HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 21, 2011 Approved MinutesCITIZENS' BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: October 21, 2011
Conference Room 3
MEMBERS PRESENT: Carl Hensley, Chair
John Culverhouse, Vice Chair
Dan Kurek
Jane Bachelor
Richard Pancoast
Edward Lounds
Ron Knaggs
Patricia "Pat" Ferrick
Stephanie Morgan
MEMBERS ABSENT: Dana McSweeney
Randy Ezell
Craig Mundt
Jay L. McBee
Bill Hammer
OTHERS PRESENT: Faye Outlaw Beth Ryder
Marie Gouin Jennifer Hill
Roger Shinn Don West
Mark Satterlee John Ferrick
Ken Pruitt Michael Quinn
Kathryn Hensley Karen Smith
Mike Monahan
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order at 7:32 a.m. Since there was no quorum at that
time, he asked Ms. Gouin to begin her presentation.
UPDATE ON FY12 ADOPTED BUDGET
Ms. Gouin gave the Citizen's Budget Committee 2011-12 Budget Update PowerPoint
presentation attached. The date on the third bullet of slide 2 should be September 22nd
Ms. Outlaw added that FY13 and FY14 are projections based on everything staying as is.
Mr. Pancoast saw an article that states there may be an amendment on the ballot that
would put an additional cap on residential taxes on homesteaded property. He can't
imagine that folks would turn it down. The Committee may want to start thinking and
planning for that. Ms. Outlaw said they discussed possible amendments in Strategic
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October 21, 2011
Page 2
Planning, assuming they would be approved. Any increases would have to be absorbed by
savings or fund balance, unless the Board increases the millage. Benefits and Florida
Retirement System (FRS) contributions will impact the budget. In the County's efforts to
eliminate positions to deal with the budget situation, we have run into compliance issues.
The financial impact is still being calculated. Positions changed from temporary to part-time
will affect the budget going forward. The retrospective charges will affect the fund balance
side. The prospective charges will affect the operating budget. Another example is the
Governor is looking at trying to recoup from municipalities the savings they achieved by
having their employees pay 3% of their salaries into the FRS. The County is watching the
situation. Mr. Knaggs asked for clarification. Ms. Outlaw said if it was retroactive, it would
be an even bigger impact.
Mr. Knaggs handed out the attached "Expenses Too High For Revenue" sheet. Mr.
Lounds asked Mr. Pruitt about optimism for FY14. Mr. Pruitt answered that he is optimistic
about FY13. Mr. Knaggs explained that he is used to rolling forward actual numbers as
opposed to budget numbers. He read the numbers for each year and the notes. His
conclusion is that we are certainly in trouble. Even though his numbers are different from
the County numbers, there is far less revenue than is needed to cover expenses. We have
to reduce expenses. They may disagree on when the fund balance will run out, but it is
close. Ms. Outlaw said his analysis agrees with what she has told the Board. Our
expenses are out of line with our revenues. In Outlaw language, the goal has to be to bring
the recurring expenses in line with our recurring revenue. There were comments in the
minutes of past meetings that Mr.. Knaggs sounded like he was skeptical. He wanted to
clarify that even though he came to the answer in a different manner, he was there. He
would like to know why there is a $7 million difference. Staff will sit down with Mr. Knaggs
and figure it out. OMB will set that up.
Mr. Hensley observed that they both said we have to reduce expenses. Where is the part
about trying to increase revenue? He knows that increasing the millage is not popular. It
would help to balance.
Ms. Outlaw said there are limited ways to increase revenue. Mr. Hensley said we cannot
take the idea off the table. You have to look at all the ways. There is only so much you
can reduce and still have a functioning government. Ms. Outlaw agreed and feels the
toughest is ahead of us. The Board is not comfortable with making any more reductions
because they feel any further reductions would harm the County. If we cannot reduce any
further, it only leaves the option to increase the revenue. We've made the cuts that were
painfully comfortable. We have a tough job in front of us when the Board looks at the
budget. They have indicated they do not want any budget reductions in FY13. We are
going to be looking at a plan for FY14 with a team of all the agencies funded by the
County, this Committee, the Board, staff and perhaps residents.
Mr. Kurek said we are not in as bad a shape as some northern places. The City of
Indianapolis has consolidated all their City and County .government. It was afive-year
initiative. Grand Rapids Michigan has combined their fire department and is still struggling
with a $3 million shortfall. They have laid out a plan to consolidate everything else.
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October 21, 2011
Page 3
Several cities in the Midwest are going this way because they have no other options. If
things don't get better, we need to push in that direction. Grand Rapids/Kent County has a
budget committee that has power to recommend budgets to the County and City. It is
interesting. We are not as bad. But if we don't do something, we could be that bad. Ms.
Outlaw added that as a member of International City and County Management Association
she gets a monthly newsletter that tracks municipalities across the Country. In every
newsletter, there is a County or City that is filing for bankruptcy. It is happening all over the
Country. She gave the example of Lauderdale Lakes. They waited too late. The
Governor has the request to take over that City's finances. Ms. Outlaw is very nervous
about our situation. After waiting two years, the pill will be so bitter; all the water in our
utility system will not make it easy to swallow.
Mr. Lounds asked if it would help if the Committee looked at criteria. He mentioned
essential services, support for essential services, nonessential services and administration.
Should they make a list of areas that could be reduced? They don't have the political
factor involved, but they do have resources. Ms. Outlaw said the Committee has been
valuable to her and the Board. She would appreciate any approach the Committee would
like to take to help with the next step.
Mr. Knaggs looked up the charter of the Committee (see attached). Mr. Lounds suggestion
fits. He thinks it is a marvelous idea. It is a tough political thing to do, so why not take it
out of that arena. Mr. Lounds added that if they don't, they are not doing their job. If it is not
accepted, at least they did their job. He doesn't like the effects of the other entities on his
tax bill, but they have to focus on the BOCC part. He does not think it would be hard to list
essential versus nonessential. Even if more departments were consolidated, it would not
be enough. Ms. Outlaw said they could discuss under Other Issues or in the next meeting
what they think their role should be. County staff will work with the Committee as deemed
fit.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES -June 17t", June 30t" & July 11t" Meetings
Mr. Hensley welcomed Jane Bachelor to the Committee as it was her first regular meeting.
She attended meetings at the Fenn Center. He thanked the Committee for participating.
He thought it was fabulous that ten members were there for the. July 11t" meeting.
Mr. Hensley announced that Randy Ezell had resigned from the Committee. There had
been one vacancy. So there are currently 13 members.
After a motion by Mr. Pancoast and a second by Mr. Culverhouse, the June 17t" minutes
were unanimously approved. Mr. Pancoast made a motion to accept the June 30t"minutes.
After a second by Mr. Culverhouse, they were unanimously approved. Ms. Morgan made a
motion to approve the July 11t" minutes. Mr. Culverhouse seconded the motion. Mr.
Hensley noticed the time adjourned was not correct. The secretary offered to check the
time and correct it. The motion was passed with the correction.
Mr. Pancoast asked if they had to have such detailed minutes. Ms. Petrick said it was
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October 21, 2011
Page 4
necessary if they want the Commissioners to know what they have done. Who reads the
minutes was discussed. The Board gets the same minutes that the Committee gets the
same day the Committee gets them. When concern for the Commissioners knowing their
recommendations was mentioned, Mr. Hensley said the Committee talked to Board
members and made a presentation at Strategic Planning/Budget Reviews.
BOCC FY 12 BUDGET WORKSHOP SCHEDULE
Ms. Outlaw asked them to pass out the revised schedule for 2012 Budget Workshops (see
attached). She walked the Committee through the list. Mr. Knaggs asked how the
workshop schedule aligns with the Committee meetings. Ms. Outlaw said that is part of
what she wants to find out from their discussion. She would like the Committee to discuss
their role and the structure of their meetings since the Board has said they do not want to
make any changes and they are having work sessions. She wants the Committee to stay
plugged in. Mr. Hensley expressed his concern that they would be marginalized. Timing
and options were discussed. Mr. Knaggs would like to have information before the meeting
so he could think about the subject. Mr. Hensley asked them to think about the situation
and they would discuss it at the next meeting. Suggestions can be sent to Brenda or Mr.
Hensley. Mr. Knaggs suggested that the July 2012 meeting should include the third
quarter review of expenses.
Mr. Lounds does not want the Committee to get bogged down in short-term and lose sight
of long-term issues. He feels 2014 and 2015 are going to be crunch.
Mr. Knaggs asked if Mr. Lounds was thinking of the full committee meeting. The number of
members and additional meetings were discussed. 2007 was the year we were at our
highest level. Ms. Outlaw offered to get department services information to the Committee.
Sunshine laws were discussed.
CBC FY12 MEETING SCHEDULE
Ms. Outlaw summarized that the Committee decided to keep the meeting schedule as is
and if they want to do something in addition, it would be set up at a later date.
OTHER ISSUES
Mr. Hensley asked the members to sign a card for Mr. Mundt and the attendance sheet.
Mr. Knaggs updated the Committee on Mr. Mundt's condition. Ms. Morgan commented on
her dad's health.
Mr. Knaggs asked about nonprofit funding/excess revenue. Ms. Outlaw explained how
excess revenue was in the budget. Ms. Hill added that it was budgeted, but more
conservatively than it is now. It was used as a cushion. Mr. Knaggs expressed his
concern of nonprofits or maintenance projects not being in the budget process. Ms.
Outlaw said they are looked at. Mr. Knaggs asked about the timing of the funding and
2015. Ms. Outlaw explained the new policy for the nine nonprofits. One million dollars has
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October 21, 2011
Page 5
been designated for FY13. They would always be funded a year out so that if the excess
fees don't come in as expected, the community would have a year to make the adjustment.
The Board can change the policy. The maintenance projects are done on ayear-by-year
basis. The buildings must be maintained. In the event of a hurricane, it must be
demonstrated that the buildings were maintained for FEMA to pick up reimbursement. Mr.
Knaggs asked for clarification as to whether these items would still be funded when and if
the County runs out of fund balance. Ms. Outlaw said it depends on the Board but as a
practical matter, she would think they would discontinue funding the nonprofits; the
maintenance of County buildings has to be done. It will be funded out of the excess fees
or the operating budget. Mr. Knaggs asked why it was taken out. Ms. Outlaw said so the
Board could review the projects each year.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Hensley thanked the group for their attendance and diligence and announced that the
next meeting would be November 18tH
Mr. Lounds asked about a list from Ms. Outlaw of departments so they could begin their list
of essentials/nonessentials. Where should he send a list of what he thinks is essential or
nonessential? Mr. Hensley said to send them to the secretary. Ms. Outlaw suggested they
allow Ms. Outlaw and staff to put together a list of County departments and their functions.
Some departments have statutory requirements, some have regulatory requirements.
They will bring the information to the Committee. This exercise has been done. Grant and
contractual requirements are also listed. She wants to put that information in a report
format so the Committee can review and come up with their recommendation. The plan is
to bring the report to the next meeting. Mr. Lounds is concerned about delays.
Mr. Pancoast asked about a special meeting and members that couldn't make it sending
their ideas. Ms. Outlaw said the Committee will have to decide how they want to move
forward with the information. Mr. Lounds thinks they should make lists with the idea that
they are advisory only. Mr. Hensley said they can give advice, but no one has to take it.
Mr. Hensley reminded the members to pick up a copy of the resolution forming the
Committee.
Ms. Outlaw recognized the Property Appraiser, Mr. Pruitt, was in attendance.
Mr. Hensley adjourned the meeting at 8:53 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin
The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, November 18, 2011, at 7:30
a.m., in Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration
Annex.