HomeMy WebLinkAboutSpecial Meeting Minutes 08-11-2005
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
AGENDA
MEMBERS PRESENT:
Charles Grande, Chairman; Bill Hearn, Vice-Chairman; Stephanie Morgan, Pamela
Hammer, John Knapp, Ed Lounds and Kathryn Hensley.
MEMBERS ABSENT:
Russell Akins without notice, Ramon Trias without notice, and Carson McCurdy with
notice.
OTHERS PRESENT:
Mr. David Kelly, Planning Manager; Ms. Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney;
Mr. Hank Flores, Planner III; Ms. Linda Pendarvis, Planner II; Mr. Michael Brilhart,
Strategy and Special Project Director; Ms. Karen Butcher, Bike/Pedestrian Coordinator;
and Ms. Talea Owens, Administrative Secretary.
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Grande called to order the meeting of the St. Lucie County Planning and
Zoning Commission at 6:03 p.m.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
DISCLOSURES
ANNOUNCEMENT
Chairman Grande gave a brief presentation of the procedures as of what to expect for
today
The Planning and Zoning Commission is an agency that makes recommendations to
the Board of County Commissioners on land use matters.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
These recommendations are made after consideration of staff recommendation and
information gathered at a public hearing, such as those we will hold today.
The meeting will progress in the following manner:
The Chairman will call each item.
Staff will make a brief presentation on the facts of the request.
The petitioner will explain his or her request to the Planning and
Zoning Commission.
Members of the public will be allowed to present information
regarding the request.
The public portion of the meeting will be closed and the Planning and
Zoning Commission will discuss the request. Further public comment
will not be accepted unless the Planning and Zoning Commission has
specific questions.
The Planning and Zoning Commission will vote on its
recommendation after its discussion. For legal reasons, the motion
may be chosen and read from a script provided by staff. Motions
both for and against are provided to the Planning and Zoning
Commission members.
The recommendation is then forwarded to the St. Lucie County Board
of County Commissioners for their consideration and vote, usually
within the next Month.
Once again the Planning and Zoning Commission acts only in an advisory capacity for
the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners. If you are not happy with the
outcome of this hearing, you will have the opportunity to speak at the public hearing in
front of the St. Lucie County Board of County Commissioners.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
The roll call was made and Chairman Grande asked if there were any other
announcements to be made.
Ms. Pamela Hammer stated, in past times, she have had discussions about impact fees,
with school officials and with various developers and attorneys.
impact fees with the school officials, various developers, and attorneys.
Mr. Bill Hearn stated having conversations with members of the public and the school
had past conversations or discussions with members of the school board, developers and
attorneys.
Chairman Grande agreed.
Ms. Hammer stated the approval of the minutes was not on the agenda.
Mr. David Kelly stated they did not put the approval of the minutes on the agenda. He
stated Ms. Hammer has provided staff with corrections that are to be made in the
minutes. He stated Ms. Hammer has two changes that are also to be made in the minutes.
Ms. Hammer stated she moves to approve the minutes with the following additions or
corrections:
-
staff needs to
Mr. Kelly stated staff is working on the corrections.
Looking on page 27, Ms. Hammer stated she wants maps to be dated from this point
forward, so that it will be clearly known as to what map is being discussed. She stated all
other changes to the minutes are minor, such as word editing, and sentence structure.
Chairman Grande asked if there were any other corrections or comments to be added to
the discussion of the minutes.
Mr. Hearn seconded the motion. He stated he agrees with Ms. Hammer and the maps
need to be dated.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Chairman Grande asked if the motion includes the dating of the maps and the correction
of the votes from the previous minutes.
Ms. Hammer replied correct.
Chairman Grande announced that a motion and a second have been made. He asked
there were any comments on the motion.
All were in favor, and none opposed.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM 1: HOUSE OF PRAYER PENTECOST CHURCH INC.:
Ms. Linda Pendarvis presented this item. She stated the petition is for the House of
Prayer Pentecost Church and they are requesting a Change in Zoning from RS-4 to
Institutional Zoning, for property that is located adjacent to the Church. The property is
rd
located on the southwest corner of the intersection of Avenue M and 33 Street. She
stated the subject property is currently being used as a parking area for the Church. She
stated the petitioner has been given a grant to pay for the improvements of paving the
parking area. She stated it has been brought up to staff that Religious Facility is a zoning
that allows churches and accessory uses. She stated that staff recommends that they
change the zoning from Institutional to Religious Facility. No one was present at the
meeting to represent the applicant. Staff found the petition to meet the standards of St.
Development Code and to not conflict
Comprehensive Plan. Staff recommends that the petition be forwarded to the Board of
County Commissioners with a recommendation of approval.
Chairman Grande asked if any of the members have questions of staff.
Mr. Bill Hearn stated the purpose of the Institutional Zoning includes the number 999,
which applies to a use not defined under the SIC Code, but may be further defined in
section 2.00.00 of the SIC Code. He stated staff should look into defining the
recreational activities that are listed on the Institutional Zoning.
Chairman Grande asked if there were any other questions of staff.
Ms. Hammer asked if there were correspondences or letters from the surrounding
residents in regards to the proposed change.
Ms. Pendarvis stated there written correspondences but a next-door neighbor
of the property called and asked general questions regarding the new uses of the property.
She stated the neighbor knew that the subject area had already been use for parking by
the church.
Chairman Grande stated the proposal had been advertised as Institutional. He asked if
there would be a problem if the recommendation is a change to Religious Facility.
Ms. Heather Young stated there is not a problem if the recommendation is a change to
Religious Facility. She stated Religious Facility is a less intensive use than the
Institutional. She added similar request from churches in the past have been made.
Chairman Grande asked if a representative of the petitioner was present at the meeting.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Chairman Grande opened the public hearing.
No one spoke for/against the petition.
Chairman Grande closed the public hearing.
Chairman Grande asked the Board if there were any comments before the motion is
made.
Chairman Grande asked if it was possible to recommend a vegetative buffer on the west
side of the property, between the parking lot and the single neighbor on the west.
Ms. Pendarvis replied yes and that it is required by the Land Development Code to place
the buffer in between the two.
Mr. Hearn moved that the petition is approved with a change to the RF zoning district
instead of the I zoning district.
Ms. Morgan seconded the motion.
Chairman Grande announced that a motion and a second have been made. He asked if
there were any discussions on the motion. There were no discussions on the motion.
All were in favor and none opposed.
Chairman Grande stated the motion passed unanimously and will be forwarded to
the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation for approval.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM 2: AMENDMENTS TO SECTION 7.05.00 OF THE ST. LUCIE
COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE:
Karen Butcher, County Bicycle/Pedestrian Coordinator, presented this item. She stated
this petition is a request to amend the St. Lucie County Land Development Code. The
petition is to include language, for section 7.05.04 Sidewalks and Bikeways which is
currently reserved. She stated the petition is also to provide definitions in section 2.00.00
of the Land Development Code. In addition to the afore mentioned changes, staff
requests that changes are made to table 7-15 Right-of-way widths to accommodate the
inclusion of bicycle on pedestrian facilities. Staff is proposing 6 ft. sidewalks along
frontage of all new developments in the unincorporated areas of the County, as well as
6 ft. internal sidewalks for residential development. Staff has proposed to allow for
internal pedestrian paths to be unpaved to accommodate the rural character that some
developers are trying to represent. The only exemption from sidewalks, in a development
project, would be through a waiver request with the Board of County Commissioners.
Staff is also proposing that a developer provides bike lanes, when constructing or
reconstructing a road. Commercial developments will be requested to provide bicycle
parking as part of their site plan approval and some residential developments may also be
asked to provide bicycle parking. As a result of the additional facilities, staff will be
requiring an additional right-of-way to provide for Engineering to activate the mentioned
accommodations, after the developers have done their sections. Staff is requesting a
recommendation of approval of Draft Ordinance 05-023.
Ms. Butcher stated she and Michael Powley
further questions.
Chairman Grande asked if there were questions by any of the board members.
Mr. Knapp asked if the bike lanes were required on all new thorough fairs
(developments).
Ms. Butcher stated the bike lanes will be required, by the developer, on the construction
of any new roads. For example, if a developer is building new collectors/arterials, they
would be required to put in sidewalks and bike lanes on those collectors/arterials.
Mr. Knapp asked if there are any provisions for placing bike lanes in areas off the road,
for areas with limited space and not enough room for excess lanes. He asked if things
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
expand and there is not enough room for an extra roadway, is there a provision to allow
the bike lane to be re-routed through another area.
Ms. Butcher stated staff has verbiage that requires the bike lane. The verbiage is a 4ft to
5ft section of asphalt which is adjacent to the outside travel lane. She added staff also
includes language that references the bicycle/pedestrian Greenways Master Plan. She
also added they have received permission from the Board of County Commissioners to
send out an advertisement for an RFP. She stated with the Greenways Master Plan, if a
developer is developing in an area that has been identified as a Greenway and Trial or an
-routing of the bike lane. According to
the state of Florida, a bicycle is legally a vehicle and it has the all rights and
responsibilities to access the road.
Ms. Hammer stated some sidewalks prohibit full usage because they are cut off. She
stated in such cases where small children are prohibited from accessing full usage of a
sidewalk due to a cut off, she would rather see the sidewalks on both sides of the area.
She stated bikers are suppose to travel with traffic, and placing bike lanes on one side of
the road is not consistent with traveling with the traffic.
Ms. Butcher clarified that bike lanes are required on both sides of the road, as the streets
are being constructed.
Mr. Hearn asked if bicycles are defined as being motorized.
Ms. Butcher stated bicycles are non-motorized vehicles, according to a state of Florida
definition.
Mr. Hearn asked Ms. Butcher will other motorized vehicles have access to the sidewalk.
Ms. Butcher stated, according to the Florida Department of Transportation, all other
motorized vehicles that have access to the sidewalk includes, wheelchairs and/or
motorized wheelchairs.
Mr. Hearn made additional corrections to the typing and use of words in the staff report.
Ms. Butcher agreed to make the corrections. Ms. Butcher stated she pulled all of the
definitions from the Florida Department of Transportation to make sure that they were
uniform and that they would not be misconstrued as ambiguous by the county.
Mr. Hearn stated the property that is being mentioned in the Land Development Code
should be more defined for better understanding.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Ms. Butcher stated a developer would be required to design and construct sidewalks
within the right-of-way that abuts their property frontage. For example if the developer
has 175 ft. of property, then they would be required to put a 175ft. of concrete (6ft wide)
sidewalk, in the right-of-way.
Mr. Hearn pointed
requirements of sidewalk construction if it finds, after receiving the recommendation of
the Development Review Committee and based on conditions peculiar to the proposed
development, that the proposed sidewalk construction is not the best interest of the
County, the applicant shall pay a fee-in-lieu to the County for a sidewalk to be
In regards to the statement quoted above, Mr. Hearn asked if Ms. Butcher can further
explain or give an example of -in- take place.
Ms. Butcher stated previous applicants have applied for waivers to have roads paved, as
part of their site plan approval. She stated in such cases, they are not required to build a
sidewalk because they are not paving the road. On the other hand, if a developer could
provide a reasonable explanation (with an agricultural or Industrial Use) to the DRC
Committee showing why the pedestrians would not have access to their property, then the
Board of County Commissioners would have the authority to waive the requirements and
require them to pay cost of construction of what would have been their sidewalk so that it
can be put in another area.
Mr. Hearn stated sidewalks are more of a necessity on dirt roads than on paved roads.
On the sixth page under section B. Bikeways, Mr. Hearn pointed out that the word
areas in St. Lucie County.
related issues that are located in the unincorporated areas, rather than imposing sidewalks
or what have you in either Port St. Lucie or Ft. Pierce.
Mr. Hearn questioned about the
Sidewalks as part of the countywide developments.
Ms. Butcher clarified there are some developments that engineers receive plans on,
because they are along county roads and some of these developments are included in the
municipalities.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Hearn thanked Ms. Butcher.
Chairman Grande asked if there were further questions of staff.
Mr. Lounds pointed out in chapter seven, under 7.05.02-A-10 it reads as follows:
major collector street or roadway within the
unincorporated area of St. Lucie County or along any County maintained roadway in any
incorporated area of the County shall be provided with sidewalks and bicycle paths along
one or both sides, as determined by the County Engineer.
In regards to the quoted statement above, Mr. Lounds stated his concern is how the above
statement might be interpreted in the nearby future. He asked what the effects will be, if
any, of a dirt road being maintained west of Kings Highway, in the area where residence
is prohibited.
Ms. Butcher stated sidewalks and bike lanes are prohibited from being placed on dirt
roads. She stated part of the provisions of the waiver that was discussed earlier, includes
the applicants ability to apply for a waiver to the Board of County Commissioners to be
exempt from total or partial relief of the requirements to the this section of the Code.
For example, Mr. Lounds asked if the provisions of the waiver affect Mr. Sharard.
off of unpaved Pulitzer
of a sidewalk when the road is paved.
Chairman Grande stated the developer could pay in-lieu-of putting in the sidewalk and
the funds would be either held by the County or used for other purposes. He also stated
when the developer paves; he would no longer be required to put in the sidewalk because
he will have already paid off the obligation.
Ms. Butcher stated
pave their own road until the point that Pulitzer Road is paved.
Mr. Lounds stated there are other roads located further in the western part of the County
that will be affected in the nearby future and they are on dirt roads, where the
development comes into it.
Ms. Butcher stated staff currently does not have anything in the Sidewalks and Bikeways
section of the Land Development Code and it is reserved. She stated that Growth
Management is trying to get the developers to do their part in the County as well as
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
bringing the County back in to, provide a network so that sidewalks can be placed on the
streets.
Mr. Lounds pointed out that sometimes bike lanes are place in areas that are not safe.
Ms. Butcher stated according to the Florida Department of Transportation, it is required
that sidewalks and bike lanes are included on state roads when they are widened.
Chairman Grande asked if there were any other comments from staff.
Ms. Hensley stated this is welcome as far as the school district is concerned. She stated
that the school district has concerns about safe passages of students.
Chairman Gr, as 4 to 5
feet. He asked why a multi-use path is being referred to as 10 to 12 feet and a sidewalk is
6 feet if it meets the Land Development Code. He asked why the numbers were not in
the definition.
Ms. Butcher stated the numbers will be included in the definition for clarifications.
Chairman Grande asked if the minimum right-of-way widths have a basis for the selected
widths (shown in table 7.15).
Ms. Butcher stated in general, the minimum right-of-way widths are based on 12ft. travel
there is the addition of the bike lane and the sidewalk. In addition to collectors and
arterial, staff has to provide for turn lanes.
Chairman Grande asked if the county is prohibiting private roads to be built within gated
Ms. Butcher stated as stated in the Land Development Code, travel lanes have to be 12ft,
Mr. Hearn asked if the sentence that Chairman Grande read, includes existing roads.
Ms. Butcher stated no, it only applies to new construction.
development for a private road like a gated community.
Ms. Butcher stated if a developer is doing a PUD on their site plan, the Land
Development Code states the developer is required to provide 12 feet travel lanes,
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
including interior roads. She added interior roads may be called a private road because it
is not maintained by the County.
Mr. Lounds asked if lanes that are paved far from houses are included in this
consideration.
Ms. Butcher clarified that lanes that are paved far from houses are considered as
driveways.
Mr. Lounds asked Ms. Butcher it what she clarified was the distinction between a single
unit, or something similar to a driveway, in comparison to a private road in a gated
community, which was permitted under a PUD or a development process.
Ms. Butcher replied, yes.
Chairman Grande opened the public hearing.
No one spoke during the public hearing.
Chairman Grande closed the public hearing.
Chairman Grande asked if there was a motion.
Ms. Hammer motioned to approve the Revisions to the Land Development Code section
2.00.00 and section 7.05.00 with the corrections and changes that have been added by the
members of the Planning and Zoning Board.
Ms. Morgan seconded the motion.
Chairman Grande announced the motion and the second. Chairman Grande asked if there
was any discussion among the board.
A roll cal was made.
All were in favor and none opposed.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Doug Anderson, the County Administrator stated the County feels like a victim when
it comes to impact fees. He stated the County feels like a victim because the County has
imposed impact fees previously and the Board of County Commissioners have approved
increases to the impact fees, adjustments to the impact fees and creation of new impact
stated the City of Port St. Lucie has voted to stop collecting building impact fees, park
impact fees, and road impact fees for the county which will be effective October 1, 2005.
Mr. Anderson stated the growth of Port St. Lucie affects the entire County. He stated the
County has tried to work out the issue with the City of Port St. Lucie. He added he has
attended Port St. Lucie City counsel meetings. He stated he has presented the St. Lucie
recently finalized another meeting with the city of Port St. Lucie on August 23, 2005 to
discuss the matters again. However, if the County is not successful in accomplishing
what is necessary to keep the city of Port St. Lucie collecting the impact fees, the
Ordinance is in need of approval. He stated staff recommends that the ordinance is
approved before the Local Planning Agency and forwarded to the Board of County
Commissioners with a recommendation for approval because time is wasting. He stated
the ordinance is their fall back position, should things not work out with the City of Port
St. Lucie.
Mr. Anderson began the power point presentation by discussing the current impact fees.
He stated the County received $2,059 for roads, $3,122 for schools, $456 for parks, $182
for libraries, $347 for public buildings, $294 for fire EMS, and $172 for law enforcement,
which gives a total of $6,632. He stated the impact fees are only for capital expansion
and not to replace existing building square footage, or operating expenses. He stated the
only reason for capital expansion is because of growth.
Mr. Anderson stated correctional impact fees are a part of the building impact fees. He
stated Port St. Lucie has passed an ordinance stating they will no longer collect building
impact fees, park impact fees, or road impact fees. He stated by ordinance, the building
impact fees are broken into two categories. The correctional impact fees are 67% of the
building fees. He stated the correctional impact fees are for the jail and nothing more or
less. He stated the remaining 33% of the building impact fees go towards other
buildings.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Anderson stated new jail construction cost approximately 20.5 million dollars, which
impact fees. He stated the County borrowed money with the plan to reimburse the
borrowed money with impact fees. He stated the debt of the new jail is out to the year
2033. He stated the County has incurred to pay the debt by the year of 2033. He stated
in the year of 2013, the debt will drop by $262,000. He stated the debt on the new jail is
significant. Because of the debt service, the County is forced to take money from next
(from County Operations) and set it aside to cover the debt service. He
added setting the money aside to cover the debt service was required by the
Mr. Anderson stated the remaining 33% of the building impact fees go toward the other
public facilities impact fees. He stated the County is going to establish a new Clerk of
the Courts building in November of this year, in Downtown Ft. Pierce. He stated when
the building was designed; the estimated cost of the Clerk of the Courts building is 6.9
million dollars. There is a chance of that number coming in around 10.9 million dollars
because construction costs are rising rapidly. The area is over 50,000 sq ft. of new office
space. Currently space is being rented in the Orange Blossom Business Center, for
employees of the Clerk of the Courts due to hurricane damages on last year. He stated
the majority of the money from other public facility impact fees is all going into Court
expansion. He added that the Clerk of the Courts is not a luxury. He stated all legal
documents that are recorded in St. Lucie County, are recorded at the court house. Once
the building phase for future court expansion, Downtown Ft. Pierce will be built out and
all future court expansion will be in the south county, in Port St. Lucie.
The fees are important because of debt services and the
all of St. Lucie County residents including both Ft. Pierce and Port St. Lucie City. There
are also future expansion needs in the community. Currently, the County is building out
Walton Road. General fund money has to be used to finish Walton Road because impact
fees are undependable (coming in from Port St. Lucie) as of right now. He added the
Walton Road Complex is in Port St. Lucie and it is the newest and first building in Port
In St. Lucie West, the County is converting their break and
meeting rooms and where Guardian ad litum was, there is construction of a courtroom
and offices. Mr. Anderson added the County is maxing out everywhere and the County is
going to have to continue to build and expand their court facilities. If the impact fees are
not collected, Mr. Anderson stated he does not know how the expenses will be paid for
without raising property taxes.
verything south of Midway Road. The park impact fees have
park fees have been used for 8 inch Oaks and fairgrounds. He stated the County has set
aside $550,000 dollars for the Boys & Girls Club expansion in Port St. Lucie.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
the road impact fees that come from Port St. Lucie. He stated the County has
approximately 1 million dollars in Walton Road, in Port St. Lucie. He stated the
th
th
Street. More importantly, the impact fees being collected from the roads of 25 Street to
the turnpike over Pass Bridge going west were going to be used to widen Midway Road.
Midway Road. Solutions are currently being made for the over Pass Bridge over the
turnpike, as far as replacing it. From the over Pass Bridge, going west to I-95, there is a
th
four lane road. Construction for the section of south 25 Street to the turnpike over pass
was planned to begin in June of 2008. The money that was contributed from the impact
fees was used to construct roads, buildings and parks as designated.
Mr. Anderson stated the County proposes to issue impact fees in Port St. Lucie and
collect them because developers in Port St. Lucie do not want to pay extra impact fees.
Mr. Anderson stated the County has debt service that has to be paid and roads that have
to be built.
Mr. Anderson stated the expansion of law enforcements are shared by both Ft. Pierce and
Port St. Lucie City, such as infrared cameras, and equipment for helicopters. Mr.
Anderso
jail are not from Port St. Lucie, but from other areas of the County. However, most
knowled
the city lines or that they are crossing city boundaries He stated regardless what part of
the County the inmates come from, they still need to be held or incarcerated in the
C Therefore, as a part of St. Lucie
County, Port St. Lucie needs to be a part of the impact fees as well as the city of Ft.
Anderson closed stating the ordinance needs to go to the Board of County
Commissioners as soon as possible so that the ordinance can be implemented if things are
not worked out with Port St. Lucie.
Chairman Grande asked if any of the members had any questions for Mr. Anderson.
Mr. Lounds stated the 67% of the impact fees going into the corrections and the building
and the 33% going into the impact fees are direct relation to all county given facilities.
He stated corrections and the clerk of the court are countywide operations. He asked if
Port St. Lucie proposed to do their own countywide operations.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Anderson replied no. He stated the city of Port St. Lucie does not want a jail in their
city. Th Mr.
Anderson stated the jail serves everyone in the County.
Mr. Lounds stated Port St. Lucie should be allowed to make individual decisions that will
affect their city, but not individual decisions that affect the county overall.
Mr. Anderson stated many of Port St. Lucie residents use county parks. He added the
South County Regional Football/Soccer Stadium is used by both the city of Ft. Pierce and
Port St. Lucie.
Mr. Lounds asked would the impact fees be charged to a new homeowner in Port St.
Lucie if the city of Port St. Lucie was going to collect the fees.
Mr. Anderson stated in past times, Port St. Lucie would collect the impact fees and
distribute a percentage to the County. However, Port St. Lucie is now imposing their
own impact fees, leaving the County with the alternative of imposing an impact on top of
Chairman Grande asked if there were further questions.
Mr. Hearn asked if the fees which the County has imposed to collect are the same as the
fees that are going to be collected in Port St. Lucie at a reduce.
the city will be charging.
Mr. Hearn asked if Port St. Lucie and St. Lucie County will be charging impact fees on
the same items, such as parks.
Mr. Anderson replied yes. He stated Port St. Lucie will be charging a road impact fee,
building impact fees (which does not include corrections), and park impact fees. He
added the County funds the operations at the courthouse and at the jails (including
utilities)
Chairman Grande asked if there were further questions.
Chairman Grande asked if Port St. Lucie doest not agree to collect the impact fees that
are due to the County, does the County intend to continue paying for the capital
improvements which would have came from the impact fees being collected from the city
of Port St. Lucie.
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St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Anderson stated the County has to continue paying for the capital improvements. He
community. He added revenue short falls are coming up.
Chairman Grande asked if the County is being forced to budget for the expenditures,
which would have been made by the impact fees being collected in Port St. Lucie.
Mr. Anderson stated yes, and the expenditures are for the debt service.
Chairman Grande asked if there were further questions.
should be well thought about. He stated every town that he has been in that has a federal
prison in it, is known because of their prison.
Mr. Anderson stated the county is also advertising for county prisoners from other jails,
e healthy, non-trouble
makers and so forth, more like the trustees from the other prisons.
Mr. Hearn stated his concern was bringing prisoners to the community.
Ms. Hensley asked if Mr. Anderson could clarify that it is the obligation of the County to
provide facilities support and operations for all constitutional offices except the school
board.
Mr. Anderson agreed with Ms. Hensley. The county has to provide all of the offices for
the constitutional, and all of the facilities which includes; jails, courts, tax collectors, state
attorneys, public defenders and supervisor elections and so forth. The County provides
all of the money for the countywide
impact fees that the city of Port St. Lucie has imposed to stop collecting play a role in the
Mr. Lounds asked Mr. Anderson if the impact fees that the County charges are set from
one end to the other or are they zoned out. For example, he asked if there was a different
impact fee on South Beach than there is for Lakewood Park.
Mr. Anderson stated Dr. Nicholas will touch basis on that matter.
recommended for the County in past times. He stated Port St. Lucie have constantly
fought for the type of impact fees that the county is now fighting to have Port St. Lucie
continue collecting.
17
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Anderson stated the County has negotiated agreements with the City of Port St. Lucie
in past times until now, wherein the percentages of the impact fees were split between the
County and Port St. Lucie.
Mr. Hearn stated Dr. Nicholas had made a recommendation five years ago, concerning
impact fees. He stated Port St. Lucie complained about Dr. Nichrecommendation
concerning the impact fees to such a degree, that the impact fees were reduced to 1/3 of
what Dr. Nicholas recommended. Mr. Hearn closed stating Port St. Lucie, a smaller
whole, which he feels is inappropriate.
Mr. Anderson added the growth of Port St. Lucie affects the entire community.
18
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM 3: EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES IMPACT FEE-ORD-05-025
County Attorney, Heather Young presented this item. This it proposed ordinance 05-025,
the new impact fee numbers are as follows:
Single-family Homes would be increased to $4,956 from $3,192
Multi-family Homes would be increase to $2,536 from $2,505
Mobile homes/ Recreational Vehicles would be increase to $1,430 from $1,711
Other residential-type properties would increase to $4,956 from $3,192
The proposed fees will take effect on October 1, 2005. Included in the memorandum is a
ional fee
th
update was prepared for the school board along with a June 16 letter from the schools
superintendent, verifying that the school board had accepted the report. Staff is
recommending that the Local Planning Agency forwards the ordinance to the Board of
County Commissioners with a recommendation of adoption. Dr. Nicholas is present for
further questions.
Mr. Michael Lannon, Superintendent of St. Lucie County Schools, handed out a
reflection of a 20 year growth plan for the school system. The growth plan consists of
various components for the funding stream and is hoped to be able to reach
approximately two billion dollars over the twenty year period. He stated the totality of
the growth plan provides that opportunity to speak to the entire community about the
need that the County is facing in that school system, which is based on the current growth
(over 8.2% new students annually) which translate to greater than 2,700 students per
year.
Mr. Lannon stated the school board projects to be a school system of over 70,000
students in 20 years and approximately 37,500 by the end of the current school year. He
stated the need of being able to maintain, refurbish, and bring technical improvements to
the existing facilities, over 400 current buildings and over 4 ½ million sq. ft. of facilities,
and add more than 25 schools over the 20 year period, speaks to the need for a
multiplicity of funding sources. He stated the school board believes the increase in
regular property taxes is a major component of the educational impact fees, as well as the
continuation of half-cent sales tax.
19
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
The school board feels half-cent sales tax, local residents, and the tourism help as well as
the regular property taxes that are established by the state of Florida as part of the
required local effort, and school taxes, provides an opportunity for the growth to pay for
itself. All of the taxes that can be collected may be able to mitigate a potential need for a
future bond referendum, over time.
Dr. Jim Nicholas stated in St. Lucie County, all impact fees are designed to cover the
deficit which is the unfunded residual, having looked to all other sources of revenue
available first. The difficulty, with no exception to schools, is that the unfunded deficit
funds.
Mr. Hearn asked if Dr. Nicholas was talking about the deficit of new growth.
Dr. Nicholas clarified he was talking about the deficit of the cost of accommodating
growth. Dr. Nicholas stated within a year of school beginning, there has been a chronic
tendency for stated money to be withdrawn from the funds. School capital funding is
unique because there is a great deal of state law on the subject. The available sources of
revenue are capital improvement taxes, the CIT, general obligations bonds, sales tax and
state funding. Every source available for revenue is being used in St. Lucie County to the
max in St. Lucie County. The sales tax has been in place in the County for quite some
time and is due to expire shortly. The funding of the impact fees calculation is assumed
to be re-enacted by the public because they are at the legal maximum rate.
Dr. Nicholas stated all available sources of revenue are tapped out and there is not
enough money to meet the needs of growth. The discretionary source available for
funding is the impact fees for school. The state of Florida has recently established an
impact study committee. The state is looking at alternate methods of funding
infrastructure improvements.
Dr. Nicholas stated it cost approximately $20,000 to put a child in school, in St. Lucie
County. He stated when the land is acquired, and the school and ancillary facilities are
built, a transportation system is established, office equipment is provided, and all other
aspects that followed are provided, the total is approximately $20,000 per student. The
number of new students into the schools annually, grows rapidly.
The single family home generates approximately .4 new students per home. However,
not all of the new attendees of the school are coming from new homes. It is estimated
that about 18% of the net new attendees are coming from the turnover/ reoccupation of
existing homes, and about 82% are coming from new homes. It is important for the
school district to make sure that the cost of accommodating the other group of students is
not shifted.
20
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
In order to meet the cost of expansion, after all of the current taxes are combined, there is
still a need for approximately an additional 90 million dollars, over the five year contract.
The cost of development is 57% of the cost of new capacity expansion in St. Lucie
County. New development constitutes 82% of the growth and enrollment and 57% of
that cost is being charged in the form of the impact fee. The difference between the 57%
and the 82% is the credit given for the future developments payment of capital
improvement taxes, sales taxes and past payment credit. It would be inequitable and/ or
maybe illegal to shift the cost of accommodating new students from existing homes to
new construction.
Dr. Nicholas stated the cost per student is $19,000. He stated $900 of the cost per
student, is being paid by the state of Florida. In past times, the school district received
$4,283 from the Capital Improvement Tax (CIT), $706 for the General Obligation Bonds
and $856 for the credit for the Sales tax, which give a total of $5,846 from local sources
and $900 from the state. Dr. Nicholas stated the school district is left with $7,000 to
cover a $19,000 bill, which creates a deficit. The impact fee makes up the deficit.
The impact fee is charged per home, rather than per student, therefore the calculations per
student need to be converted to per home. The net cost/ deficit is calculated for the
amount of students there are for various types of dwelling units. In single family homes,
the net cost is $4,956 which is approximately a 60% increase over the existing net cost.
The mobile home net cost decreases because student occupancy decreases. The school
district is receiving fewer students out of mobile homes in the County.
Chairman Grande asked if the school district was receiving fewer students out of new
mobile homes.
Dr. Nicholas replied yes.
Dr. Nicholas stated the multi-
growth in the County is in single family units, which is also where most school-aged
children live. Multi-family units pay substantial fees. Hotels and Motels are exempt
from net cost because they do not generate students going to the public school system.
The average school impact fees around the state, is estimated to be $3,000 and St. Lucie
, which is substantially above the
existing average. Some school impact fee averages are extremely low, (such as
Hillsborough for example, which is $195) and some are extremely high, (such as
Osceola, which is $9,708).
The difference of the school impact fees in Osceola County and St. Lucie is the issue of
credits. The issue of credits includes the Capital Improvement Taxes, state money, the
21
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
sales taxes and so forth, in which Osceola County does not have. The total bill is on the
builder in Osceola County, whereas in St. Lucie County, the policy has been that the
deficit is on the builder.
Mr. Hearn asked if the school impact fees that are mentioned include all counties in the
state that have school impact fees.
Dr. Nicholas stated yes.
Mr. Hearn asked why many of the counties in the state do not have school impact fees.
Dr. Nicholas stated many counties in the state do not have school impact fees because of
lack of growth in schools. He also stated many counties do not suffer from over-
crowding problems in their schools.
Chairman Grande asked if there were further questions for Dr. Nicholas.
Mr. Lounds asked what
Dr. Nicholas stated in 1995, when impact fees were established, they were issued for a
variety of units such as Townhouses and Patio homes. The different types of units were
not required to pay impact fees because there was not a name on them. The different
impact fees.
Mr. Lounds asked what percentage of students comes from non-land owning family also
so known as renters.
Dr. Nicholas stated he does not know. Impact fees for rental units are paid by the
builders of the rental units. The money for the impact fees is taken out of the money paid
by the renters for their rent. There are no impact fees for older houses that have been
purchased or re-rented.
Mr. Lounds asked if an older house is converted into a multiple family building, is it
subject to impact fees.
Dr. Nicholas stated yes. The net increase makes it subject to impact fees.
Mr. Lounds asked if it was the net increase versus the completed value that makes the
converted building subject to the impact fees.
22
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Chairman Grande stated no. It is the net increase of the new units versus the old units
that make the converted building subject to impact fees. Each residential unit pays an
impact fee one time, regardless of how many families move in or out of the house.
Mr. Hearn pointed out on page 12 at the bottom of the chart, it reads as follows;
impact fee calculation. This is a reduction in the amount of an impact fee to reflect that
past payment of property taxes by vacant or undeveloped land. The presumption is that
there was no use of facilities, in this case public schools, and thus some consideration
dwelling units considered for the amount that the residents pay.
Dr. Nicholas stated no.
Mr. Lounds asked if the cost of each student, including capital cost, is $20,000.
Dr. Nicholas replied yes. After capital improvements are paid for each student, the cost
is $5,200 per year (including the first year), for every individual student.
Mr. Lannon stated in Florida there is the inability of schools systems to be able to match
capital dollars and operating funds. In the first year, the capital dollars build the school
and station the students, later impact fees focus on operating the schools. Impact fees
that are to be used for construction, can not be used for stationing students. Impact fees
can not be blended if they are not involved in the operating dollar.
Mr. Lounds stated his concern is the annual taxes that are added because of impact fees.
Mr. Lannon stated the Required Local Effort (RLE) tax is required by the state of Florida
and applied to every school district. The school board has no discretion as how state
taxes operate. State taxes are under state legislation. The operating dollars are sent
primarily by the legislature, with a small discretionary operating component that local
school boards may levy.
Mr. Lounds stated focus should be directed to the future taxes that will be issued by the
County and the school board because of impact fees. All impact fees have impacts on
future growth, for future tax bills.
Impact fees are deposited investments for future preferences.
Mr. Lannon stated if there is no
school system will go on double sessions.
23
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Chairman Grande stated the 20 year impact fee plan submitted by the school board may
work, until the capital cost per students change.
Mr. Lannon stated there is a CPI built into the 20 year plan.
facilities are.
Mr. Lannon stated the school board is building schools that are designed to provide basic
knowledge to attending students, which are to last for fifty years. The school board is
also building schools that will be able to endure category (5) hurricanes for public
sheltering purposes.
Mr. Lounds asked does the state assist in facilitating additional expenses for public use of
schools for safety shelters.
Mr. Lannon stated no.
Mr. Lounds stated it should be known to the public users of school facilities for safety
shelters, that the state plays no part in facilitation.
Dr. Nicholas stated in St. Lucie County, 82% of the students come from new homes.
Chairman Grande stated the school enrollment chart shows that the student for new
houses is one, rather than .41. He stated older houses have fewer students per house, than
the newer houses have.
Dr. Nicholas stated when a home first opens up; there are fewer than average students.
Within approximately two years, the amount of students in that home moves the average
amount.
Mr. Hearn asked if 18% of the students are created by existing homes and 82% from new
homes.
Dr. Nicholas stated yes.
The percentages of occupied homes increase as they are sold.
Chairman Grande opened the public hearing.
Mr. Don Santos, with the Treasure Coast Building Association, stated as time pass,
workforce housing is becoming a major concern in the community and every single cost
going into homes, need to be addressed. He stated education is the number one priority
24
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
on the Treasure Coast. He stated if the interest rates go high and there is a down turn,
there is nothing to take the place of the building industry.
Chairman Grande asked if there were other public speakers.
Mr. John Donahue, the chairman of the government affairs committee with the chamber
and the president elect of the economic development counsel, stated the Chamber and the
EDC are all in favor of the impact fees. He stated the County needs the impact fees to
teach the children.
Mr. Skeet Jernigan, for the Community and Economic Counsel, stated the Community
and Economic Development Counsel are supporting the impact fee and they are
-
Mr. Jernigan stated close attention need to be directed towards what is going on with
impact fees. He stated the impact fees are rising at exceptional rates. The money taken
from homeowners monthly accumulates to the life of a thirty year mortgage. The
impacts fees increase the cost of housing. If the cost of housing continues to increase,
there will be an impact on the type of people that live in St. Lucie County, the kinds of
people that attend the school, as well as the type of people that can find jobs in the
community.
Mr. Hearn stated the observation of the 62% increase would not be accurate, if the county
would have supported the impact fee that Dr. Nicholas had suggested five years ago. He
pointed out that 62% of the cost of owning land in St. Lucie County is minuscule,
compared to the tremendous increase in real estate in St. Lucie County. If the County
would have adopted what Dr. Nicholas proposed five years ago, there would not be a
need for a 62% increase now.
Mr. Jernigan stated if a higher fee would have been imposed at an earlier time, it would
have prevented many people from being able to live in the County, over a longer period
of time.
When spread across the majority, the cost of providing educational facilities in the
community would be more consistent, than issuing an impact fee of nearly $5,000 to
schools with a few homeowners tied to them.
Chairman Grande asked Mr. Jernigan if he supports the impact fees ordinance and
capital cost be spread among existing residents.
25
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Jernigan stated the county needs to find a source of revenue that does not
overwhelmingly impact new homeowners.
The real estate transfer fee, a fee that is paid upon real estate as it transfers from an
existing owner to a new owner, can be used as a source of revenue to support the impact
fees.
Mr. Lounds stated if the educational system in St. Lucie County is not improved, the
county will not attract the upper-end housing that should be attracted to the county.
Workforce housing does not bring the overall tax role to the County, which is what the
County needs. The impact fees are a part of finding a better attraction for the community.
Mr. Jernigan stated the community is composed of a mix variety of residents. The
escalating cost of impact fees on homeownership is becoming a major obstacle to people
who function in the community, in supportive roles.
Ms. Hammer stated first time buyers do not always buy new homes. If first time buyers
purchase a resale home, they do not pay the impact fees.
Mr. Jernigan stated first time buyers pay the impact fees if the house that they are buying
was a new home, wherein the impact fees had already been paid. The impact fees are
required to be paid, because the impact fee is always embedded in the price of that home.
Chairman Grande asked if there were any more speakers of the public hearing.
Chairman Grande closed the public hearing.
Ms. Hammer made corrections to the ordinance packet.
Ms. Hensley stated there will be further public discussion before the ordinance is
implemented so that the people included in the process, will not be at a disadvantage.
Mr. Hearn made corrections to the tables in the packet. He stated he would like the
information in the tables to be more updated. He asked that it be taken into consideration
that approximately 28 million dollars are spent busing the students in the community
from one end of the county to the other.
Chairman Grande agreed with Mr. Hearn.
Mr. Anderson stated growth does not pay for itself. He clarified that the legislature
approved the real estate transfer fee and it will go before St. Lucie voters in a year. The
real estate transfer fee will be used for research and education in the community, if
approve by the voters.
26
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Lannon stated the 28 million dollars that are spent towards busing is the value of the
approximate cost for buses is 12 million dollars annually and by stated law, about 8
million of that money comes as a direct reimbursement. The state law requires that all
students who live beyond two miles from the school must be bused.
Mr. Hearn motioned to recommend approval of the ordinance with the corrections that
were discussed.
Ms. Morgan seconded the motion.
Chairman Grande announced the motion and second, and asked if there were additional
comments.
The roll call was made.
All were in favor and none opposed.
Chairman Grande stated the motion passed with a unanimous recommendation of
approval of the proposal as corrected.
27
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM 4: PUBLIC BUILDINGS, ROADS & PARKS IMPACT FEES-
ORD-05-030
This item was presented by Heather Young, Assistant County Attorney. This is proposed
ordinance 05-0530, which creates an alternate collection method for impact fees for
presentations regarding impact fees in the county. There are no increases in the amount
of fees currentlunderlinesand
strikethroughs, which reflect the current with the CPI Adjustment annually. The date
that sets the fee as of 10/01/05 should be 10/01/05, which is the effective date of the
increases. The current rates are put into the ordinance for ease in the future.
community. The County is responsible for certain public buildings, such as follows:
Court facilities
Clerks building
All Constitutional offices
Property Appraisals
Tax Collectors
Correctional facilities
The County is responsible for the roads within the County roads systems. The County is
also responsible to the County parks and the regional facilities that serve the entire
community.
In the instances where the impact fees are not collected prior to the issuance of a building
permit (through err or mis-payment) or in the instances in municipality (which has not
agreed to assist the County in collection of those impact fees such as the ones that Port St.
Lucie has imposed), the property owner will be notified by letter, as of what fee they owe
and when it is due. The owner will have the opportunity, if a public hearing is requested
on the fee, to speak at the hearing. If the fee is not paid by the due date, a lean would be
placed on the property for the amount of the unpaid delinquency and after one year, the
county would be able to foreclose of the lean. This includes the public building,
mentioned above or outlined by Mr. Anderson, and parks impact fees for the County park
system and the road impact fees for the county road system.
28
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Staff recommends that the item is forwarded to the Board of County Commissioners with
a recommendation of approval.
Chairman Grande asked if any of the members have any questions of staff.
Ms. Morgan asked if the Constitutional officers of the County include the sheriffs.
Mr. Anderson stated the County built a new sheriff administration building a few years
Mr. Knapp asked if the impact fee for the schools was charged to the public schools or to
the private schools.
Ms. Young stated there are certain private schools which would pay impact fees for
roads, buildings and parks.
Mr. Lounds asked if the collection procedures differ for developers who build in areas
similar to Header Canal Road.
Ms. Young stated a developer who builds in areas similar to Header Canal Road has to
pay his/her impact fees as a part of their building permits process, or they would not
receive their CO.
Mr. Lounds asked if the procedures differ under municipality building permits.
Ms. Young replied yes.
Chairman Grande asked if there were any other questions of staff.
Dr. Nicholas stated there are no changes from the existing CPI adjusted impact fees. All
apparent changes will be typographical errors because there are no changes at all, other
than incorporating the last CPI updated version into the draft.
Ms. Hammer stated the road impacts appear to be decreasing for the retail, from the years
2001 to 2004. She added the road impact fees for industrial had also decreased. She
asked the reason being for the decrease.
Dr. Nicholas stated he does not know.
Chairman Grande stated the impacts fees were lowered, but there is no knowledge as to
the reasons for them being lowered.
29
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Hearn added the Industrial Warehouse fee from the year 2001 to 2005 has also
decrease.
Dr. Nicholas stated a variety of fees went down in non-residential categories, at the
direction of the Board of County Commissioners, as an economic development policy.
Chairman Grande asked for further questions of Dr. Nicholas.
Chairman Grande opened the public hearing.
Mr. Don Santos, with the Treasure Coast Builders Associations, stated he does not
understand the value of impact fees. If the County collects the full amount (100%) of the
impact fees, the value will be an increase in the amount of impact fees that the County
receives.
From a practical stand point, the alternate collection method is going to shut down the
construction industry, in the City of Port St. Lucie. He stated land owners pay impact
fees. When the County sends their certified letter, it will raise a red flag at the banking
institution, which is the source of funds for development. He added it will stop the next
draw on the development.
If the County sends out the certified letters in the middle of the construction cycle, asking
for an additional $4,000 or $2,000, the developer/land owner/new buyer has to come up
with the money to fund what the county is asking for. The bank does not fund the
additional charges that the county asks for.
into homes and have problems with credit and cash. These people most likely have to
borrow the money to pay the amount that the county is asking for and this throws off
their percentages when it comes to closing and may actually threaten their ability to buy
that home.
Builders have to pay subcontractors and if a builder does not get paid on a lot that he has
worked on, for whatever reason, he will not be able to pay the subcontractors. The
ere is a lot of
concern for this matter. It will never get to the one year where there will be foreclosure
because it will be stopped in the middle of the construction cycle and it will create havoc
for the building industry.
Chairman Grande added that was a strong point. He stated the county files a lean on
property is they do not get paid after the letter had already been sent.
30
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
the certification letter is sent to the owner of the
property, the general contractor or the builder and the financial institution. When the
financial institution receives the letter, all source of funds provided for the job ceases.
Ms. Young stated the developer has 60 days to pay the impact fees when they receive the
letter. She asked if it would be better for builders to let the homeowners know the price
of impact fees for the County, so that the homeowner would be able to include the fees
into their loan application.
Mr. Santos stated it would be better for the builder to let the homeowner know the impact
fee, but builders are building 8,500 homes per year, in the city of Port St. Lucie. He
added there will be thousands of homeowners that will not know anything about
including impact fee into loan applications.
st
Mr. Santos stated the impact fee alternate collection method will not work by October 1.
The City has to collect the funds and pass them on to the County.
Chairman Grande stated he appreci
make the collections, but comments or suggestions about city operations, need to be
addressed to the City.
them out to the homeowners.
Mr. Lounds stated St. Lucie County needs to notify all of the lending institutes of what
would be likely to happen to the construction cycle if the County sends out certification
letters. The lending institutes should notify those taking out loans.
Ms. Young stated, with regard to the notice and concern about it going to a homeowner
that does not understand what he is receiving, the ordinance provides for it to go to the
person paying the fee on the building application (which is the builder in most cases), as
well as the property owner of records. The letter is sent out to notify the builder. The
builder can address and explain the matters to the homeowner.
Mr. Santos stated there are no mechanism and no time to allow for the additional funding
time.
After loans have been put in place and construction has begun, it is difficult to find a
ense.
31
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Ms. Hammer asked Mr. Anderson how difficult would it be to immediately send notice to
the mortgage lenders and the community and to the Treasure Coast Builders Association,
informing them that this is on the horizons so that they would know and no one would be
unaware of what was happening.
Mr. Anderson stated it is possible.
Chairman Grande asked if the city had already stopped collecting taxes.
30, 2005.
Mr. Hearn stated the fee which is being collected now for roads is a set number. He
stated Port St. Lucie collects a percentage of the impact fees for their own roads and the
County collects the full amount for their own roads. He asked if what the County collects
is going to be adjusted.
Mr. Anderson stated no because they are not building any increases on impact fees.
He stated the total City impact fees for public buildings, roads and parks (the information
if from an unofficial source), is $2,712.
Ms
Mr. Bobby Klein, Klein and Dobbins law firm, stated he represents a large number of
developers in Port St. Lucie, he is a resident of Port St. Lucie and he will be building a
house in Port St. Lucie. He stated the City of Port St. Lucie collects impact fees pursing
to an inter-local agreement. The inter-local agreement had a termination date in it that
was agreed to by the county. The city had to give notice, and gave notice about a year
ago stating that they were not going to collect impact fees.
Essentially within weeks of the County lowering the tax rates, the County comes short of
funds.
Mr. Klein stated the taxable value that is currently being enjoyed by all of the local
governments is essentially being created by the growth, in the City of Port St. Lucie. It is
being created by the fact that 10 years ago, the city of Port St. Lucie purchased the water
and sewer system from the County and created an expansion that has allowed growth to
take place. The growth of Port St. Lucie is not in the expansion area west of I-95. It is in
32
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
the 80,000 platted lots within the city of Port St. Lucie that are now considered to be
valuable commodities because three years ago, they were selling for $3,000.
The valuation in Port St. Lucie that is translating into St. Lucie County is being created in
most part, by the demand for the existing platted lots, 80,000 platted lots in 80 sq. miles
that were created by GDC.
There is a contribution from what is going on in the City of Port ST. Lucie that is fueling
the entire county in the terms of lifting up the asset value, which provides more revenues
to the government. Port St. Lucie proposal to initiate impact fees for themselves has a
negative affect but the practical affect of the document is to impose a second impact fee
on Port St. Lucie alone.
The county receives back a portion of the impact fees collected by the city of Port St.
Lucie, and then gets a 100% of their impact fees. This raises the question as to it being
fair under the agreement, and why the County is now collecting the whole amount.
There are a number defects in the whole matter. It is difficult to accept, as an individual
in Port St. Lucie, that the residents of the City of Port St. Lucie that build a house, are
going to pay double of what anyone else pays. If the county has the countywide burden
to provide for services, then the only fair adjustment is the appropriate increase in the tax
rate that everyone contributes to, and the rising value makes it work more.
Ms. Young stated the growth within the existing platted lots leads to an increase in tax
revenue countywide. She added that the growth is also generating additional demands on
the facilities that the County pays for with the impact fees. The citizens that are building
the new homes are also going to benefit and use those facilities, whether it is the road, the
parks and so forth.
Mr. Klein stated for the past fifteen years, the community parks were only applicable to
parks without reference to the unincorporated area. If the justification for the impact fees
is necessary, by changing the Comprehensive Plan and if this has to be amended in the
proper format and adopted, the Comp Plan is not going to change by October 1, 2005.
The Comp Plan provides the validity to collect the impact fees, and they will not be able
to be collected on October 1, 2005.
Mr. Lounds asked if impact fees are placed in unincorporated areas, are they more or less
than the impact fees in the city of Port St. Lucie.
Ms. Young stated it is the same countywide.
33
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Klein stated the law on impact fees is well settled and there has to be a rational
connection between the impacts created and the fee charged.
Mr. Klein stated he suspects that there will be legal challenges to this effort.
Chairman Grande stated he does not view the legal challenges as a negative. The courts
are in area where the county may get objectives, analysis and a decision as to who is
doing what to whom.
In regards to the double taxation, it appears that there is an existing inter-local agreement
which was the result of a protracted negotiation. The overwhelming majority of the
funds that are collected in Port St. Lucie are going to Port St. Lucie for objects such as
roads. They are receiving 60% of 96% and 100% of the other 4%. It appears that the
negotiation between the County and the City should be kept between a single impact fee
and the numbers should be worked out so that they are representative of where the
monies are needed to be spent. As stated by Mr. Klein, the County would be collecting
an unfair portion because they are keeping the part that would have gone to the City. The
city is now collecting the same amount and not forwarding the 40% of the 96% that went
to the County aforetime, to the County now. In other words, both County and City are
equally guilty of double taxing and neither County nor City is innocent.
The County is working hard to come up with an agreement on impact fees, with the City
of Port St. Lucie.
Mr. Dave Skiles, president of the First People Bank and resident in the city of Port St.
Lucie, stated he represents the Chambers of Commerce. On the behalf of the Chambers
of Commerce, Mr. Skiles submitted and read a letter presented by the Chambers of
Commerce regarding proposed ordinance 05-030 and reads as follows:
Dear Board Members:
On the behalf of the St. Lucie County Chambers of Commerce, we would like to formally
offer comments on proposed ordinance 05-030.
Sec. 1-16.3-17.1 Alternative Collection Mechanism
1.We object to as it applies to
the collection of the Public Buildings Impact Fees.
Sec.1-17-30.1 Alternative Collection Mechanism
2.We also object to as it applies
to the collection of the Road Impact Fees.
Section 1-15-37.1 Alternative Collection Mechanism
3.We object to as it applies
to the collection of the Parks Impact Fees.
34
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
The Chamber has no objection to impact fees as a method of funding infrastructure to
accommodate growth. However, we strongly object to the alternate collection method
proposed through the above-referenced ordinance as it creates a significant burden on
industry and commerce and their right to expand and /or relocate into this area.
The effect of this ordinance has the potential to stop commercial construction as a result
of liens being placed on the builder and property owner. We ask that this Board strongly
reconsider liens as a method of collection and direct staff to further investigate alternative
of the County to collect impact fees. St. Lucie County is lucky to have a solid list of
leads and potential new businesses and jobs. Such an ordinance will likely strain those
efforts.
We appreciate your consideration and thank you for your time.
Respectfully submitted,
David W. Skiles, President
St. Lucie County Chamber of Commerce
Mr. Skiles stated he hopes that the County and the City can come up with a way to
arbitrate the impact fee dispute. As a proud citizen of Port St. Lucie and St. Lucie
County, Mr. Skiles stated he is a little ashamed that the dispute between the City and the
County has succeeded to this point.
Mr. Lounds asked Mr. Skiles if it was his opinion that the County should give up the
impact fees in Port St. Lucie.
Mr. Skiles stated no. He feels that the entire issue needs to be arbitrated. It needs to be
resolved in a more appropriate manner. He stated both the County and the City feels that
both going about it the correct way. The dispute between that City and the County is
going to affect the business industry and the image of the County and City in the state.
Mr. Lounds stated the Chamber should get together as a union in the community and
become a mediator to join both County and City together.
if both City and County agree, the chambers can and will play the role of a mediator as to
bringing both the County and City together.
35
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Lounds stated the officials in both the County and City have worked as hard as
possible and the entire County community needs to step up to the line and help resolve
the issues.
Chairman Grande stated he appreciates that Mr. Skiles strongly feels that liens are not the
right method to use for impact fees. He asked Mr. Skiles if he has an alternative
collection method. The city of Port St. Lucie collects the bulk of the fees through an
inter-local agreement. He stated Port St. Lucie is not satisfied with the 64% that they
currently collect from the impact fees, but want to collect it all.
Chairman Grande stated County intends on imposing their impact fees whether or not
Port St. Lucie imposes their impact fees. The County also intends on keeping their share
of the impact fees that they are currently collecting through the inter-local agreement
with Port St. Lucie.
Mr. Skiles stated the County is not being prohibited from collecting taxes;
the lien that the County is proposing to place on properties has become a major concern.
Mr. Anderson stated the reason why they are asking the board to approve the ordinance is
for back up purposes, should their negotiations not fail.
Mr. Jim McKenzie, from the Chamber of Economic Development stated the County and
County and its budget and the City and what it plans to do. There are two sides to the
story, and the truth lies somewhere down the line. Mr. McKenzie asked for further
decisions to be tabled because the impact fee dollars will never be collected in October,
even if the notice is sent out.
Mr. Hearn stated it appear that there is no end to the City vs. County dispute.
Mr. McKenzie stated when representatives from both County and City are gathered
together in front of cameras, they posture for positions. The ideas and opinions of both
County and City should be tied together and or research as to come up with one idea that
works for both, the County and the City.
Both City and County should meet without the cameras, so that no one will be posturing
and so that the City and the County can reasonably communicate.
Chairman Grande asked if there were any more speakers.
Mr. Skiles stated he agrees with Mr. McKenzie. The city expects the ordinance to pass at
the subject meeting. He stated tabling the ordinance will allow negotiation to take place.
36
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Chairman Grande asked Mr. Skiles if he was implying that if the County takes the first
step by tabling the ordinance that the city will put off implementation of their impact
fees.
Mr. Skiles stated he does not know, however it will be the first step in the negotiation
process and it is worth a try.
Chairman Grande stated if the County takes the first step, would Mr. Skiles and Mr.
McKenzie be at the next city meeting, telling the city that they need to withdraw the
threat of putting in their own impact fees and sit down and negotiate an agreement with
the County.
th
Mr. Skiles stated yes. He stated that should take place before the 26.
Ms. Hammer stated she sat at the Port St. Lucie City meetings and heard that city counsel
talk about implementing the impact fee. Sh
talked about implementing the impact fee and neither Mr. Skiles nor Mr. McKenzie were
present asking for negotiations. She finds it unfair that the County has been asked over
and over by city representatives or supporters to back off. The County of St. Lucie has
had the impact fee in affect for a long time. The city gets their piece of it. It was the City
that took the action that they were not going to take their share any more. If Mr. Skiles
and Mr. McKenzie would have been present at the meeting talking to the city counsel,
then backing off would not be a problem. However, Mr. Skiles and Mr. McKenzie were
not at that meeting asking no one to make any negotiations.
Mr. Skiles stated they are not portraying
Ms. Hammer stated Mr. Skiles and Mr. McKenzie have never spoken out against the
implementations of Port St. Lucie impact fees at a public meeting.
Mr. Skiles stated he never thought that it would get this far.
Chairman Grande asked if there were further discussion.
Chairman Grande asked Mr. Anderson for his opinion on tabling the ordinance.
Mr. Anderson stated he does not have the authority to recommend tabling the ordinance.
th
His concern is if things are not worked out on the 26, the county will not have a back up
plan, if the ordinance is not approved.
Mr. Hearn asked how soon the issue will/can come before the Board of County
Commissioners
37
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
and the Board of County Commissioners are the ones to decide whether or not it goes
through.
Mr. Anderson stated the Planning and Zoning Commission has to make a
recommendation, in order for the Board of County Commissioners has to make a
recommendation. Tabling the ordinance does not allow it to get to the Board of County
Commissioners.
Mr. Hearn asked if action is taken on the ordinance, how soon will the final decision be
made.
Ms. Young stated she believes the final decision will take place in the September at the
first public hearing.
There was talk about adjusting the percentages in the inter-local agreement as a way of
a way that would only apply in
municipalities if the municipality is not participating in the collection process. If a new
st
inter-local was negotiated prior to October 1, then it is not going to apply to the cities,
but to the people who get missed in the process whom the county notifies. It would not
st
apply to the cities if there is a new inter-local agreement by October 1.
Mr. Hearn stated whether the Planning and Zoning Commission decides to recommend
approval or denial of the petition, the Board of County Commissioners have the final
decision as whether or not it will go through or not.
Chairman Grande closed the public hearing.
Mr. Lounds asked if the board could devise a motion that may resolve both issues, to
approve the petition in lure of negotiation breakdown between the County and such have
you.
Mr. Lounds asked for Ms. Hensley to voice some of her opinions.
Ms. Hensley stated the Chambers have been working diligently behind the scenes of the
issue for a long time. They have been dealing with conflicts between counties and cities
for quite some time now. The Chambers has had group discussions and individual
discussions as well.
Her concern is that there is a lot of merit to what could happen just by the terminology.
She suggests that a motion is crafted so that the County will be given what they need and
put certain things in advance in case it works out. If the county goes forward with the
implementations already being in play and also puts the county in the position of a bully.
38
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Mr. Lounds stated Mr. Anderson, the Chambers of Commerce and the County
Commissions need to be advised of a motion to proceed with the petition whole-heartedly
in lure of negotiations and resolution breakdowns between the city of Port St. Lucie and
St. Lucie County.
Every opportunity needs to be given for the negotiations to start, and carry on and the
Chambers to fulfill their needs and make it happen.
Chairman Grande stated the Planning and Zoning Commission is not a decision making
body but are passing on a recommendation to the county.
If the County and the City work out a compromise and it is put into the form of an inter-
local agreement, nothing would be implemented even if it was passed because the impact
fees would be collected somehow cooperatively between the city and the county.
Ms. Hensley stated what Chairman Grande stated was correct but the intent is very
different. If the intent is to be that this body recommends that it is the last effort, after
everything else fails that this would be looked at for implementations, it needs to be
stated that way and not the reverse.
Mr. Knapp stated the only real way to let the Commissioners to know that there needs to
be further work done and an agreement needs to be worked out is by voting no against
the mandatory collection of the money and the liens.
illustrated earlier, the County and th
Ms. Morgan stated by going through with the alternate collection methods and liens, it is
as giving them an ultima
and pull together. The notice stops all funding for the builders and needs to be looked at.
Mr. Lounds stated he moves that they recommend to the Board of County Commissioners
of St. Lucie County that they adopt ordinance-05-030 in the event that a new inter-local
agreement can not be negotiated, or achieved between the two parties.
Ms. Hammer seconded the motion.
Chairman Grande asked Ms. Young if the motion was in an acceptable format.
Ms. Young stated yes.
39
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Chairman Grande announced there was a motion and a second and asked for further
comments.
A Roll Call was made.
Ms. Morgan voted no.
Mr. Knapp voted no.
Mr. Hearn voted yes.
Mr. Lounds voted yes.
Ms. Hammer voted yes.
Mr. Grande voted yes.
Mr. Hearn commented stating the discussion has been healthy and it will send a message
to the Board of County Commissioners that they expect them to do everything to avoid
Chairman Grande stated item 4 has passed on a 4-2 vote. The recommendation, as
outlined in Mr. Lounds proposal, will be passed to the Board of County Commissioners.
40
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM 5: PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN:
This item was presented by Michael Brilhart, County Strategy and Special Projects
Director. This item is a proposed change to the St. Lucie County Comprehensive Plan. It
is an amendment to change the text of the Future Land Use, Transportation, Recreation &
Open Space, Intergovernmental Coordination and Capital Improvements Elements.
Several years ago when the County adopted its Comprehensive Plan, the wording on all
a number of issues such as the municipalities versus county.
A number of County owned maintained facilities that are within municipalities.
The idea is to be able to recognize that the county maintains or operates through it
facilities countywide versus unincorporated. At the advice of the Co
consultants,
operate and or construct plans from a countywide perspective, which includes the
unincorporated areas.
Chairman Grande asked if there were questions of staff.
Ms. Hammer made grammar corrections to the staff report.
Chairman Grande opened the public hearing.
No one spoke.
Chairman Grande closed the public hearing
.
Mr. Hearn stated he did not find the staff report to be countywide based. He asked if the
countywide establishment will take place now or in the future.
41
St. Lucie County
Planning and Zoning Commission/ Local Planning Agency
Special Meeting
rd
Commission Chamber, 3 Floor, Roger Poitras Annex
August 11, 2005
6:00 P.M.
Ms. Young stated countywide includes incorporated areas as well as unincorporated
areas. The growth in the incorporated areas impact what the county has to do on a
countywide basis.
Mr. Hearn stated he would like to follow the recommendation completely and ask that
M
Ms. Hammer seconded the motion, with the corrections that she made.
Chairman Grande asked if there was any discussion on the motion.
Mr. Lounds stated he would like to know if the changes to the text need to include
incorporated areas of the County as well as the unincorporated areas of the County, to be
considered countywide.
Ms. Young stated if unincorporated is changed to countywide, it is inappropriate to say
countywide and unincorporated because if it is countywide, then it covers both
incorporated and unincorporated areas of the county.
Chairman Grande stated everything will be considered countywide and it will be
Chairman Grande announced the motion and the second.
All were in favor and none opposed. The motion passed unanimously.
Chairman Grande asked Ms. Young to include the minutes of item 4 into the packets for
the Board of County Commissioners meeting.
Having no further discussion, the meeting was adjourned at 10:30 P.M.
42