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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 02-17-2005 St. Lucie County Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting Minutes REGULAR MEETING February 17, 2005 rd Commission Chambers, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex 6:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Charles Grande, Chairman, Bill Hearn, Vice-Chairman, Pamela Hammer, Kathryn Hensley, John Knapp, Ed Lounds, Stephanie Morgan, and Carson McCurdy. MEMBERS ABSENT: Russell Akins and Ramon Trias with notice. OTHERS PRESENT: Mr. Ed Cox, Growth Management Director; Mr. Randy Stevenson, Assistant Growth Management Director; Mr. David Kelly, Planning Manager; Ms. Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney; Mr. Hank Flores, Planner III; Ms. Linda Pendarvis, Planner II, and Ms. Faith Simpson, Administrative Secretary. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 1 CALL TO ORDER Chairman Grande called to order the meeting of the St. Lucie County Planning and Zoning Commission at 6:05 p.m. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ROLL CALL ANNOUNCEMENTS Chairman Grande meeting. The Planning and Zoning Commission is an agency that makes recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners on land use matters. These recommendations are made after consideration of staff recommendation and information gathered at a public hearing, such as those we will hold tonight. The meeting will progress in the following manner: The Chairman will call each item. Staff will make a brief presentation on the facts of the request. The petitioner will explain his or her request to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Members of the public will be allowed to present information regarding the request. The public portion of the meeting will be closed and the Planning and Zoning Commission will discuss the request. Further public comment will not be accepted unless the Planning and Zoning Commission has specific questions. The Planning and Zoning Commission will vote on its recommendation after its discussion. For legal reasons, the motion may be chosen and read from a script provided by staff. Motions both for and against are provided to the Planning and Zoning Commission members. The recommendation is then forwarded to the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners for their consideration and vote, usually within the next month. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 2 Once again the Planning and Zoning Commission acts only in an advisory capacity for the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners. If you are not happy with the outcome of this hearing you will have the opportunity to speak at the public hearing in front of the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 3 AGENDA ITEM 1: SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES JANUARY 6, 2005 th Ms. Hammer had a correction Page 9, 6 paragraph down that started Ms. Hammer requested to notified; and the very last line, upon a roll call vote the motion to approve passed unanimously, not to continue. Chair Grande had a correction on Page 6, it appeared a motion made and seconded by Mr. Grande, was a mistake. He could not have made both the motion and second. Ms. Hammer responded that she thought that Mr. Hearn made the motion. Mr. Lounds made a motion to accept the minutes as amended. Ms. Hammer seconded the motion. All were in favor. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 4 AGENDA ITEM 2: MEETING MINUTES JANUARY 20, 2005 Mr. Lounds made the motion to accept the minutes. Mr. Hearn seconded the motion. All were in favor. Mr. Lounds asked counsel if there was a possibility that they could call the office with the errors found in the minutes and ask that the corrections be made and the changes noted on a sheet before it got to the meeting, so that they would approve of the minutes changed as noted on the review. Chair Grande agreed as it would make the meeting go smoother and the changes would already be in writing. Ms. Young a problem with that; perhaps they could have a correction ratter sheet at each mem place so that you could make a motion to approve it with those changes noted. Ms. Hammer suggested attaching a correction sheet on the back of the minutes where they could write the corrections on it as they read them and bring it in with them. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 5 AGENDA ITEM 3: ADONEL CONCRETE CU-04-008 Mr. Flores stated that the agenda item was Adonel Concrete for a Conditional Use Permit to allow for the operation of a concrete batch plant in the industrial, heavy zoning district. It was 9.2 acres of property which was located at the eastern terminus of Environment Drive. The applicant had applied for the requested Conditional Use in order to operate a batch plant from the subject property. Concrete manufacturing was allowed as a Conditional Use in the Industrial, Heavy Zoning District subject to the approval of the Board of County Commissioners. Staff found that the petition met the standards of review as set forth in the Land Development Code and was not in conflict with the Comprehensive Plan. Staff recommended that the petitionbe forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval. Vice-Chair Hearn asked if on the location map of the site plan it talked about White City Road, was that an error, or was there a White City Road. Mr. Flores responded that Midway Road was also known as White City Road. Chairman Grande opened the public portion of the hearing. Ramon Costello, with C3TS Engineers and Louis Garcia, President of Adonel Concrete were present on behalf of the petitioner. Mr. Costello stated that was occurring there. The applicant was ready to move forward and begin construction should the County Commission approve. It was a concrete manufacturing batching facility that would have rail access of the FEC Railroad, serving St. Lucie County, Martin County, Vero Beach, and Indian River County. Mr. Lounds stated that he had a problem with them using wild coffee as a shrub, backdrop the oak trees. The wild coffee and ficus would not survive the cold temperatures in this area compared to Miami. He suggested that they contact Carol Roberts or Anita Neil with the County to get names of shrubs that would be hardier for here than the wild coffee. Mr. Costello stated that they would discuss it with staff and would see if there was a better shrub that they would recommend. They had no problem changing it. Mr. Lounds asked what they were going to do at this location for dust control. Mr. Costello responded that the batch plants themselves, the silos that held the cement which was really the source of most of the dust had automatic dust collectors in them, like giant vacuum cleaners. As the cement was going into the batcher, it had like a shroud over it and it sucked any dust that would blow off. Also there was a series of sprinklers throughout the site to water down the piles of aggregate to keep down the dust and the site itself was watered down periodically. Mr. Lounds asked if the water that was used in the aggregate pit was contained on site, also if their outfall went into the canal that was along the Turnpike. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 6 Mr. Costello responded yes, they had already obtained the Florida Department of Environmental Protection permit for industrial activities related to batch plants; this required that they captured all the d a higher pH, it was contained within a concrete pool. It had the rainfall containment of the 25 year storm. Their outfall would go to the North St. Lucie Water Control District Canal. Ms. Morgan enquired about the amount of trucks for traffic coming out which would come out from Jenkins Road onto Midway. Mr. Costello said that it would vary, about 20-30 trucks each one typically went out for maybe three or four loads a day, at the most, on a busy day. Ms. Morgan said she was concerned as that was a very critical intersection, there was no light, and there had been several accidents. Mr. Knapp questioned if there was no egress or ingress to Glades Cut Off Road over the railroad tracks, was that a right-of-way. Mr. Costello stated that they had along the whole side of the property between, there was a railroad completely along there, it separated them from Glades Cut Off Road, they would have to go across the FEC Railroad, and the railroad would be reluctant to grant access across their right- of-way. Ms. Hammer asked if the County already protected themselves by not allowing trees to be planted in the utility easements, or had the right type of vegetation be put in the easements. Mr. Costello stated that Florida Power & Light after Hurricane Andrew in Miami, had requirements that had to do with the height of the tree, and how far it was from the power lines. It had to do specifically with overhead power lines; they wanted trees no taller than 15 feet at mature height, under power lines. If the tree was a little bigger, then it had to be shifted over away from the power line, a minimum of 30 feet; and a bigger tree even further. Mr. Lounds asked who would be their customer base and competitors. Mr. Costello responded primarily home builders, the County itself building a road, sidewalk, curb and gutter. Tarmac, Rinker, etc. would be their competitors. Ms. Hammer stated that the weight of the trucks on Midway Road caused more damage than a regular vehicle passing by and asked staff if they had anything in their documents that created for some type of participation fee to help with the maintenance of the roads. Mr. Flores responded that he was not aware of any. Mr. Knapp asked if they had considered putting in a turning lane at Jenkins Road and Midway Road in order to merge into the traffic on Midway Road. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 7 Mr. Costello responded that was something that the owner of the road would request as an improvement and to his knowledge nobody had. Seeing no one, Chairman Grande closed the public portion of the hearing. Mr. Lounds made a recommendation that they change the hedge material to an appropriate hedge material approved by the St. Lucie County agent. Ms. Morgan wanted to find out if there was anyway they could access from Glades Cutoff. Mr. Knapp stated that he wanted something added to the motion that would help to improve the Jenkins Road intersection with Midway Road in order alleviate that from becoming a very accident prone intersection with all the trucks coming in and out of there. Ms. Young responded that there was currently underway a PD&E study on that corridor. There was a stakeholders committee meeting in a week or so and the engineers were reviewing it. She felt that they would look at that intersection given the industrial activity there, and they would also look at the entire Jenkins Road and that issue would be addressed as part of their process. Chair Grande requested that she passed on the information regarding the kind of traffic that would be there along to whomever was doing the study. Ms. Young responded that she would convey that information to Scott Herring who was the staff liaison for that project. Mr. McCurdy stated after considering the testimony presented during the public meeting including staff comments, the standards of review set forth in Section 11.07.03 St. Lucie County Land Development Code I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant approval to the application of Adonel Concrete for Conditional Use Permit to allow for the operation of a concrete batch plant facility in the IH (Industrial, Heavy) Zoning including the amendment for proper foliage, because it does fit in with the area quite well. It would be a good use for that particular piece of land. Seconded by Vice-Chair Hearn with the comment that he too was concerned about the truck traffic on Midway Road and hoped that the applicant would be cooperative when the time came to make improvements on that road, financially. Upon a roll call vote the motion passed unanimously. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 8 AGENDA ITEM 4: FLORIDA RESOURCES, LLC CU-04-009 Mr. Hank Flores ments that this was the application of Florida Resources for a Conditional Use Permit to allow mining and quarrying of non-metallic materials in the AG-1 (Agricultural 1 du/acre) Zoning District on 241 acres of property located generally on the south side of Indrio Road approximately half-mile west of Interstate 95. Access to the site is provided through an easement from Indrio Road. The applicant has applied for the requested conditional use in order to allow mining and quarrying of non-metallic materials. Such activities are allowed as a conditional use in the AG-1 Zoning Districts subject to the approval of the Board of County Commissioners. Staff finds that this petition meets the standards of review as set forth in Land Development Code, is not in conflict with the comprehensive plan. Staff is recommending that you forward this petition to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval subject to pre-limiting conditions. Ms. Hammer pointed out that the received date stamped on the map that she had received, was February 28, 2005, and requested that it be corrected. Mr. Kelly said it should be February 8 and would have it corrected. Chairman Grande opened the public portion of the hearing. Chryl Ellinor, with LPG Environmental and Permitting Services, Agent for the applicant along with Nick Stewart, Owner/Operator were present. The information provided by staff was correct. They had no problems or concerns with regard to the conditions as requested by staff. Mr. Lounds asked if they had found any burrowing owls on this property and were they still there. Ms. Ellinor responded yes, but at the present moment and time, it did not appear to be the case. Their nesting season began in February and runs through July, so they would monitor the area, the way they were previously observed, through that period and time; and then again beginning the subsequent year. Mr. Knapp asked how long they planned on operating the mine and if they had a long term plan for the use of the l Mr. Stewart responded approximately 10 years, it was a continuance of their operations that they already had. They were going to put esthetic lakes on it and wait and see what happenedin growth in St. Lucie County. Vice-Chair Hearn questioned what percent of their business was confined to St. Lucie County, as opposed to Martin County or Indian River County. Mr. Stewart Martin County, and did probably 50-40% of their business in Indian River County. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 9 Vice-Chair Hearn asked if they saw the possibility down the road that the mining industry would be willing to voluntarily provide a fee of some sort to the County because of the damage that the trucks did to the roads, per truckload. Not you would pay, but the customer would pay. The that operation going on. Mr. Stewart know if that would be done in impact fees. Seeing no one else, Chairman Grande closed the public portion of the hearing. Chair Grande stated that from the aerial, it appeared there was no conflict with contiguous residential properties to mine operation. Mr. Lounds asked staff what was the basis behind the Mexican Buzzard and the Burrowing Owl being mentioned in the report where they had three conditions that were focused on those two birds. Mr. Flores responded that at one time there was a burrowing owl and Environmental Resources Division (ERD) had concerns over the possibility of them being on site. Mr. Knapp - After considering the testimony presented during the public hearing, including staff comments and standards of review set forth in Section 11.06.03 of St. Lucie County Land Development Code I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant approval to the application of the Florida Resources, LLC for Conditional Use Permit to allow for the mining and quarrying of non-metallic materials in the AG-1 (Agricultural 1 du/acre) Zoning District because it makes sense to continue the mining operation that is existing out there Motion seconded by Ms. Hammer. Chair Grande asked Mr. Knapp if the motion included the conditions that had been recommended by the staff. Mr. Knapp responded that it did. Upon a roll call vote the motion passed unanimously to approve. Mr. Hearn stated he had a concern of the truck traffic on Indrio Road. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 10 AGENDA ITEM 5: MO-JO ENTERTAINMENT CU-05-001 Mr. Flores stated that this item is the application of Mo-Jo Entertainment for a Conditional Use Permit to allow the retail sale of distilled and un-distilled alcohol otherwise known as a liquor store in the Commercial, General (CG) Zoning District for property located at 6682A South US Highway No. 1 in the St. Lucie Square Plaza. The applicant has applied for the requested conditional use in order to operate a liquor store from the subject property. Liquor stores are allowed as a conditional use in the CG Zoning District subject to the approval of the Board of County Commissioners. Staff finds that the petition meets the standards of review as set forth in the Land Development Code and is not in conflict with the Comprehensive Plan. Staff is recommending that you forward this petition to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval. Chair Grande stated that there were two applications from Mo-Jo, one for conditional use for a liquor store and the second for a conditional use for a night club and asked legal counsel if it made sense to present them as a combined application. Ms. Young responded as long as there were two public hearings and two votes as separate petitions. Ms. Hammer said she preferred to have two separate hearings, because of the concerns she had on the night club. She asked staff what was the distance from the liquor store to Savanna Ridge Elementary School. Mr. Flores said he was not sure, but generally the distance for liquor stores, from schools and churches going from the front door out to the nearest right-of-way and then made your way down the center line of the road, as long as it wa Mr. Lounds asked if there were any another drinking establishments within a mile. Mr. Flores responded there were at least five. John Ciulla, Mo-Jo Entertainment, General Manager, stated that the information the staff has presented is accurate. Vice-Chair Hearn asked who was the owner of this corporation and where was he located. Mr. Ciulla stated that the owner of the corporation shareholder was Warren Mosler and that he lived in St. Croix. Chairman Grande opened the public portion of the hearing. Seeing no one else, Chairman Grande closed the public portion of the hearing. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 11 Chair Grande asked staff what separated the property from Kitterman Woods, was it a road right- of-way or a canal. He also asked it there was an existing buffer or wall since this was a commercial plaza with a residential area behind it. Mr. Flores said it could be a canal right-of-waybuffer or wall as this predated that requirement. Mr. Knapp asked what the hours of operation would be. Mr. Ciulla responded not going clock at night with the liquor store. Mr. McCurdy said that the sale of alcohol was regulated heavily by the State. Mr. Lounds stated that after considering the testimony presented during the Public Hearing, including staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.07.03, St. Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant approval to the application of Mo-Jo Entertainment, Inc. for Conditional Use Permit to allow the retail sale of distilled and un-distilled alcohol in the CG (Commercial, General) Zoning District and I think it fits in with the other establishments within the area and would be a good business. Motion seconded by Ms. Morgan. Upon a roll call vote the motion passed unanimously to approve. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 12 AGENDA ITEM 6: MO-JO ENTERTAINMENT CU-05-002 Mr. Flores stated that this item is the application of Mo-Jo Entertainment for a Conditional Use Permit to allow the operation of a drinking place, free-standing, in this case a night club in the Commercial, General (CG) Zoning District for property located at 6682B South US Highway No. 1 in the St. Lucie Square Plaza. Night clubs are listed under standard industrial classification 58(13), drinking Place, free-standing and allowed as conditional uses in the CG Zoning Districts subject to the approval of the Board of County Commissioners. Staff finds that the petition meets the standards of review as set forth in the Land Development Code and is not in conflict with the Comprehensive Plan. Staff is recommending that you forward this petition to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval. Vice-Chair Hearn asked staff what was the closing time for other drinking establishments in the county. Mr. Flores responded 2 a.m. was the latest for alcohol sales and that was State regulated. Police Officer stated that the hours of operation were regulated by County Ordinance 1-3-6. Vice-Chair Hearn stated that his concern was that there were going to be houses to the east of the establishment, and there was already a major problem with a business out on Orange Avenue that kept the residents awake all night long. He wanted to avoid that. Ms. Hammer stated that unless she heard something to convince her otherwise, regarding the noise level she was not going to support the nightclub in that location. She had been in the County Commission meetings when residents came in constantly regarding the noise at a certain facility. Decibel reading sounded good on paper, but in practice it didid that thump, thump, and thump sound. think it was fair to the already approved Kitterman Woods Apartment complex. Mr. Ciulla responded that he had been in this type of business for a very long time there were people in the business who were inconsiderate; not watching your doors and leaving your doors wide open was a completely negligent thing to do. He had never had any complaints or a problem because he kept the door shut and was considerate. He had security in the parking lot and kept everything contained inside the establishment. Mr. Lounds asked staff, if there were any residents on the property behind this piece of property. and why was it separated at this point. Mr. Flores said it was separate ownership. Mr. Kelly said there was a small h sure if it was occupied or not. It was an older home. Chairman Grande opened the public portion of the hearing. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 13 Carl Kennaugh of Canterbury in St. James Golf questioned the distance of the church school in relation to this property. The letter he had received was sent to people within 500 feet of the petitioner. The things that concerned him were that US Highway No. 1 was going to be center lined where it appeared that anyone from the plaza Corner down, including the day school, the church, etc. would have to go to Kitterman Road to U-turn to go back to Port St. Lucie. Since Lennard Road was being extended, Kitterman Road was going to be the one main outlet for Lennard Road; this would make it a very busy intersection. He felt that having five drinking establishments in a plaza and across the street there were two more was too much. The old Walgreens was a pretty big building, and he had not heard how many seats or people they planned to accommodate there. His opinion was that the center needed a nice retail outlet that didhave high volume traffic. Mr. Kelly stated that staff had not looked at the size of the potential occupancy of the building. Staff would also check the distance of the church from the project and include that information in the package that goes to the County Commission. Seeing no one else, Chairman Grande closed the public portion of the hearing. Vice-Chair Hearn asked legal counsel if in the event that this application was approved by the Board of County Commissioners and the business opened and became a part of the community, it later turned out to be a business that was having a negative impact on the community, and the Board of County Commissioners changed the noise ordinance, would that affect existing businesses also. Ms. Young responded that it would, because it was going to be related to the noise generated at the time. Mr. Lounds stated that he appreciated Ms. Hammerelt that this was a heavier constructed building that that of the one at Orange Avenue and that would help to keep the noise under control. He also felt that the people who were living in the area behind the building to the east already had to contend wi traffic and operations of the shopping center prior to the request. He didn the request. Ms. Young stated that the Board of County Commissioners could revoke the Conditional Use Permit if there were problems with the facility related to the noise or anything else. Ms. Hammer stated that there would be noise problems if the petition was approved with that apartment complex. think that it was a benefit to the community, the surrounding area, and the future residents of that area Mr. Hearn stated that after considering the testimony presented during the Public Hearing, including staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.07.03, St. Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant approval to the application of Mo-Jo Entertainment, Inc. for Conditional Use Permit to P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 14 allow the operation of a drinking place for alcoholic beverages, free standing night club in the CG (Commercial, General) Zoning District, because I think that we have a precedence here in our community that these types of things have been allowed to be established, but one condition on my motion; that is that if it proves to be a nuisance, a public nuisance to the community, that it be shut down immediately without going through all the process of what the folks at Sandalwood are going through now. Motion seconded by Mr. Lounds for the purpose of discussion. Mr. Lounds wondered if they wereprecedence for people not wanting this and being able to close it down with that statement; without making it specifically clear that it hadto conform to the County Noise Ordinance as amended. Vice-Chair Hearn responded that his concern was what was going on out on Orange Avenue Extension for years with a Noise Ordinance in place. People didat. want people who were inconsiderate. Ms. Young stated that they could Ordinance. If they became a public nuisance unrelated to noise, or other factors, that the conditional use could be revoked. Vice-Chair Hearn stated that he revised his motion to the language that Ms. Young just presented. It was acceptable to Mr. Lounds who had seconded the initial motion. Upon a roll call vote the motion passed (with a vote of 6-1) with Ms. Hammer voting against, Mr. Akins and Mr. Trias absent. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 15 AGENDA ITEM 7: JOHNSON ROAD DEVELOPMENT GROUP, LLC PUD-04-027 Mr. Flores stated that this is the application of Johnson Road Development Group for a change in Zoning from the AG-1 (Agricultural 1 du/acre) to a Planned Unit Development (PUD) Rocking Horse Ranch Zoning District for 160 acres of property which is located at the southwest corner of the intersection of Johnston Road and the Indian River County Line. The applicant is proposing a residential development of 160 single-family lots on 160 acres of land. The project is to be known as Rocking Horse Ranch. It does maintain 56 acres of the project area total common space. The applicant is also dedicating an additional 40 feet of right-of-way along Johnston Road. Staff has determined that the proposed Zoning District designation and Preliminary Planned Unit Development site plan are compatible with the existing and proposed uses in the area. This petition does meet the standards of review as set forth in the Land Development Code is not in conflict with the Comprehensive Plan. Staff recommends that you forward this petition to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval. Staff is aware of concerns relative to a development in the North County area; on Friday February 18, 2005 the Treasure Coast Regional Planning Council is scheduled to present its findings subsequent to the North County Charrette for the North County area at the Lakewood Park Elementary School. Based solely upon the standards of review as set forth in Section 11.06.03 staff finds that the Planning and Zoning Commission can forward a recommendation of approval to the Board of County Commissioners. Chair Grande asked staff if they had discussed the North County Charrette, its existence and the pending meeting Friday with the applicant at the time that this hearing was scheduled for tonight. Mr. Kelly responded that they had discussed it with nearly everyone in the area. The other issue was that they have said all along that those who expected an increase in density over existing entitlements would need to deal with the results of the Charrette. Those who come in within their existing entitlements, with no increase in density, there was no moratorium, that was a conscious decision and the board indicated that they would be able to go ahead with densities that were consistent with what was already on the ground. This applicant had chosen that path, and there were issues related to the North County Charrette. Vice-Chair Hearn asked staff what the concerns would be with this project for the North County Charrette plans. Mr. Kelly responded that the North County Charrette most critical area was I-95 over to Emerson, north and south of Indrio. The Charrette indicated one or more villages in the area with open land around the village, and the village density populated yet to be written transfer of development rights program. Those who came in and wished to develop at the existing density would be allowed to do so. His comment about it may not be as critical because the property in question was up on the county-line and one of the issues of the Charrette was that they would place a new greenway drainage system through the middle and if there was a project such as this out in the middle somewhere where it looked like it really might conflict with that future plan, hein a corner like this where it wa Vice-Chair Hearn asked what was the relation of Indrio Groves to this development. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 16 Mr. Kelly responded that it was nearby. Mr. McCurdy asked if at this zoning density would the Johnson Road Development Corporation be able to develop at one unit per acre without coming in for a PUD. Mr. Kelly responded that they probably would Ms. Hammer added that she would prefer to have lot sizes of one acre rather than 21,000 square feet, because at least there would be an acre to spread out for the digging of the well and placement of the septic tank. She did not know if they could put a well and septic on a one-half acre lot. Mr. Kelly responded that the Health Department allowed it as the minimum requirement. Ms. Hammer said she was not seeing a benefit in this case of going to a PUD where they would definitely get 160 units as opposed to just keeping the AG-1 where they would get 125 units or 120, 118 units. She wanted staff to convince her that the way she was looking at this was wrong. Mr. Kelly said he thought they got better storm water management, landscaping, and open space. wish to become the advocate for the project, but in a general discussion they had the downside on the septic side to the level that the Health Department allowed, on the upside they had improvements in other areas. Jeff Brackett and Dave Fisher with Schulke, Bittle & Stoddard the engineers for the project represented the petitioner. Mr. Brackett confirmed that they had met with staff earlier and they were aware of the North County Charrette. He tomorrow night. They tried to fashion the project in compliance with that in every step of the way with staff. The regulation from the Department of Health for minimum separation from a well and a septic was either 75 or 100 feet. They had met with County staff in order to provide the site with public water and sewer, but it was not feasible. There was no way to get it there. Mr. Lounds asked when the unit was built out, who would maintain the storm water areas d have water in them. Mr. Brackett responded the would; South Florida Water Management District required that covenants be Mr. Lounds asked if it was at all possible being as close as they were to the Urban Service Area potable water in the future, was there a way that when they developed the property that it could be adapted to potable water. He was more interested in providing potable water, public potable water to all the residents in the county rather than sewer. Mr. Brackett said that he understood and there was plenty of room in the right-of-way to put it in, so it was 100% possible to do that. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 17 Mr. Lounds asked if it was not prudent for them to ask that that be a consideration for future use of potable water in developments that would be going in from this day on. He was not asking that this petitioner provide layout the lots and roads that their engineers do it with consideration that in the future there will be potable water into this development. He asked staff if that was that something they could ask for. Mr. Kelly responded that he thought they could ask that the dry-lines be placed in the ground. d tearing the whole project up later to put the lines in. Mr. Lounds stated that he would ask that the dry-lines be placed in and not hooked to the houses, but for future potable for St. Lucie County that this group considered asking that that be a part of it for future use. Mr. Brackett agreed and stated that the applicant would not have a problem with that, only if they could get some sort of general timeline or guarantee that they would have potable water one day, not 20 years from now. Chair Grande stated that there was no valid assumption that there would ever be potable water in this area. With the Charrette plan being done, there wad ever be potable water there than there was before the Charrette; because if the Charrette came out saying that this particular area would not be one of the higher or denser areas, he couldn would ever consider running a water line to the area. Mr. Lounds responded that if they put the dry-lines in they step across the county-line and get water from Indian River County. Somebody needed to open up some utilities and supply water to these people. Vice Chair Hearn said that along those lines he was not sure that he agreed with Mr. Lounds e place nearby Indrio Groves and he thought there would be lines very close and if he were the developer he would put in the dry-lines now, He asked who the owner of the property and developer was. Mr. Brackett responded that the owner was Mark Brackett. Chair Grande asked legal counsel since this was a PUD application, the PUD currently did not have dry-was there some mechanism for them passing a PUD with that kind of condition. Ms. Young said there was, and particularly if the developer was indicating a willingness to do it, then it could be modified even before it went to the Board. Chair Grande asked the petitioner if in order for them to get this PUD approval recommended at this point, they were willing to commit to putting the lines in. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 18 Mr. Brackett responded they were amenable to putting in the dry-lines. He would ask if they could somehow have a reasonable time line assurance from the County that public water would want them sitting there forever. Mr. Lounds stated that given the opportunity to make that motion, it would involve asking the County to require a date to the petitioner when they appear before them that they would provide a wet-line to the development, if they put the dry-lines in. He thought that was a compromise that the County needed to reach out and to tap. If they did potable water, then there were some real problems. Mr. McCurdy asked what would be the price point for the lots, would it be a deed restricted subdivision, and would it be a gated community. Mr. Brackett engineers for the project, it would be deed restricted and also a gated community. Ms. Hammer stated that if the motion had the time certain forcing the County Commissioners to commit to a date for the water to go out there, then she would withdraw her support, because there were a lot of differences of opinion about the Urban Service Boundary and she didn it was fair to put that date on them. She felt that the cost was minimal to put in the pipe while the ground was already open, that it was worth it to the developer to be able to put this many houses in, to put that line in, and thought they should do it willingly. Chair Grande agreed with Ms. Hammer. Mr. McCurdy disagreed, he felt that the entire North County Charrette should address this item forthwith and not in the long term. Growth was here, it would continue. It was going to get faster. They need to know hot would be unfair to expect the developer to put in the pipe, it would be cheaper to do it now than later, but it was not a minimal cost. If it was going to be a 10 or 15 year window, a lot of stuff could happen to those pipes. Mr. Kelly stated that the North County Charrette or the original strategy started with do not move the Urban Service Boundary. It would allow for the development, the villages and towns. Used the transfer of development rights and created policy by which urban services could be provided to those people who played by the yet to be written rules. That meant that the public utilities could bring utilities to the towns and villages in an efficient manner. There was no intent to bring utilities to the countryside that was to be saved. Given the location of this parcel up in the corner and for the very reasons that he spoke to earlier that said it looked like a location that ing on in the Charrette, that same location criteria that I anytime in the near future, unless there was an agreement with Indian River County immediately to the north. He understood they required the dry-lines to go in, there ought to be some expectation that the water would really get there. He was not sure that they P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 19 Mr. Lounds said that his statement regarding making a motion or wording a motion that would help this development and the County possibly come to terms with putting water up there at some date, mean to imply that they water. They were an advisory board to the County and he felt that if they sent a message to them that we feel like that it would be to the advantage of quality of life to have water at that development and the other developments along Johnston Road, he did that, inside or outside the service area. There were developments going in west of Kings Highway that needed water and would be able to service water that was outside the Urban Service Area and the lines were there. He understood the reluctance to ask the County for a specific date, but he thought it was well within realm to suggest to the County a reasonable time to have water there, if these people were willing to put in dry-lines to obtain that. Chairman Grande opened the public portion of the hearing. Seeing no one else, Chairman Grande closed the public portion of the hearing. Chair Grande felt that this application was coming forward and they were being asked to make a recommendation to the County Commission, he would be very hesitant to vote in favor of a motion that had something attached to it that included a recommendation to the County Commission about moving the Urban Service Boundary or providing services outside the Urban Service Boundary. He would hate to, if this application was going to be approved on merit, see it not approved because they had tacked on something that was not realistic at this point. Mr. Hearn stated that after considering the testimony presented during the Public Hearing, including staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.06.03, St. Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners grant approval to the application of the Johnson Road Development Group, LLC for a change in the zoning from the AG-1 (Agricultural, 1 du/acre) Zoning District to the PUD (Planned Unit Development upscale project and will be a very good blend in that neighborhood. Chair Grande asked Mr. Hearn if he would consider as part of that motion a recommendation, but not a requirement that the water lines internal to the plan be put in at the time of construction. Vice-Chair Hearn responded that unless somebody convinced him differently, he would rather approve this on its own merit and then they could talk about that at the second motion. Motion seconded by Mr. McCurdy. comments that there was never any intention to run the lines up out there, she would withdraw her support for the dry-lines. If there was never ever an intention to have the wshe would go back to her original premise that one-half acre lots and she guessed the Health Department allowed that, but she felt they had to look into the future and plan for the future and felt they better off staying with the AG-1 zoning and make the lots be an acre in size. She felt that would P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 20 be safer with a well and septic tank for the future. Mr. Lounds stated that they had given the idea that they were going to have further discussion and recommendations before the County and asked him to vote on this, he felt very strongly about the feasibility of supplying potable water to any of these areas out there. Before he voted on this he wanted to hear what the rest of the discussion would possibly be. Chair Grande said that Mr. Hearn suggested that they treated this application as standing on its own feet or not. He believed Mr. Hearn was going to ask that immediately following this item or more than likely the next item on the agenda which was the last one, they then discuss amongst themselves whether or not they would want to move a motion that would recommend something to the County Commission regarding potable water in this region. Mr. Knapp stated that even though this was outside the Urban Service Boundary it appeared to be still very close within the populated community and they development not far from there. the dry waterlines se and being ways to I-95 that he just didwas going to or the city was not going to be able to service it with water anytime in the near future. Upon a roll call vote the motion passed (with a vote of 5-2) with Ms. Hammer and Mr. Knapp voting against and Mr. Akins and Mr. Trias absent. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 21 TH AGENDA ITEM 8: SOUTH 25 STREET, LLC PNRD-05-001 we top of your packet says 12/17/05 Page 7 that takes the place of Pages 7 and 8 with a lesser number of conditions than what were in is really the same graphic that you saw several months ago when we looked at the overall Oak Alley PUD (Planned Unit Development). This small portion of the Oak Alley project was shown as a commercial parcel at that time. Under a PUD we are allowed, or the code allows for up to 3% of the land area of the project to be commercial and that was really how treated this th originally. After looking at it, this is a small office park that presents itself to 25 Street and the community and not to the residential project. It really is a separate entity. The intent of the 3% is really to allow for commercial to serve the project; this After you recommended approval of the whole Oak Alley project we determined that this really is something different and ought to be a PNRD (Planned Non-Residential Development). We discussed with the applicant just taking it to the Commission as a PNRD because you had seen it, we believe that left a legal hole of a PNRD going to the Commission that this board had not project that you have already approved with instead of the whole thing being a PUD, now a piece of it is a PNRD so that we can take it to the board in a clean manner. Dennis is here and Mr. Klein is here and they have a you the flavor of the issue. The seven conditions that you had earlier and I indicated that they were related to both the PUD and the PNRD and they called me and said that the Conservation Area is entirely on the PUD, there is no reason to condition the PNRD with the Conservation Area that is on the PUD, so one, two, and three went away for that reason. We recognize and think also that there would be no media in, right out at this area, but there really is not enough traffic to look at the turn lanes, so six went away and four, five and seven became one, two and three and those are the conditions that are now on the sheet that I placed before you. We recommend approval. Vice-Chair Hearn stated that from what he read there was no access from the residential th component without going out to 25 Street. Mr. Kelly stated that if this was a small retail center, they would want a connection, because there would be convenience type uses. This was a small office center there would be that much traffic between the two and that was really the reason to separate them into a PUD and PNRD. Vice-Chair Hearn said he wanted to see access so that the folks could have a convenience store or whatever, not a general type of convenience store, but a small market or whatever where folks shop. Mr. Kelly Mr. Murphy would be able to answer think there was any intention to have any retail use; it would be similar to Laurel Professional Park which was where Culpepper & Terpening was currently located. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 22 Ms. Hammer asked on Page 5 the next to the last paragraph, the traffic analysis indicated that all no roadways in the study area would experience a decrease in level of service, was it all of them or none of them. Mr. Kelly responded that it was none of them. Mr. Knapp asked if on the commercial office space was there any conditional uses that would allow for any kind of a small grocery or small type store that the residents ultimately could in the future use. Mr. Kelly responded that there really currently was not that opportunity. intention was not to have that kind of a use at all, but be purely a professional type of park. Dennis Murphy with the firm of Culpepper and Terpening represented the applicant. He stated that they were there to talk about the commercial component of the Oak Alley project which the board had looked at sometime ago. This really was a cleanup issue from the last time that they were there. They were looking at making this an office operation for that area and respectfully requested that the board forwarded it to the County Commission with a recommendation of approval. Chair Grande stated that this was an application for PNRD, it had a site plan associated with it; was what was going to be built there. What it had were a couple of office buildings and parking, nothing retail. Mr. Murphy responded that was correct; it was almost going to be identical, maybe some architectural elements which had not yet fully been defined, to the Laurel Park where Culpepper was located. Chairman Grande opened the public portion of the hearing. Jill Sunderland, of Christiansen Road, asked if the block area between where the development was and where the other houses were was it going to be commercial property someday. Mr. Kelly responded that those were privately held parcels by other people. He went on further to state that the Commission recommended for approval the entire project not long ago with a residential component and under the PUD rules they could have 3% of the total area as commercial in a PUD. That was how it was approved. Staff reviewed it again and because it really was in the PUD that it was tied to the residential, staff told the applicant that they d think this was really clean and should go back and do it right. So rather than calling it commercial as part of the PUD, staff was calling the same commercial as a PNRD which was a Planned Non-Residential Development; really no change from what was done, other than to clean the issue up, so that as they moved forward the County Commission did petition that this board had never seen. th Ms. Sunderland stated that the traffic on 25 Street was horrendous; coming out to Christiansen unto Midway Road she has had to wait 20 minutes sometimes to get out in the mornings. She P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 23 th believed that there was some motion to continue the double wide of 25 Street all the way down, if that was a consideration, she wanted to see some kind of turn lanes going into the commercial properties, to avoid traffic getting backed up. th Mr. Kelly responded that the design for 25 Street was complete; construction should begin in th the next year or so to widen 25 Street. There was a raised median for most of it, there were few median would not be one at every driveway; and there would Ms. Sunderland said that her last comment was that Laurel Oaks was a beautiful development, she liked and she had moved to White City because of the trees and wanted to keep it as much residential as they could. She would vote that there was no commercial property in there, retail. Their office space was limited, evening traffic going with the office spaces, but Laurel Oaks was a nice community, if the trees were left alone, she felt that the community would accept it. Seeing no one else, Chairman Grande closed the public portion of the hearing. Mr. Knapp stated that after considering the testimony presented during the Public Hearing, including staff comments, and the Standards of Review as set forth in Section 11.06.03, St. Lucie County Land Development Code, I hereby move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend that the St. Lucie County Board of County th Commissioners grant approval to the application of South 25 Street, LLC for the change in zoning from the AR-1 (Agricultural, Residential 2 du/acre) Zoning District to the PNRD (Planned Non-Residential Development Oak Alley Office Park) Zoning District because I think it makes sense for this development in this area. Motion seconded by Mr. McCurdy. Upon a roll call vote the motion passed unanimously to approve. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 24 Other Business Chair Grande stated that the question that came up before about the possibility of sending a recommendation forward and asked Mr. Hearn if he had something that he wanted to put before the commission. Vice-Chair Hearn felt it was up to the developer. Mr. McCurdy stated that he would like to see the Urban Services extended throughout all the area east of Interstate 95 and North County. He commented that w to have to deal with it, and we need to get a plan. Mr. Lounds or for this board to send suggestions to the Board of County Commissioners. Too many times they did not listen to our recommendations anyway. have a problem sending a message to them that he felt that potable water in St. Lucie County was a very important asset to quality of life and health. In areas that were going to be developed, want to say heavily, but planned developments such as the North Charrette, the areas that were going in around Interstate 95 were going to be faced with the same problems out on Midway Road and Orange Avenue. There was a mobile home park on Angle Road called Avalon Trailer Park or Avalon Mobile Home Park that had about six units to an acre, anyway, dense, the septic tanks were in the backyards, the wells were in the front-yards. It had been there for 30 years, think about what they had in their wells. The point he wanted to make was that he felt it was well within our realm to suggest to the County to look at extending the waterlines beyond the Urban Service areas for the quality of life and health in this County. Ms. Hammer said that she didas a full day workshop at the Schrieber Center specifically on whether or not the Urban Service Boundary should be moved and the specialist that analyzed what the situation was, came back with a recommendation that it should not be moved, that the County still had plenty of buildable area within the Urban Service Boundary and there should be an encouragement to build and develop those lots. The developers all wanted to move the Urban Service Boundary, but the residents that were involved did not. Vice-Chair Hearn said that he agreed with Mr. Lounds concept and the reasoning behind his words, but believed that the development that was getting the water should pay for the waterlines to their project. Mr. Lounds responded that he didHe thought they should be assessed for it in the same way that the property that developed between them would have to id. He thought that if begin to look and get outside the box and advise the County to look at requiring or at least asking that conditions be used for dry-lines placed in, some of these units would end up with a Lakewood Park that it would be expensive to put water pipes in that place. Chair Grande added that he thought it was a great thing that the North County study was going on right now and wanted to see what they recommended before, and they should make P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 25 recommendations and reaction to what they recommended. Give them a chance to show us what He thanked the board members who attended the seminar in Miami because he thought that the three days that they spent together was great and he learned something from every other member and thanked them for it. Ms. Hammer said that they had talked about the possibility of changing the date of the meetings and needed to have a schedule set so that she could get it into her calendar and plan around those dates. rd Chair Grande responded that they were running on the 3 Thursday basis. Vice-Chair Hearn said that for over two years he had asked for a workshop and still wanted one. Chair Grande said that he had been talking with Ed Cox about that very question and scheduling either part of one of the meetings or a separate meeting for a workshop. Some people had suggested that maybe it should be joint workshop with this group and the County Commission and an interchange of ideas. Vice-Chair Hearn felt Ms. Hammer felt that the two groups should not meet at the first workshop. Chair Grande said that he would work with the staff to schedule a date and time within the next 60 days and have a fairly loose agenda that allowed for discussion of ideas that were not on that agenda. Ms. Young stated that at a previous meeting Mr. Hearn had asked about the Bluefield Ranch Mitigation Bank and how much the credit sold for. As of the end of January and she presumed that the figures were still the same, a single credit would cost $50K, a double credit which would mean it would apply for two agencies mitigation requirements was $55K. Bluefield was 2,675 was what they called the Uplift from the Environmental Mitigation Improvements to the property. It was not necessarily based on acres. Bluefield was a little bit on the large side, but it certainly was not the largest one in this area. It served both Martin and St. Lucie Counties. It was in the southwestern part of the County and it served a little bit of Okeechobee County, a little bit of northwest Martin County for their service area. Vice-Chair Hearn asked if when that credit was paid, was more land bought, and why not. Ms. Young responded that they had an established size for the bank and they had a mitigation plan, if it was similar, she was more familiar with the Bear Point Mitigation Bank which was the one that the County had on the island. She assumed that the procedures were the same for this bank, although it was a freshwater bank, unlike the one on the island, but they established basically the credit points based on what the assigned value to the environmental improvements P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 26 restoration that would take place on the site. Normally the cost of the credits then was determined in our case by a fair market analysis; annual appraisals were done to determine what the market was paying for mitigation credits. Vice-Chair Hearn asked if t on that land, or what was the money for. Ms. Young said that they would have a long term perpetual maintenance requirement for the bank; they had to establish escrow accounts that me monies would be perpetually available to maintain the bank. They probably were doing the restoration work in phases and as they completed portions of that restoration work then the agencies released a portion of their credits that they had already allotted to the site. If they did 100 credits worth of work, they could sell 100 credits. That gave them more money to buy down the road. But they had to initially fund those escrow accounts; they had to guarantee a certain return on the investment, and account every year to make certain that monies were always available. Vice-Chair Hearn said that they could expand on this during the workshop. Ms. Young said she would invite Jim David to attend; they had worked together for more than five years, closer to 10 on the Bear Point project. It took a great deal of time and effort to get one of these approved, pying to get multiple agency approval. The other question related to an issue in the minutes from the November 18, 2004 meeting, this was a question that Ms. Hammer had regarding a comment that she had made on the effect of increasing the density on one of the projects and the concern about not being able to ever go back and lower that density without having to pay for it. The question was what was actually said in the meeting and how it was reflected in the minutes. She had gone back and listened to the tape. Her question was would we ever be able to take away the density without paying for it. That question was directed to Ms. Young. M response was only if the landowners came in to request changing it. She Board would ever change it without it being requested, in other words, that the Board wou had marked up the minutes to reflect more accurately what was actually on the tape. But to better answer the question than she did that night, there were a couple considerations. Florida had a Bert Harris Act which looked rights and the impact on their reasonable expectation of a return on the property. Iely that the County would end up paying for a reduction in density particularly in the case where the was not the only thing, you could enter into a settlement agreement with a variety of ways to address the issue, but the short answer was we would probably pay for it in some manner, but again she did ever do that; primarily for that reason. Mr. Kelly stated that Mr. McCurdy had asked during his chairmanship to be provided with the two sections of the code that spoke to responsibilities and duties; he had them and passed them out. P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 27 Next scheduled meeting will be the special meeting on March 3, 2005. ADJOURNMENT Ms. Hammer made the motion to adjourn the meeting. Meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted: Approved by: _____________________________ _______________________________ Faith Simpson, Secretary Charles Grande, Chairman P & Z Meeting February 17, 2005 Page 28