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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJoint Meeting Minutes 10-16-2009BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ST. LUCIE COUNTY, FLORIDA JOINT MEETING WITH THE CITY OF PORT ST. LUCIE, THE CITY OF FT. PIERCE AND THE FT. PIERCE UTILITIES AUTHORITY Date: October 16, 2009 Convened: 2:00 pm. Adjourned: 3:55 p.m. Commissioners Present/BOCC: Chairperson, Paula A. Lewis, Charles Grande, Chris Craft, Chris Dzadovsky, Doug Coward Commissioners Present/City of Ft. Pierce: Mayor, Bob Benton; Rufus Alexander, Christine Coke, Reggie Sessions, Edward Becht City Council/City of Port St. Lucie: Jack Kelly, Vice Mayor; Linda Bart, Michelle Berger FPUA Board: Pamela Cully, Chairman, Darrell Drummond, Tom Parona Others Present: City of Port St. Lucie City Manager, Don Cooper; City of Ft. Pierce City Manager, David Ricor Mr. David Recor, City Manager for the City of Ft. Pierce made opening remarks. He advised those present they have embarked on a formal process outlined in the Florida Statutes, Chapter 171 Part 2. He believes that it was apparent that the two staffs had walked away with a different understanding at the last joint meeting held. Mr. Recor stated he did not believe they needed to go down the agenda per item. He believes each jurisdictions issues will come out as they discuss the two main issues which are recognition of Midway Road as the north/south boundary of annexation for the City of Port St. Lucie and the City of Ft. Pierce and recognition of area 'B' on the Ft. Pierce Utility service area map as the exclusive area of service for the Ft. Pierce Utility Authority. Mr. Recor reviewed the map presented. The North/South Boundary - Mr. Recor stated the service area boundary map was indicated on the agreement when the utility was sold to the City of Port St. Lucie. North/South is Midway and East/West is Rangeline Road. Mr. Don Cooper City Manager addressed the City of Port St. Lucie's policy of voluntary annexations. The city receives annexations only on a voluntary basis. The city received an annexation request from the project Provence north of Midway. The City Council has not made a decision on this and the project requested to withdraw that request and is not under consideration at this time. As City Manager he recommended not annexing this project. He believes this is a policy decision and solely at the realm of the City Council Members. The city has not expanded its utility north of Midway; however, FPUA has expanded their utility South of Midway. He had proposed the same option as what Mr. Recor stated previously and it was rejected by FPUA and the city of Ft. Pierce. He believes this issue of the service area is still in limbo and has not been settled. The city's perspective is the service area agreement as a policy matter has to be decided by the City Council. The city is not contemplating any annexations at this time. Mayor Benton addressed what he felt they were looking for today was to have that agreement that was discussed in February. He also addressed the gentlemen's agreement previously made by the means of a handshake. Vice Mayor Kelly addressed the meeting in February and he believed the council's consensus that there was no threat of annexation north of Midway Road was clear. He personally does not support annexation north of Midway. He reiterated the fact that Ft. Pierce did expand south of Midway. He recalled 10 years ago Ft. Pierce stating many times in the Newspaper and -1- in meetings there were no designated areas. Now 10 years later you want to have a service area. The only benefit of having an agreement on paper would be to the City of Ft. Pierce what would be the advantage to the City of Port St. Lucie, which is considered one of the best utility in the state and being the only one who could service a company coming in quickly such as Provence for example whether it be with a bulk water agreement or the city did it and believes it would hurt the county's economic development if they were not able to do so. He does not have a problem with a bulk water agreement such as the one they had with the county seven or eight years ago. He does not see any benefit for the City of Port St. Lucie or its residents to have an agreement. Commissioner Coke stated they had lived his long with a gentlemen's agreement and would like to have something more concrete than just a ha~idshake. In the interest of fairness, she believed they should withdraw from servicing south of Midway and draw an annexation line from Midway Road and a service line at Midway. She also recalled there being a discussion in February that the city of Ft. Pierce would not object to the City of Port St. Lucie selling bulk water to the county north of Midway on an emergency basis until such time the city could do so. She believed this would be in the best interest for everyone. If they can agree to the annexation line at Midway Road and agree utility authority not service anything south of Midway and that the City does not object the City of PSL selling bulk water to anyone they could not service. Vice Mayor Kelly questioned where is the benefit of tying up the city of Port St. Lucie hands. He has no problem doing anything as long as it is done as before with the bulk water agreement. He believes the City Council would not have a problem with this also. As one person he does not wish to tie up his utility's hands and an agreement north of Midway would tie the utilities hands. Commissioner Lewis questioned if he was preserving the ability to provide direct service. Vice Mayor Kelly said yes, which would be in the interest of economic development. Mr. Recor stated it was hard to quantify what benefit it would be to the City of Port St. Lucie and felt they were doing a 180 degree turn from the last discussion. He did not believe he supported annexation north of Midway. Vice Mayor Kelly stated Mr. Recor was putting words in his mouth and this was not what he had indicated. Mr. Recor stated one of the benefits that can come out of this process would be a joint planning agreement between both entities addressing Mayor Christenson's concerns she raised at the last meeting between the two jurisdictions. The fundamental issue is down to a matter of principals relating back to the 1994 transfer of the utility to the city of Port St. Lucie that established Midway as the north/south boundary. The question is when is Port St. Lucie big enough and both communities have grown to a point where they are now rubbing elbows. This is the natural dividing line. The benefit is that Port St. Lucie now has the opportunity to enter into by this process or by joint planning agreement an agreement that will allow reciprocal review of development where their elbows touch. Vice Mayor Kelly stated he is not talking about annexation, he is talking about utilities. He believes tying up the utility's hands would be setting a precedent and felt it is bad for economic development and bad for the county overall. Unless someone comes in with 10,000 jobs, he would never vote for annexation north of Midway. Mr. Recor stated if they are focusing on the utility then area B is where the FPUA has the exclusive right to provide bulk service in this area. Councilwomen Berger stated making specific statement such as this would require a response by the City Attorney. -2- Mr. Thiess, FPUA addressed this issue and stated what he believes Mr. Recor was stating was that in the agreement between the City of Ft. Pierce and the county that they are the sole bulk provider for the county. The problem they are having is the lack of storage in the area. He indicated they had performed hydrant tests at both Midway Road and the Turnpike and they can flow easily. They can accommodate 1,000 gallons per minute if both of the connections are on. They are in need of a storage tank of a decent sire where they would able to provide 2,000 gallons per minute which equates to 10,000 units. Mr. Roger Orr, Port St. Lucie City Attorney stated the City of Ft. Pierce/ FPUA are claiming an exclusive right to serve. The City of Port St. Luce does not acknowledge this. In the agreement to that affect it did not involve the city so they feel the city of Port St. Lucie is not bound by it. Who has the ability to serve, they may have that agreement with the county they mayor may not feel bound to each other on that. The City of Port St. Lucie is not bound by it. The City may be bound by general law as to who has the right to serve in terms of availability. The City of Pt. Port St. Lucie is not going to give into the assertion of exclusivity by being silent today. They do not acknowledge this as being binding to the City. Commissioner Alexander stated his thought on the whole situation was they are here today speaking of St. Lucie County as a whole, three entities. His concern is when they are going to act as one, in the best interest of all the citizens in St. Lucie County. Commissioner Sessions stated he looked at this as two economic engines with a common goal that is being successful in economic development for each of their municipalities. They are both traveling down the same road. If a boundary is not established one side may cross over to the next side and they know what this means. They should avoid litigation and encourage both to work together to avoid any kind of litigation. Commissioner Coward addressed the opportunity they have to cause delay and possibly the loss of economic development opportunities. He alluded to the Wal-Mart Distribution Center as an example. He believed that one of the benefits of clarifying this now is for them to be able to expedite the desirable economic development that they are attempting to bring in. He believes this is extremely important. Commissioner Dzadovsky stated this was a Chapter 171 discussion and sated this provided different provisions within that Chapter. He addressed the need to look at the big picture and review the possibility of a unified Utility Authority. Commissioner Craft stated he supported his idea of a Regional Authority but does not hold any hope for it. There are 3 different interests in utilities. Commissioner Dzdovsky stated now was the time to consider this idea due to today's recession. Vice Mayor Kelly asked why the city would want to merge. It would not be fair to those who have paid and built their utility for the last 20 years. Why would you want to merge the Board of Renault with Toyota? The City of Port St. Lucie has a number one utility. He believes it is disingenuous to say that the City of Port St. Lucie is a demon. Mayor Benton stated he believed combining utilities would not happen in his life time and he felt why existing residents should pay for growth elsewhere. They have the ability to service this area and this is their future. Today they are hoping to confirm the agreement they thought they had whether it be bulk water. This is just an issue that popped up and he believes they should not let a developer get between the entities. Mr. Don Cooper, Port St. Lucie City Manager stated he believed the general law states they cannot cross another utilities lines and they have constructed the infrastructure to the south and this is why they are being approached. The FPUA can also make the same type of investment to provide the service and until that time the city cannot expand. In the absence of -3- that infrastructure investment, if someone comes in and requests service, they have the ability to request the service then the questions is who can serve? FPUA or the county can make the same infrastructure investment. Mr. Thiess stated he believed the bulk service agreement was that they were going to provide service until the county built their facility out west and then they would take over with their own plant. FPUA could provide 2,000 gal a minute at the connection point of Midway and Okeechobee which would get them through until that time. If a developer was to come in today then the tank would need to be built whether it be by the developer or the county, they could be ready to provide the service quickly all they would need to do is to make the tie in from the west side of the turnpike to the south side. The game plan would change if the county decides not to build their own treatment/capacity plant. Councilwoman Berger stated she supports bulk water agreements the issue is direct service versus annexation. She stated she was not interested in annexation north of Midway Road unless there is a specific benefit to the City of Port St. Lucie. She has had several individual conversations with those in attendance and Com. Becht had several conversations with one developer and she believes this is what should happen. She believes the gentlemen's agreement has basically worked and alluded to the times they have attempted to work as one. Com. Coward stated he believes what they are trying to do is solidify the agreements that have worked in the past and build on them. He believes if they refine those agreements they will then have the ability to come up with an important document that will help provide clarity. Councilwoman Berger stated they still need to come together, however she is hearing the undertone if they do not do this they will be sued and this is what she heard from Commissioner Sessions and Mr. Recor as well. Commissioner Becht stated he is not sure how they will move forward. He has seen something he would like to avoid in the future, that being property owners playing the entities against each other. They as politicians should not let this happen. He believed they run the risk of letting the circumstances repeat themselves if they do not do something. Vice Mayor Kelly stated he believes the standing 15 officials get along quite well. He believes the property owners did not have the opportunity to play them and they tried to shop with each entity and they will always try to do it. He is still looking for the benefit to the city in tying the utilities hands. He stated he did not have a problem with having a Joint Participation Agreement, however he still does not agree with tying the hands of the utilities. Councilwoman Berger stated she had a concern with tying the hands of future Councils. She believes there is no need to look north of Midway Road. She would like for the City of Ft. Pierce to prosper because she would like for the City of Port St. Lucie to prosper with them. She is looking at other options for expanding Port St. Lucie and it's all based on commercial and developing the area in a way that is profitable for everyone. Com. Craft stated he believed they are to say what would happen in the future. They need to shift the discussion as to what and how they would want the area to look like in the future. They have a tremendous opportunity for the corridor the question should be what do they want here? Do they want jobs? They all need to work cooperatively. Com. Coward stated he believed they needed to have a broader discussion not just about utilities, they need to have discussion on land use and other issues regarding what kind of development, what type of growth they wish to promote as well as what type of job creation. Councilwoman Berger stated she had concerns with losing control and this is why the council needs to have discussion before making a decision. She would ask her city council to refrain from giving an answer today especially with the possibility of a suit. She expressed her concern with services and not specifically utilities but bridges, roads etc. -4- Mayor Benton stated he believes they were attempting to resolve some of the issues today and he hoped they could go back and have staff come back with something that they can live with. Vice Mayor Kelly stated he did not vote for the annexation and he is glad he made that decision. He recalled the GDC situation where they inherited many residential lots with no jobs and no place for anyone to shop. He still questioned what would be the benefit to the city. Commissioner Coke stated she was not there today with the intention of a law suit. She believes they would miss a golden opportunity to put in concrete what is in a gentlemen's agreement. She felt there was an opportunity to solidify what is in the agreements. Com. Grande stated they needed to have people knowing who they need to deal with as far as land planning rather than giving them the ability to play one against the other. He challenged the staffs to work out an agreement in a defined period of time (30 days) for those coming into the area to look at and say, I know where I have to go and I know how long it's going to take. Also they know how much it will cost as well and being made aware of the criteria for approval may be. They have staff that has much experience in dealing with large, small, industrial, residential and commercial developments. He believed something can be put on the table. He recommended staff be challenged to come back with a JPA that answers the questions and come up with what they wish to accomplish without legal staff. Vice Mayor Kelly stated why not just write it all on paper. He stated he wanted a JPA and not tie his Utility's hands. He believed it would be difficult to get a JPA within 30 days; however as far as what may be in the JPA they will continue to discuss and not subvert each other. He stated they were always going to have free enterprise between the three entities as they do with Martin and Indian River Counties. They also sit on the MPO's, Fire Boards, and other things where they have to look at the entire county. Mr. Perona, FPUA Board member stated he was happy to hear the flow of comments between all the entities and he is encouraged by some of the movement that they have accomplished. He stated that from the standpoint of the Utility Company, and all everyone is concerned with is the business of utilities, those lines have been made and they have to be defined. There are assets, planning and other issues going on line and they deal with these issues on a daily basis. He stated not knowing what is going to happen in that area affects the way their utility planning is going on at this moment. It is not a question of wait until the day we need it or not. Planning is being done now, and there are pipe being placed in the ground as well as facilities being built and contemplated and this is important for what they do. He believed it was the duty of everyone to make sure that they do not have stranded assets. Com. Craft stated he know they had dollars set aside for planning in area, i.e. the research park is and he thought the area had been identified and funds set aside for a charrette or some sort of planning effort for the Midway Road corridor. The Growth Management Director confirmed they had set aside monies for charrettes for planning and stated they are presently working on an agreement with the Research and Education Park presently. They have been exploring the JPA they have been talking about and would be ready to go with it once it was setup. Com. Craft stated he was specifically speaking about the area for Provences or the Midway Road corridor in general. The Growth Management Director stated they could look at that. Com. Craft stated he would recommend the county move forward with that particular plan, and invite each of the cities and their staffs to be part of that entire process. He stated he concurred with Councilwoman Berger's comments that they do not wish to hamper what has been done in South County and what they have done with the Research Park and the -5- investments they have made. He believes having input from both cities and the county ultimately is important and does not believe the county will control the property anyway. He believes while they are still in transition, they should all come to the conclusion and make an agreement as the Board of County Commission moves forward and make sure that they have the cities there. He does not have a problem with the county making sure they make the investment, so that they can get something that makes everyone happy and keeps them out of the courtrooms. Com. Craft commented on the planning efforts and having a Comprehensive Western Land Study with the hope of identifying some type of innovative new approach that would protect those property rights, but provide the opportunity to potentially transfer those units into more appropriate areas. He believes there is no value to transferring those if the developers are able to get development rights from the cities for free, or for a reduced amount. Com. Coward stared he believes the only way they are going resolve the broader issue is going to be in conjunction with the cities. They have already identified the funds and are embarking on the Western Lands Study and have recognized they must engage the cities in the dialogue and not only as it related to those units, but going back to the theme of the entire discussion. He believes the JPA would layout the basic framework and identify those additional aspects that would need to a done such as the Western Land Study. The other idea was concurrency and taking care of the extra jurisdictional impact. Com. Sessions stated everyone knows that the entire global system is built on territory. We have countries versus other countries and states versus other states. All they are attempting to do as far as the City of Ft. Pierce is concerned is to establish their territory. This would eliminate any of the entities, the county and both cities from potentially having a conflict that will lead to courtroom action. He stated they are not there to demand anything, but are there to establish a territory so that they can set the parameters, so that perhaps potential developers would know who to deal with to eliminate any potential conflict. Com. Dzadovsky stated he commended Com. Coward for folding in the 171 discussion. He believes it's important and incumbent upon all of those present to participate in the future land planning of the county. He would like to make sure that all present staff and elected officials maintain an open line of communication during that process. Councilwoman Berger stated if the City has the funds to make it happen then they should and marks their territory. Vice Mayor Kelly stated there were only three councilmember'syresent, however if they could get a consensus to go to the other two Board members to bring this to the full City Council the fact they would like to proceed with a JPA. If he could get a consensus from the other two Board members they would have a majority. The next step would be for the City of Ft. Piece to do the same as well as the County Commission. A meeting could then be scheduled. He advised those present the City Manager would be leaving in 3 months and it would not be on his agenda unless the rest of the City Council decides to do this. Councilwoman Berger stated she believed it would be appropriate to bring it to the Council for discussion solely. She does not wish to bring it back saying they are moving forward on the JPA and what would they think? She believes it should be presented as the discussion held on the JPA. Councilwoman Bartz stated she would be agreeable to this. Mayor Benton stated he believed this is what he had heard from everyone. Com. Coward stated he hoped this would be done and felt it was an excellent idea. He believed the content of the JPA will be critical. He stated thai• the staffs have input on a variety of issues and will struggle to determine how much to try and put there and they should at least identify the tasks that they intend to work on together. He emphasized the extra jurisdictional impacts -6- that they saw almost evaporate through the SB 360. He also alluded to the comments made by Mr. Cooper, Port St. Lucie City Manager regarding the legality of crossing over utility lines. Councilwoman Berger stated if they wanted the territory they should go ahead and put the utilities into the ground. She believes the fundamental planning approach is not to prematurely make large scale public investment in infrastructure prior to the demand being there, therefore, not having the rate payers pay for that capital investment, and having to shift it onto existing residents. Com. Coward stated the way to do long term planning in his opinion is to identify the territory and as the demand comes online, you build your infrastructure out. To suggest that you should he the territory defined in advance by making premature capital investments on the backs of existing rate payers is opposite of what they should be doing. Vice Mayor Kelly stated their utility was not in that situation. Mayor Benton stated that in Ft. Pierce they have a different scenario due to the fact they have an older city and their big issue is replacing existing line that are in some cases 75 or 80 years old. Com. Lewis stated she truly believed that if they all agree to either go to the JPA or at least take one back to their respective Boards for consideration, they were pretty much agreeing that they were not going to do a "grab-it -and- run" activity. She believes they are agreeing that they want to work this out calmly and on paper that they are not going to go spending public assets unwisely or quickly. She believes they all pretty well agree. She stated looking at the lines on paper is one thing, but agreeing on how they will move forward is another. If everyone agrees to plan jointly, and advise each other of the needs, it will take a lot of the "sting" out of it. If anyone sees a motion going on, and they have the ability to discuss it calmly before it happens, she believes it will work. Mr. Recor stated he believed everything that had been discussed today is contemplated under 171 Part 2, clearly the establishment of water and wastewater. He alluded to Councilwoman Berger's comments relating to roads ownership, construction and maintenance. He stated best of all, the JPA, 171 Part 2 also provides for a process for making land use decisions jointly. He stated while he has heard the 30 day term, he would like to remind everyone that the stature also allows for six months of negotiations to occur prior to one party or another declaring an impasse. He would like to remain optimistic that they can keep moving this forward. He does not believe 30 days is realistic. The Assistant County Administrator addressed Com. Craft's question regarding the Charrette for the Midway Road area. She stated there currently are funds in the budget for planning studies, although Midway Road was not specifically identified. However, as everyone knows they are in the midst of trying to address the projected 2010/2011 and 2011/2012 budget gaps. They are looking hard at those funds and she would want to just put the members on notice of this issue. The Assistant County Administrator advised the Board she would get back with them and would meet with the County Administrator and look at the funding that might be available to assist with the charrette in that area should it become part of the JPA. Com. Craft stated this area is of great importance to all three Boards that he would be hard pressed to remove the money from the budget. He would also consider using some of the reserve funds if they had to. Com. Dzadovsky stated he would like to have an agendad item as to how they are going to move those funds and referred back to the City of Ft. Pierce's City Manager's comments regarding the 171 Part 2 and the section that provides for a six month negotiation process. -7- Com. Dzadovsky questioned where were in that process and if that time has started. Mr. Recor, Ft. Pierce City Manager stated that as the party initiating the process, he does not believe either jurisdiction has the required response time. He believes they are working cooperatively and area at least 60 days into the process. This meeting was required to occur 60 days from the date of the responding resolution. Due to scheduling, they were not able to do that. However, he does not believe that either one of the jurisdictions being that they are all getting along so well that they are going to say that six months has passed and we haven't reached an agreement, if all three jurisdictions agree that they six month time period can be extended if we're making progress. Com. Dzadovsky questioned if it could be accelerated. Mr. Recor stated clearly, he understood that it was a priority, and they would do what they could to expedite the process. He advised the Boards they have the bones and the structure of a joint planning agreement in place. He will be putting together a time frame and take the lead. Mayor Benton stated he believed they had a consensus from the City Commission that they can enter into this JPA. He believes they will be back with something to review in January. Mr. Recor stated if they could have a discussion document on the structure of the JPA by the end of the year, he believes they would be realistic. Com. Grande stated his feelings were absolutely correct, if they throw out a number like 30 days, you would force people to come back to reality and they would own up to it. Com. Becht stated he would like to leave the meeting today a little ahead. He referenced Mr. Recor's earlier comment where they are rubbing shoulders with the City of Port St. Lucie. He stated he as one City Commissioner would like to task him with where they have any projects that rub shoulders with Port St. Lucie. He stated they should notify them what they are doing and that does not take 30 days. This could be accomplished today. He stated, if Port St. Lucie could be so kind as to reciprocate with that it does not take 30 days. He stated he would like to end the meeting on that note. Vice Mayor Kelly stated he did not like words being put in Port St. Lucie's mouth. His position from the beginning of the meeting has not changed. He does not think his fellow Council members have changed. He brought up the JPA first. Again, annexations, any ruffle of feathers with the county or the two cities, basically that's it. He stated if they wish to put in the JPA about resolution for utility problems north/south of Midway Road and out west, and he believes with the city of Port St. Lucie, it just is not Midway road. If that's in there, bulk water type agreements, which the city has had before... at no point does the City or his other two Council members agree that Midway Road.... Mr. Recor stated he apologized and he clearly misunderstood what he had said. Vice Mayor Kelly stated, he had heard one other Council member, beside himself, say that she is against annexations north of Midway Road. He stated he had no intention whatsoever of voting for anything like this and as far as tying the utility's hands he believes they remain solid on that issue. He cannot speak for the entire Council; however he believes the other two Council members feel the same way. They should have a JPA done in less than six months. There being no other comments made, the meeting was adjourned at 3:55 p.m. -8-