HomeMy WebLinkAboutMarch 16, 2012 Approved Meeting MinutesCITIZENS' BUDGET COMMITTEE
Meeting Date: March 16, 2012
Conference Room 3
MEMBERS PRESENT: John Culverhouse, Chair
Ron Knaggs, Vice Chair
Edward Lounds
Jane Bachelor
Patricia "Pat" Ferrick
Richard Pancoast
Craig Mundt
Carl Hensley
James Clasby
William Donovan
Bill Casey
MEMBERS ABSENT: Dan Kurek
Jay L. McBee
Stephanie Morgan
Dana McSweeney
OTHERS PRESENT: Faye Outlaw Beth Ryder
Marie Gouin Jennifer Hill
Sandi Morando Don West
Mark Satterlee John Ferrick
Laurie Waldie Karen Smith
Robert O'Sullivan Joe Cimino
Garry Wilson Michael Quinn
Toby Long Lee Ann Lowery
Michael Brillhart Heather Young
Diana Wesloski .Susan Jacob
Stefanie Myers Sophia Holt
CALL TO ORDER
Mr. Culverhouse called the meeting to order at 7:36 a.m.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES -February 17t" Meeting
After a motion and second, the minutes were unanimously approved.
SUNSHINE POLICY -ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY, HEATHER YOUNG
Ms. Young handed out a memo and attachment (see attached). ,She explained the three
basics of the Sunshine Policy. The meetings have to be noticed in advance, open to the
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March 16, 2012
Page 2
public and minutes have to be taken. She then defined a meeting. That is when two or
more members have any type of discussion in regard to matters that might come before
the body in the future for action. The members need to avoid discussing issues in person,
by letter or email and avoid responding Reply All to emails. Ms. Young gave her phone
number for any future questions.
Ms. Ferrick asked if minutes must be taken at a special meeting by staff or Committee
member. Ms. Young answered that it doesn't matter who takes the minutes. It normally
would be staff. The meetings don't have to be recorded, but minutes have to be written.
REVIEW OF BOCC WORKSHOP
Fund Balance Update
Ms. Outlaw updated- the Committee on the February 28t" Board Budget Workshop using
the attached PowerPoint presentation. The primary topic was the current status of our
fund balance.
The Legislative session is now closed and there are some things that will impact FY14's
shortfall. The major challenge. for the group is to have a plan for a sustainable budget.
Everyone must work cooperatively. Property values coming back would be the panacea.
Mr. Knaggs asked about the savings achieved in the past year. Shouldn't they be reflected
in future years? Ms, Outlaw answered that it is. Budgets will be trimmed back, where
appropriate, in the budget process. Not the entire amount, because some of the savings
were vacant positions. There will be a modest reduction. Utilities is another example that
will have to be investigated.
Mr. Knaggs said there are a number of recurring things on the schedule. When you gain
knowledge of recurring, you adjust the budget. He did not feel it was done in the
presentation. Ms. Outlaw said he was correct. Some of the $9 million would be recurring
in FY12, 13, 14 and maybe 15. It would accumulate to help in the future. Ms. Outlaw
agreed except for saying all three. years. As an example, the Health Insurance budget
would reflect the amount, but the direction from the Board and the Constitutionals was to
go on a year-by-year basis, based on what is in the health insurance reserve. A jump in
health cost is predicted. Identified recurring savings will be reflected in the budget. Per
State Statute, the ad valorem tax collection must be budgeted at 95%. Typically, you are
going to collect more than that. Mr. Knaggs feels there is no safe way to project it.
Mr. Knaggs asked Ms. Outlaw if she agreed that the savings achieved should become the
actual and be reflected in the upcoming budget, if they were expected to be recurring. She
did agree. That would almost close the gap in FY14. Assuming nothing else changes, it
could even help FY15. Ms. Outlaw said how the voters vote on the amendments in
November will affect FY14.
Mr. Knaggs started to ask how much the property values would need to increase, but
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March 16, 2012
Page 3
decided they lag behind. Ms. Outlaw said that 1 % in property taxes generates about $1
million. June 1St we will know where we will be in property values. Mr. Knaggs said we
keep shoving the gap down the road, which is good. Ms. Outlaw agreed. Mr. Knaggs said
property values would need to go up about 20%, but we can't predict three years in the
future. Mr. Knaggs thinks it may go down next year and then hopefully start going up.
Mr. Pancoast asked about Beau Rivage. Ms. Outlaw said that Mr. Brillhart would address
the issues.. Mr. Pancoast asked about the 3% retirement funding. Ms. Outlaw said the
Judge ruled that it was illegal to take the 3%. Since the employees pay the 3%, it reduces
the County's share by 3%. They will continue to budget that way until the ruling goes
through the appeal process. Mr. Pancoast asked .about the $900 million expansion at FPL.
Ms. Outlaw did not know the value, but it will affect the collection the year after it is added
to the tax role. Mr. Satterlee thinks the project will not be complete until 2013, so the effect
may not be until 2014.
Mr. Hensley said he wouldn't depend on any of it recurring. It is savings for one year. Mr.
Knaggs disagreed. Mr. Lounds said the savings could be put in a cubby hole. Ms. Outlaw
said they were correct. The additional revenue from the tax collection would close the
FY14 projected gap. Mr. Hensley asked if she could guarantee the collection next year.
Ms. Outlaw said she cannot guarantee anything. The point is that they have to budget
95% collection; but through collection or the lien process, they get more. It would probably
be enough to close the FY14 gap. Some of the items will be changed during the budget
process. She does not expect the next budget to be $3.4 million under the current budget.
The current BOCC operating budget is $40 million.
Mr. Casey said Collections is an unfair category to use because you will always collect
more than 95%. You will never have every tax payer pay in November. But you can't
budget for it. But he agreed with Mr. Knaggs, that you will always have a higher number.
Mr. Knaggs said philosophically it is very good news, for a variety of reasons, because it
helps to close the shortfall. His negative side says, but we still have a $21 million shortfall,
it is just another year out. We are hoping things improve during the intervening period. We
have to depend on the tax collection number to fill the shortfall. When he ran a business,
you never drove budget to budget; you drove the current year off last year's actuals and
justified any increases. You cannot attain the comparison if you don't put the $3.4 million
in the budget. He thinks it is a mistake. Ms. Outlaw understands, but is not going to
reduce the budget by $3.4 million. There will be spirited discussions. Because of unfilled
positions and utilities she cannot. She will reduce where she feels it is appropriate. Mr.
Knaggs said she missed his fully justified increase point. Last year's prices should not
drive the current year for gasoline prices. Ms. Outlaw thinks they are saying the same
thing. But Mr. Knaggs expects her to start at $3.4 million dollars lower and justify the
increases. Ms. Outlaw said that even though she does not use the same vernacular her
staff would tell him that it is what she does. They are in agreement.
Mr. Mundt asked if Mr. Brillhart would discuss the potential Medicaid charge from the State
and impact. Ms. Outlaw answered that he would.
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March 16, 2012
Page 4
Mr. Lounds asked if there is any increase in commercial building. Mr. Satterlee reported
that they track all building permit activity each month. They are seeing a steady increase in
the number of building permits. Commercial permits are still lagging somewhat. They
received 81 building permit applications on Wednesday because the building code is
changing.
Ms. Outlaw thought the permits were for repairs, not new structures. Mr. Satterlee said it is
a lot of that. They are seeing more single family houses. Mr. Lounds is more interested in
the commercial end. He feels that as the commercial goes, so goes the economy. We
play catch up with the housing values. Mr. Satterlee feels it is good to see activity and Mr.
Lounds agreed that all activity increase is good. Mr. Lounds asked about the City's
commercial activity. Mr. Satterlee had not heard that there had been an increase.
Ms. Outlaw summed up that the picture is better, but we are not yet out of the woods. Most
of the comments had been on point. Next, would be to hear about the items from the 2012
Legislative- Session. They will continue to monitor and update the Committee and the
Board. The budget is balanced for FY14, but we have to look out for FY15 or FY16.
Constitutional Amendments
Michael Brillhart passed out and put the attached spreadsheet, 2012 State Legislative
Issues of Fiscal Importance to County on the screen. Most of the legislation had not been
signed by the Governor. They looked at projected fiscal impact. Other items could have
regulatory or operational impacts, but for the most part, the spreadsheet shows the fiscal
issues. The issues that deal with Constitutional Amendments will be on the November 6,
2012 ballot. They would require 60% voter approval to be implemented. They all have a
January, 2013 implementation date.
Mr. Casey clarified that any impact would be only on future income. Ms. Outlaw agreed
that we wouldn't lose anything, we just wouldn't gain.
Mr. Casey asked if the Beau Rivage number was only income or income less expenses.
Mr. Brillhart answered it was only income. It does not include drainage, right-of-way
maintenance issues or other operating expense. Ms. Outlaw said the challenge is that the
County does not have a separate budget for Beau Rivage. It has not been an area where
millions of dollars were spent on an annual basis. The money collected goes into areas
outside of road improvement, so it will have an impact.
Mr. Brillhart asked the members to change the number on the County Medicaid
Contribution to $5,145,053. Ms. Ryder would be able to address any questions. There is a
tremendous amount of backlog in the State's system for Medicaid billing. The State is
trying to make the 67 Counties pick up the backlog dating back to 2001. They have
examined the backlog & redirected funds to the Counties by their formula. The projected
impact to our County would be $5.1 million for FY13. We have $1.4 million budgeted this
year for medical services and nursing homes. It would be a big change. Mr. Brillhart also
mentioned a revenue decrease. The hopes are that the Governor vetoes the bill and we
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March 16, 2012
Page 5
are billed a number more consistent with the current year. Ms. Outlaw explained the
revenue decrease. The portion that we owe comes out of our'/2 Cent Sales Tax revenue
and Revenue Sharing money. Ms. Hill added that they are proposing to withhold the
portion that is owed from the. State Revenue Sharing money. Going forward they are
proposing to withhold our portion from the % Cent Sales Tax money. Ms. Outlaw said that
would be even more impactual. It could potentially affect the money we use for debt
service payment. Ms. Gouin explained that the collection for the'/2 cent sales tax is about
$6 million. We pay debt service on $5 million of that. State Revenue Sharing is about $3
million. There is $900,000 of debt service payment. Ms. Outlaw said there was a real
impact there. Ms. Hill added that there is some language in the bills saying the State would
make sure there was enough money to cover debt service obligations. They have not fully
analyzed the implications.
Ms. Ryder emphasized that it is an estimate based on the backlog from 2001. The number
is going to go up. They do not have January -April, 2012 in the number. It is substantial.
The one saving grace is that $1.8 million is protected according to a chart provided by the
State. Ms. Ryder wishes someone in the room had the Governor's ear. She has been
processing the invoices for many years and we only authorize payment on invoices where
the State supplies a valid address, so they can prove it is a St. Lucie County resident. The
billings have been inaccurate through the years. They cannot go back to 2001 and justify.
She has served on State-wide committees. They delete any billing that they cannot prove
is a St. Lucie County resident. Ms. Ryder's job is to pay for St. Lucie County residents and
the responsibility of other Counties to pay for theirs. The State has decided to reverse the
situation. They would withhold the money until we provide documentation and ask for a
refund. Ms. Outlaw said they shifted the burden of proof. Ms. Ryder feels it should be
brought to the Governor's attention. She heard in open session that the Counties only pay
what they had budgeted. That is not the case for St. Lucie County. We authorized what
was accurate. It is a legal expense of Ms. Ryder's department. She thinks there is some
misinformation going up the ladder. Florida Association of Counties put out a good letterto
the Governor, laying it all out, and they are hopeful that he will veto the bill.
Ms. Hill said the last estimate of the backlog was over $15 million for St. Lucie County.
The way they are collecting it is by withholding up to 50% of our State Revenue Sharing,
which is in the ballpark of $1.5 million. The impact over time would be $15 million. The
spreadsheet shows the one year impact. The second phase is going forward. Shifting the
burden of proof is changing the numbers from the ballpark of $1.4 million each year to
approximately $3.6 million.
Ms. Ryder added that another wrinkle is if we don't appeal it, we get a 15% discount. If
they do appeal, it is a risk that they would not accept the documentation and 100% would
have to be paid. Ms. Outlaw said there is an incentive if you don't appeal. Stefanie Myers
is the person in charge of this function.
Ms. Petrick asked about correcting the Medicaid number.
Ms. Myers informed the Committee that the State has had four different computer systems
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March 16, 2012
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since 2001. The average error rate in FY 11 was 68%, based on our ability to verify the
addresses. Another County had 73% error rate. Instead of proving the invoice is for a
resident, Stefanie's group now has to prove a negative, which means they have to figure
out which County the patient does reside in. It is very time consuming. She thinks it is
worth it to be responsible with the taxpayers' money.
Mr. Casey asked the chance of the nursing homes or assistant living facilities are
overcharging.. Ms. Myers answered that with the nursing homes we pay $55. It is a set
rate. Mr. Casey asked if they paid $55 for someone who was not there. Ms. Myers gave
illustrations. Sometimes patients put the address of someone they are visiting when they
live out of state. Often times they put the nursing home address as prior address. The
State then sends the invoice to St. Lucie County. The State says they are going to fix the
system and be able to make corrections within 10-15 days. DCF does not verify
addresses. Mr. Donovan asked if they have a Medicaid card with the address. Ms. Myers
answered that there is no address, just a number. They send a notice once a year for
renewal, if the notice is not returned, they assume the address is correct. Most people that
get married do not report it to Medicaid. It may change the level of income and make them
ineligible.
Mr. Lounds asked about the 68% not being residents. Ms. Myers said they cannot verify
the 68% being residents. She gets bills in error, they say other locations. The State is not
making those corrections. Mr. Lounds asked about the expense to get what they need to
track this. Ms. Myers is diverting staff and Ms. Outlaw has approved Manpower staff to
help. The deadline for the first backlog is September 1. Information Technology is helping
with software. It is a statewide effort. Ms. Outlaw added that there is a cost to the County.
She confirmed that if they did not challenge the 68% in error they would receive a 15%
discount on the hit. By challenging, we are subject to 100% but are able to go through the
process of proving they are not St. Lucie County residents. But it impacts staff time to
prove. Ms. Myers explained that they have people searching the Clerk of Court records in
other Counties to verify. It is time consuming. Mr. Donovan asked about driver's license to
verify. Ms. Myers said people don't always update their addresses. Mr. Donovan said he
has to show his card and driver's license. They agreed that it doesn't make sense.
Mr. Brillhart continued with Communications Services Tax and explained the qualifications
for the Additional Homestead Tax Exemptions for Seniors. Tangible Personal Property
would have the same expected impact for three years and then go up. They do not expect
much impact from the exemption for surviving spouse of military veteran or first responder.
If all items on the list were signed by the Governor and the three Constitutional
amendments were passed, it could have a minimum. impact of $4.45 million beginning in
FY14. Ms. Outlaw asked if the requirement for the amendments to pass was 60%. Mr.
Brillhart answered that it is.
Ms. Bachelor asked about a dollar amount for the first Additional Homestead Tax
Exemption. Mr. Brillhart said the Property Appraiser (PA) told him that if it passes they will
get a program that would identify the criteria based on applications. The homeownerwould
have to apply. The PA's office would have to calculate by Parcel ID. They do not think it
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March 16, 2012
Page 7
would be a tremendous amount, but they don't know. Ms. Hill added that the Board would
have to adopt an ordinance and we should have the numbers before they made a decision.
Mr. Brillhart handed out two pages on 2011 amendments (see attached) and explained the
military exemption procedure and Homestead/Non-Homestead Property item.
Ms. Outlaw summarized that when the economy turns, our values and tax revenue would
be changed. It would almost be impossible that the run up that we saw before could
happen again. Mr. Brillhart said that value added commodity would be almost eliminated.
Ms. Outlaw agreed.
Ms. Outlaw said voter approval rate is normally high to ballot questions that relate to tax
exemptions. Mr. Culverhouse agreed that especially when it saves the taxpayers money.
Mr. Culverhouse asked if there was anything the committee could do. Ms. Outlaw
answered that Ms. Ryder's suggestion was to contact the Governor or individuals active in
the State circuit. The Board has sent letters.
Mr. Culverhouse thanked Mr. Brillhart, Ms. Outlaw and staff. He suggested they have the
Housing and Community Services presentation the next month. Mr. Lounds thinks they
should have Ms. Ryder come back and explain her Department's responsibilities and how
they do it. Ms. Ryder was invited to return. Ms. Outlaw suggested Ms. Ryder zero in on
which part is responsible for the Medicaid billing. Ms. Ryder thanked Mr. Lounds for his
kind words. There were compliments for Ms. Ryder and her staff. Mr. Lounds asked her to
also explain Community Transit and Veterans Services.
Mr. Knaggs asked to do a review of four things that impact the Committee from the
Informal and Budget meetings. One is timely, Draft Ordinance 12-003. Itwas presented to
Planning and Zoning the night before. Mr. Satterlee presented it to the Board earlier. Mr.
Knaggs thought someone, maybe the Chair; should speak in Public Comment before the
Board votes. Mr. Satterlee gave the history and future schedule. It will require two Public
Hearings before the Board. They hope to schedule the first one for May 1. Mr. Knaggs
said Mr. Satterlee's presentation to the Board was the same as he presented to the
Committee. The Committee approved it and Mr. Knaggs feels they need to voice their
support. Mr. Culverhouse said he would be there. Mr. Satterlee feels it would be important
for the Planning Board to know that it was not a staff generated .issue. It came out of the
community.
It was decided that Mr. Knaggs would present reviews from the Board's Budget Workshops
at the next meeting.
Ms. Ryder announced that next Thursday, March 22nd, the Ribbon Cutting would be held
for the Hurston Branch Library expansion. The Friends of the Library are providing the
funding for at least two years for the Children's Librarian. Ms. Outlaw added that their
contribution is what drove the Board to keep that library open and going forward with the
expansion. Ms. Jacob added the opening would be at 11:00 a.m. The expansion almost
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March 16, 2012
Page 8
doubled the square footage. It is the first library construction in almost 10 years. She
welcomed the members and said it was incredible.
ADJOURNMENT
After a motion and second to adjourn the meeting, Mr. Culverhouse adjourned the meeting
at 9:15 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by: Brenda Marlin
The next CBC regular meeting will be held on Friday, April 20, 2012 at 7:30 a.m., in
Conference Room #3, at the St. Lucie County Roger Poitras Administration Annex.