fifteen-minute measurement period to find the current existing noise
levels. He stated that the Turnpike Feeder Road dominated most of the noise that was within the
area due to the heavy truck traffic. He continued that he then went to another car wash facility,
Cartoons Car Wash in Fort Pierce, because he anticipated that site would have a greater volume
of traffic since it is on U.S. 1, allowing for a worst case impact to present. He also stated that he
took measurements in front of the self-service bays, the automated car wash, and then backed up
ninety feet to account for the property line and took more measurements. He continued that with
these results they met the code and in many cases fell far below the maximum levels permitted by
the ordinance.
Mr. Merritt questioned how many loud boom boxes came through the car wash during the fifteen-
minute increments that were measured. Mr. Kinney stated there were not a whole lot, but there
were a few noted and at the ninety feet, they were still within the levels required within the
ordinance.
Mr. Hearn stated that the vacuums would be located at the back of the property, closest to the area
zoned for residential use. He advised that he lives on North U.S. 1 and there is a Shell station
across the highway from him that has vacuum cleaners available and he can hear the annoying
noises from them while they are running. He questioned if the study indicated if any vacuums
were running while they were taking measurements. Mr. Kinney stated that the vacuums were
running all day long while they were there at the Cartoons Car Wash. Mr. Hearn stated that his
concern is with the noises that will come from the car wash that would be annoying to the
residents surrounding the area. He advised that he does not agree with Staff that this project
different items that should be considered because they all contribute to the overall ambient but
things that may be annoying still may fall within the required levels of the noise ordinance. He
continued that the Turnpike Feeder Road contributes highly to the ambient noise out there and the
data shows that in some cases it is far greater than the noise levels registered from the Cartoons
Car Wash and U.S. 1 levels. He continued that he thinks that the Turnpike Feeder Road would
dominate a large portion of the ambient background noise, even when the car wash facility is in
place.
Mr. Hearn stated that adding more noise to the noise that already exists there would not be a good
thing. Mr. Kinney advised that it is a logarithmic function and is on a base ten scale, so adding
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 14
the car wash would not really increase the decibels over what is already existing from the heavy
trucks that currently travel that road. He continued that in some cases the levels at the Cartoons
Car Wash were lower than the levels that currently exist along the Turnpike Feeder Road.
Chairman Matthes opened the Public Hearing.
Mr. Bill Adams stated he resides in Holiday Pines and that the Board of County Commissioners
denied this petition unanimously previously. He continued that one of the past issues they had
was with noise and it is still an issue now. He also stated that there is a Church right next door
and a residential district across from, beside, and in back of the proposed site. He advised that he
believes this will affect their property values and will also
meditation garden. He stated that he understands there is already noise from the highway, but
that adding this facility will only contribute to that noise. He questioned why the applicant is
insistent on putting this facility in that location with a Church and residential areas so close by
when there is property for sale south of this area that is more commercial. He also stated that
there is already a car wash existing down the street and a truck wash facility a little further down
the Feeder Road. He continued that he feels that the northern end of the county gets stuck with
all of these controversial projects. He advised that he feels there are some things that are more
important than the legality of the project. He also stated that they are concerned about the lights
shining into the Holiday Pines area and how this project will affect the new development that is
coming into the area. He continued that they are also concerned about the facility being
unattended and could become a gathering place, which would incur more police issues.
Mr. Grande questioned if this application is the same proposal that was previously denied by the
Board of County Commissioners. Ms. Snay confirmed that it was the same proposal that the
Planning and Zoning Commission had recommended approval of previously and the Board of
County Commissioners had recommended denial of. She stated that the applicant chose to
resubmit their request and there is no time restriction in the code with regards to conditional use
requests. Mr. Kelly advised that there were some minor changes to the original site plan, but it
essentially was the same.
Mr. Adams stated that he collected one hundred and fifty signatures from Holiday Pines residents
that were against this petition. He presented a copy of the signatures to the secretary for the
record.
Ms. Adelaide Brown stated that she resides in Spanish Lakes Country Club and is a member of
the Lakewood Park Methodist Church. She continued that she has lived in Spanish Lakes for
twenty years and that when they bought the property they were happy to find the Church. She
also stated that they have the memorial gardens, which are in front of the church and is meant for
prayer and meditation and needs to remain a quite atmosphere. She advised that she does not
want to see a car wash next to the church.
Mr. Sam Brown stated he was the spouse of Ms. Adelaide Brown and wanted to go over the Staff
report. He questioned if there would be public facilities at the car wash since the Staff report
states it would not create any significant additional demands. Ms. Snay stated that all facilities
would be found on the site until such time that water and sewer is brought forth and available.
Mr. Brown asked what would happen if their on-site septic tank were to overflow. Chairman
Matthes stated that he believed they would handle it the same way anyone with a standard septic
system would by meeting the Health Department codes. Mr. Brown stated that in the third
paragraph, under number 1, on page 5, it shows that incompatible visual effects may be expected
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 15
on the residential properties located to the north-northeast of the facility. He questioned why this
what the economic impacts on the area
Chairman Matthes stated that he could not find a sign plan and wanted to know what the
maximum height restriction would be for the sign. Mr. Kelly stated that the sign would be a
maximum of ten feet to the top of the sign. Chairman Matthes confirmed that the sign would be
allowed to be two feet higher than the top of the eight-foot wall as per code.
Ms. Lil Collier advised that she lives at 7171 Brookline Avenue in Lakewood Park and is also an
active member of the Church. She stated that she has had experiences with noise and how loud it
can be when you are in proximity of it. She explained that when she was in a pizza parlor, in a
strip mall, someone had continuous loud music playing in their car and she could hear the
thumping and vibrations from the vehicle in the parlor. She advised that their Church is located
along a road that is a feeder road, but the noise passes quickly as the cars and trucks go by. She
questioned the 3.5553 acres that is shown on the property owners listing for Lakewood Park
located within 500 feet of the subject parcel. Ms. Collier stated that the Church sits on five acres
and wondered why the difference. Chairman Matthes pointed out that the second column does
of acres that falls within the 500 feet. She stated that she just wanted to make the point that most
the memorial gardens. She also stated that she uses the garden and memorializes her loved ones
there and is concerned about the noise for extended periods of time affecting that area. She
submitted a copy to the secretary for the record of 385 signatures that were also against the
proposed car wash facility.
Chairman Matthes stated that the reason that it shows the area within the five hundred feet on the
with the noise study and where they tested the levels. Ms. Collier stated that she understands that
and simply wanted to point out the distance measurement. She also stated that she did not believe
the Church ever received the notification letter and response form with regards to this petition.
Ms. Snay advised that they were sent out the letter and maps originally back in August and that
there would be additional letters, maps and conditional use response forms sent to everyone on
that list prior to the Board of County Commissioners meeting. She also stated that since the
August meeting was continued to a date certain, no additional letters were sent. She continued
that any correspondence that has been received, at any time, in the Planning Department, by
anyone with regards to this petition it would be included in the packets to the Board of County
Commissioners for their review.
Mr. Hearn questioned if their packets included any correspondence that was received from the
public. Mr. Kelly stated that the response forms that are sent out prior to the County Commission
meeting, but after the Planning and Zoning meeting, so the copies of the response forms would
not be included in their packets. He also stated that the code states that if written protest (on the
Conditional Response Forms) by owners of fifty (50) percent or more of the area within five
hundred (500) feet of the property affected if received the conditional use permit can not be
approved except by the favorable vote of four-fifths (4/5) of all of the Board of County
Commissioners. He advised that any written correspondence that is received prior to their
packets being mailed is included. He also stated that usually if it is received after their packets
are mailed, but in enough time prior to the actual meeting, copies are made and given to the
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 16
Planning and Zoning Commission the night of the meeting. Mr. Hearn questioned if that is done
on a per acre basis or just strictly on property owners. Mr. Kelly advised it is done on a per acre
basis.
Ms. Dorothy Davis stated that she was a resident of Spanish Lakes Country Club Village and has
a petition signed by 107 of their residents against this petition. She submitted the petitions to the
secretary for the record. She also questioned what dates the noise study was done. Chairman
Matthes stated the dates of the study were 7/20/02 through 7/23/02. Ms. Davis stated that they
wash when there is already one just down the road.
Ms. Lori Lepere stated that she resides at 6500 Eden Road and that her property is within five
hundred feet and directly behind the proposed facility. She advised that she has a ten-year-old
daughter who rides her bicycle on their street, which is behind this site and is also worried about
the lights shining into their home in the evening. She also stated that she is worried about it being
open until 10:00 at night and just wanted to make sure they were aware that she was not for this
car wash.
Ms. Judy Kloid stated that her husband is the pastor of Lakewood Park Methodist Church and
they reside directly behind the Church. She continued that they are in the process of designing a
small prayer chapel that will face the memorial gardens and is afraid that will no longer be a
quiet, serene place, if the car wash is approved. She also stated that they have a country type
neighborhood that they would like to keep that way.
Mr. Cliff Norris stated that he was the managing partner of a three-partner ownership of property
that was within 500 feet of the proposed facility on the southwest side and his office was located
at 4731 A-1-A in Vero Beach. He questioned if the wall is completely u-shaped and the only
opening from Turnpike Feeder Road. Mr. Randy Mosby advised that the wall was open to the
commercial side to the southwest and also on Feeder Road. He continued that the all areas that
border residential areas and the church are entirely closed by the wall. Mr. Norris confirmed that
the wall would not be on the side of the property that faces their property. Mr. Mosby stated that
there would not be any wall between the two pieces of commercial land. Mr. Norris questioned if
the wall would be exposed block or stucco. Mr. Mosby explained it would be an articulated
stucco wall with landscaping on both sides. Mr. Norris asked if the landscaping would be
major objections except that they would ask that the wall be completely constructed with the only
opening on the Turnpike Feeder Road. He also stated that they would like to see the irrigation
mandated to be continually irrigated so that it is fresh and new and has an attractive appearance.
Mr. Bob Bangert stated that he has lived in Holiday Pines in St. Lucie County since 1979 and
there have been several eyesores over the years along the roads that lead to his home. He
explained that he is concerned about what would happen to this property if they go out of
business. He also stated that it would be another ugly eyesore if that happened and should be
considered.
Mr. Gordon Case stated he lives at 5411 Eagle Drive in Holiday Pines and that the wall they have
all been discussing does not go between the proposed property and Holiday Pines. He also stated
that he does believe that the wall will help deflect some of the noise from the car wash but is
really concerned with the hours of operation. He continued that having the car wash open until
10:30 p.m. would attract a lot of te
to go. He stated that he was also concerned because there will not be any staff on-site to police
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 17
this type of activity and will be bad news for the neighborhood. He also stated that he feels
having a car wash next to a church is not appropriate.
Ms. Patricia Bodey stated she lives at 7101 Cabana Lane in Lakewood Park and is very against
this car wash. She advised that there are much better locations along Kings Highway from Indrio
Road to Orange Avenue and further south.
Mr. John Ferrick advised that he is not a resident within the area but understands the neighbors
concerns about the level of noise that may be generated from the car wash and its customers. He
stated that he lives a ¼ mile from any paved road and on many nights he can hear the thumping
and vibrating from car radios. He continued that if he were a member of this church and had to
deal with hearing those noises from the car wash, he too would be upset. He stated that he feels
that this is a poor location since it is next to a church.
Seeing no one else, Chairman Matthes closed the Public Hearing.
Mr. Randy Mosby stated that when this site plan was presented previously it was incomplete
because they did not have a noise study or all the details needed and after it was denied they
reviewed all of the information with Staff. He continued that they redesigned and readdressed all
of the concerns prior to resubmittal to fulfill all of the issues and ordinances of St. Lucie County.
He explained that they were before them before and were denied by the County Commission but
worked hard with Staff to address all of the concerns and feel that the new information they
submitted with the site plan and noise study should have addressed all of those previous concerns.
Mr. Trias questioned if the only physical change to the site plan from the previous request was
making the wall 8-feet tall. Mr. Mosby stated that the major change was the landscaping and the
wall for buffering around this facility. Ms. Snay explained that the primary changes from the
original site plan were modifications to the landscaping, retaining walls around the preserve
areas, sighting the light fixtures to ensure the on-site saturation, with no off-site saturation
allowed, bringing the wall up to eight feet and landscaping going on both sides of the wall. She
continued that the building layout and footprint did not change.
Mr. Bruce Barkette stated that he wanted to point out that most of the opposing testimony is
based on fears of the unknown and a fear of boom boxes.
Mr. Bernard Kinney stated that the questions regarding boom boxes were good but that reflection
is different depending on the type, construction, and age of the buildings. He continued that if the
Church is a concrete block constructed facility, he finds it hard to believe that with a distance of
over 400 feet that they would be able to hear the boom boxes in an adverse manner. He stated
that he did not find a lot of adverse noise impacts from boom boxes at the Cartoons Car Wash.
He continued that he did not feel that the wall would cause a deflection of the sound back across
the highway. Chairman Matthes questioned if the wall was considered when the noise study was
conducted on the site. Mr. Kinney stated that he was not aware of the wall at the time the study
was done and that a wall being there would only help the results by buffering and that will make
the noise levels less. He also stated that it would be virtually impossible to cause any deflective
problems with noise across the Turnpike Feeder Road.
Mr. Grande questioned if the level of noise generated by this facility would be acceptable to the
residences behind it, even before considering the wall that is proposed. Mr. Kinney confirmed
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 18
that was correct. Mr. Grande stated that he felt Mr. Kinney was saying since there is already a lot
of noise in the area because of the Turnpike Feeder Road, it was okay to add a whole bunch more
noise. Mr. Kinney stated that is not what he was saying. He explained that the noise levels that
would be generated by the car wash are lower than the noise levels already experienced along the
Turnpike Feeder Road. He continued that the louder noise would almost drown out the noise
from the lower levels. Mr. Grande stated that he felt by adding that noise to the already existing
noise, it would be louder. Mr. Kinney stated that is not the case.
Chairman Matthes stated that Mr. Case had questioned if the facility would me manned or
unmanned and that the facility would not be attended.
Mr. Jones questioned what time of day the noise study was conducted. Mr. Kinney stated that
they conducted tests throughout the day, usually from midday to late afternoon. Mr. Jones
questioned if there were any readings done at night. Mr. Kinney stated that some of their latest
readings were at around 4:30 or 5:00 p.m. He also stated that the noise ordinance considers 7:00
a.m. through 10:00 p.m. daytime and this study was done to meet the daytime ordinance
requirements. Mr. Jones questioned if the applicant would have to be before them if they had
chosen to build a pizza parlor on the site. Ms. Snay stated they would not have seen this
application if that were the case because that is a permitted use within the CN (Commercial,
Neighborhood) Zoning District.
Mr. Merritt stated that after considering the testimony presented during the Public
Hearing, including Staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section
11.07.03, St. Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and
Zoning Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners
deny the application of Timothy Rose, for a Conditional Use Permit to allow the
construction of a 2,542 square foot self-service car wash facility in the CN (Commercial,
Neighborhood) Zoning District because it has a direct adverse impact on the surrounding
neighborhood.
Motion seconded by Mr. Hearn.
Upon a roll call vote the motion was passed with a vote of 5-1 (Mr. Jones voting against)
and forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of denial.
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 19
OTHER BUSINESS/DISCUSSION:
Next scheduled meeting will be October 17, 2002.
ADJOURNMENT
Meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted: Approved by:
_____________________________ _______________________________
Dawn Gilmore, Secretary Stefan Matthes, Chairman
P & Z Meeting
September 19, 2002
Page 20