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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJanuary 20, 2012 Meeting MinutesCITIZENS' BUDGET COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: MEMBERS ABSENT: OTHERS PRESENT: CALL TO ORDER Meeting Date: January 20, 2012 Conference Room 3 John Culverhouse, Chair Ron Knaggs, Vice Chair Dan Kurek Craig Mundt Richard Pancoast Stephanie Morgan Jay L. McBee Dana McSweeney James Clasby Carl Hensley Bill Casey Edward Lounds Jane Bachelor Patricia "Pat" Ferrick Faye Outlaw Marie Gouin Jim David Mark Satterlee Ken Pruitt Laurie Waldie Robert O'Sullivan Jack Southard Stefanie Myers Toby Long Ben DeVries Lee Ann Lowery Beth Ryder Jennifer Hill Don West Frannie Hutchinson H.M. Ridgely Karen Smith Sophia Holt Jerome Adams Bill Hoeffner Brad Currie Kara Wood Audrey Jackson Mr. Hensley called the meeting to order at 7:32 a.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES -November 18t" Meeting Mr. Knaggs made a motion to approve the minutes. Mr. Pancoast seconded. The minutes were unanimously approved. ELECTION CHAIR & VICE CHAIR Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 2012 Page 2 Before Mr. Hensley turned the meeting to Ms. Outlaw for the election, he stated that it had been a privilege to serve as Chair. He felt the respect that was due the Chair was shown. Ms. Outlaw called for nominations. Mr. Pancoast nominated Mr. Culverhouse for Chair. Ms. Morgan seconded the nomination. Mr. Mundt nominated Mr. Knaggs. The members voted. Mr. Culverhouse was elected as the Chair with nine votes. Mr. Knaggs received two. Mr. Culverhouse thanked the members for their votes and Mr. Hensley for his service the last five years. Mr. Culverhouse took nominations for Vice Chair. Mr. Mundt nominated Mr. Knaggs. Mr. Pancoast seconded. Mr. Knaggs was unanimously approved. CHAMBER TASK FORCE UPDATE Mr. Satterlee distributed a Comparison of Code Amendments Proposed in Draft Ordinance No. 12-003 (see attached). He began his PowerPoint presentation, attached, with a brief history. Mr. Brad Currie, the Chair of the Task Force, and members H.M. Ridgely and Mr. Mundt were in attendance. They hope to have a recommendation for.the Board of County Commissioners by May. The goal is to iron out as many differences as possible with the Task Force. Mr. Currie said he was impressed with the staff's ability to work with them. He thinks a lot of effort has been put into the project in a short amount of time. He feels that they can work together to get to a place they will be happy with. Mr. Knaggs complimented Mr. Satterlee on the presentation and asked about the Business Navigator. Mr. Satterlee said because there have been so many positions eliminated, to add a new or change a position would be something to tread lightly on. It has been discussed. They did not feel it needed to be addressed in the ordinance. Mr. Knaggs agreed that it should not be in the ordinance, but wondered if it was delayed because of monetary concerns. Ms. Outlaw explained that a new position being added is not being considered. They are exploring taking an existing position and transferring duties. They have a person in mind. She feels there is a good chance to do a reclassification. Timing was discussed. Mr. Casey asked if it has to be all or none. Ms. Outlaw answered that the duties and time they would take are being considered. Mr. Casey asked about the responsibilities of the Navigator. Mr. Satterlee said it would be the person the applicant goes to when they come in, so they don't get upset with the process. They would work not only with St. Lucie County staff but other agencies. Ms. Outlaw said the overall intent is to have someone on the front-end working with applicants to help them get through the process so it does not become an overwhelming, frustrating experience for them. Delays would be identified and expedited. Mr. Casey feels it is a refreshing approach. The impression some citizens have of employees is they feel these are the rules, I didn't make them and you just have to live by Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 20.12 Page 3 them. They feel the employees are not helpful. Mr. Satterlee works hard in his department to not project that attitude. He asks his staff to put themselves in the customer's place. Mr. Casey thinks it is smart business. If the County gets the reputation of being open for business he feels customers will come here instead of other Counties. Mr. Clasby asked about the Business Navigator compared to Brevard County's e- Government. Mr. Satterlee said he would take a look at it the information. REVIEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATION OPERATIONS Ms. Outlaw began her presentation with an explanation ofwhythe Committee had decided to review each department. The spreadsheet attached has columns added. FY07 is used as the base because that is when staffing levels peaked. FY08 is when the budget peaked. Mr. Knaggs asked if FY07 is actual or budget. It is budget. He asked for actual for FY 11 It is included in the packet. The numbers on the spreadsheet are budget. Mr. Kurek asked if all the positions were filled in FY07. They were. Ms. Outlaw pointed out the amount of cuts and asked for the Committee's direction. Mr. Casey asked about the increase in Criminal Justice. Ms. Outlaw explained that it is part of the County Attorney's operation. It was a new function in FY05 or FY06. She would prefer Mr. McIntyre and Mr. Godwin be in attendance when it is discussed. Mr. Kurek asked if the Parks and Recreation Director will be replaced. It will. Mr. Knaggs, thinking outloud, said the original intent was to look at the County from a different perspective. How do they see needs/wants in the handout? Looking at dollars will not help them determine need. Media and the Research Park are discretionary. They will need to understand the function to determine need. Ms. Outlaw, looking at page 125 and the spreadsheet, said after the second column of the spreadsheet, it tells if the Board is required by State statute or Federal law to have the function. The statute requires the County to have an Administrator, but not an Administration Department. The Committee would need to determine how many other positions are needed. Media Relations is beneficial, but not required by law. The Committee also may determine if the Research and Education Park isessential/nonessential, requirement/nonrequirement or need/want. Mr. Knaggs thinks there should be three categories to start, as a guideline, the minimum number, the maximum number and the middle amount theywould be comfortable with. He would like input from the Committee as to whetherthey should do headcount and how they would determine the nonpersonnel amounts. He does not see how he can make the decision with what he has been provided. Do they need more information? Ms. Outlaw said that since it is a new process, they need to work through how they want it structured. Mr. Hensley asked to what degree they want to micromanage. The folks that run the Departments know what they are doing. You can see in the numbers that they have been severly cut back in the last five years to almost bones. He feels they (the Directors) should Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 2012 Page 4 make the decision. He thinks Mr. Lounds used the terms essential and nonessential. He prefers mandated and discretionary. He's not comfortable examining every detail. Mr. Knaggs said they agreed to do it, the County's shortfall has not changed and wants to know how are they going to do it. He understands that they do not want to micromanage and agrees. Mr. Hensley feels they can make recommendations, but he thinks they are getting into areas that they don't understand. Mr. Knaggs feels they need a scorecard. Mr. Hensley said the report is a scorecard. Mr. Knaggs asked if the Committee accepts the report and has no suggested changes. Do they think it all is essential? Mr. Hensley said his opinion is that it is discretionary. The chart says they are. They could recommend everything discretionary be thrown out, but you can't throw away everything. Mr. Knaggs asked if it was right that we are $3-4 million short of a balanced budget. Ms. Outlaw said the last projection for FY14 is $8 million out of balance which is why the Committee chose to take on the effort and have recommendations as towhat functions should be cut back or eliminated. Mr. Kurek started with the fact that we must have a County Administrator. The intent and plan of the Research Park is to create economic growth by attracting business #o increase the tax base and employees. It would be foolish to do away with something that has the potential to become an asset. Back in the day before media, there were more public record requests. One person used to spend half their time getting information. Since the nation has become more interested in what government is doing, imagine what it would take to provide the information now. With 650 employees, one person could not oversee that many. Since the amount of Directors has been cut in half, there is more supervision pushed upstairs. Their jobs have become more complex, so the need for assistance has increased. He supports the presented program and does not see any room for cuts. Mr. Casey is trying to figure out how to approach the situation. Positions may not be the correct way to look at it. Maybe they should look at ways to trim without cutting services. He wonders if a static camera could film a meeting without a staff person present. He wonders if the budget could be cut without reducing positions. Ms. Outlaw said the conversation underscores the challenge. She agrees that starting from the Full Time Equivalent (FTE) count would not be the way to go. Each function will carry positions. Mr. Casey agrees with Mr. Hensley that they can not make reductions without understanding. Ms. Outlaw knows what is needed. He thinks she has cut to what she believes is bare minimum. We must reduce numbers, but if we cut the entire department, we won't balance the budget. Ms. Outlaw agrees that there is not one area that we could cut and save a million dollars. It will be a host of cuts. It will be tedious and painful. They have cut the big items. We are down to a death by a thousand cuts. We have to find savings and functions that can be reduced or eliminated to get to the FY14 budget gap number. Mr. Casey asked what percentage the $8 million is to the total budget. The total General Fund budget is $133 million. The County's portion is about $45 million. It is about 5% of the total and 20% of the County's part. Mr. Casey asked about the ability to manuveur. Ms. Outlaw said that at the pleasure of the Committee, they could look at all the Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 2012 Page 5 operations. That would include the Constitutionals, State Agencies, Research Park and Economic Development Council. The Committee must decide. Mr. Kurek asked what part of the budget is salaries and benefits. Ms. Hill answered that on the County's side it is just under $24 million. He asked if anyone is getting a raise. He asked if the health plan or any benefits are going to be cut back. Will there be relief from the State retirement plan? If you are looking at the big picture, you need to look at big numbers to begin. Then you look at the total salaries. He asked about the bargaining unit. They are coming to the end of the third year. Raises and benefit changes are where you get numbers. If you have $20 million in salaries and cut all salaries by 1 % you've picked up a bunch of money. They need to see the total to see if they are comfortable with the benefit level and total salary cost. Ms. Outlaw answered that they could have that discussion. If they want to start with that, they could. About 64% of the employees earn $25,000 and under. A lot of dynamics come into play. Mr. Kurek said those are big numbers. He wants to know the plan. Ms. Outlaw said there are no increases planned. Not even cost of living. Mr. Kurek asked about the turnover rate. People are not leaving. Mr. Knaggs summarized that we have to consider investments today for potential gains in the future and unintended consequences. This conversation is not black and white. It is a knife fight of 1,000 cuts. They are going to have to look at the big picture and at minor cuts. He agrees that they cannot micromanage, but they have the charge to look at possibilities and give their opinion. The first thing is to cut personnel costs from nonpersonnel expenses and understand potential impacts. He asked where they are going. He thinks they should use the current department as a guideline. Mr. Mundt thinks they should separate salaries from other expenses. He used Research and Education as an example. Mr. Hensley said most of the talk is-cut, cut, cut, but we need to talk about enhancing. We are down pretty low. He doesn't know if we can cut any more. It could be part of their job to make sure the agencies are doing what they are supposed to. Mr. Knaggs responded that the departments could come in with their budgets and a list of benefits to the County provided by the department, including any revenue generation. They should not be limited to justifying their existance. They should tell why their existance is important to the continuing operation of the County. It might be to offset other cost or investment in the future. Mr. Mundt asked about Mr. Pruitt's forecast for two years out. Ms. Outlaw answered that he will not make predictions. June 1St we will get the preliminary number. Mr. Mundt said he would ,hate to make major cuts in support staff and have a revenue enhancement. He wants to be optimistic, but if we need to find $8 million, we need to get at it. Ms. Outlaw said June 1 St we will get the preliminary number and based on that, we will know if we have stabilized. This year the drop was 4.75%. The numbers we have been using is based on no further drop. If there is a drop, we have to make an adjustment. If there is an increase, we are using the right assumption. Starting this soon will give them time to make an Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 2012 Page 6 adjustment. Mr. Knaggs added that when we have the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR), we will know if last year's budget and actuals generated more. Ms. Outlaw said that right now we are not looking at any cuts for FY13 based on discussion with the Board. There will be no Strategic Planning. Mr. Mundt asked about FY13's budget being balanced. Mr. Knaggs said it is balanced using savings to fill the void. Mr. Hensley said it doesn't mean they can't recommend reductions. If not for fund balance, we would really be in trouble. The fund balance is filling the deficit between this year's actual revenue and projected expenses. Mr. Casey asked if there is a plan of attack. They are discussing the plan. Mr. Knaggs said they decided at the last meeting they were going to take a long term look at down the road when they expect to run out of fund balance. They have been debating how to get to the end point before they get too far in. Mr. Casey asked how many months they have. Ms. Outlaw answered a minimum of a year. Mr. Mundt added that unless they decided some should be cut in FY13 so FY14 would not be so bad. Ms. Outlaw added that based on guidance from the Board, there will be no cuts, no reductions in FY13. There is a very streamlined process planned, with a flat budget. The Board can change that. Mr. Knaggs envisions the Board not having Strategic Planning but will challenge the budget that is presented. Ms. Outlaw agrees. She is not planning to recommend any reductions. But, she would present any justified reduction or increase. Mr. Casey suggested they identify best opportunities in the larger budgets. Then they need to decide how they would approach. In the past, they focused on staffing. He feels they should leave staffing to Ms. Outlaw and focus on the remainder of the budgets. Commissioner Hutchinson added that there is an informal meeting every month in which they are given budget updates. The Board is open to change if needed because of major things happening. She wanted to remind them of the many cuts. Not representing the Board, but personally, since we have cut down to the bone, she asked that they focus on ways to enhance what we have. She gave the example of online permitting. She would find that kind of idea helpful. She believes even the public realizes we are as low as we can go. Several showed up at a meeting to say they do not want programs cut. She asked if programs for the Constitutionals, State Agencies and the Board could be streamlined. If State mandates say they will no longer help, a decision will have to be made if they should be continued. Grants may need to be explored. Mr. Knaggs said for every investment that is suggested, they should bring a budget showing revenue enhancements and opportunites to generate more top line. Any time you cut anything a special interest group will object. But it is still $8 million. Whether we get it through revenue enhancements, streamlining or reductions, that is the charge. Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 2012 Page 7 Commissioner Hutchinson agreed. She had given an idea for another perspective. Mr. Mundt thinks they should pull the salaries out and look at the other. Ms. Outlaw asked them to look at page 125 in the report attached. Administration's budget is $311,000. Broken out, her operating budget is $82,000. That is pretty slim. The budgets are very tight. Personnel costs are the largest part. Mr. Casey asked that they prioritize, in dollar format, what is left after personnel and other related costs are taken out. Ms. Outlaw commented on the spreadsheet. Mr. Knaggs asked for a list of Departments with personnel and nonpersonnel costs ranked in order by nonpersonnel costs so they could see what it looks like. Ms. Outlaw explained that the Sheriff's budget does not come in with that information. Mr. Knaggs would like the information for all she can get with a list of those she cannot. Ms. Outlaw said it would be easy to start with the County operations. Mr. Knaggs thinks the State Agencies are so small that they won't want to spend time on them. Ms. Outlaw said they will bring back that type of information to the next meeting and have a similar type of discussion because she feels it is a revolving process. Mr. Knaggs still wants to get to a total. Mr. Clasby feels they should look at surrounding Counties and see what they are doing. Ms. Outlaw would be happy to do that over time. St. Lucie County tends to get calls wanting to know what we have done because we have done so much. They are always looking for opportunities. Mr. Clasby thinks the eGovernment permitting process might take the place of the Business Navigator. If they planned to put a current employee in that position, does that employee need to be here? It would be a one-time payment to have the position always available. OTHER ISSUES Mr. Casey asked how to incorporate Commissioner Hutchinson's suggestion by only looking at numbers. He asked when they can start talking to department heads. Ms. Knaggs believes they have started with Ms. Outlaw. Ms..Outlaw believes they are a couple meetings away from having the process refined. Mr. Clasby asked if the meeting Commissioner Hutchinson referred to was the Budget Workshop on January 24t". Ms. Outlaw answered that the Board will hear the first quarter update at that meeting. Mr. Knaggs asked for a summary of that meeting at the next Committee meeting. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Knaggs made a motion to adjourn the meeting. It was seconded and Mr. Culverhouse adjourned the meeting at 9:07 a.m. Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin Citizens' Budget Committee January 20, 2012 Page 8 The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, February 17, 2012 at 7:30 a.m., in Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration Annex.