HomeMy WebLinkAboutMarch 19, 2014MINUTES OF THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY
Board of Examiners of Contractors Meeting
Held in Commission Chambers
County Administration Building
2300 Virginia Avenue, Fort Pierce, FL
March 19, 2014
PRESENT
Chairman ............................................................................................ Doug Davis
.................................................................................................... Charles James
..................................................................................................... Michael DiFrancesco
...................................................................................................... John Langel
...................................................................................................... Sean Mitchell
..................................................................................................... Captain Derek Foxx
..................................................................................................... Roger L. Hudspeth, II
ABSENT
.....:::: ....:::: ......::::.....:::: ....:::::....:::::....::::: ...::::::....:::::.....::.. Craig Dunkelberger
..................................................................................................... Fred Rohrbough
..................................................................................................... Haydn K. Curtis
STAFF PRESENT
Assistant County Attorney ...................................................................... Katherine Barberi
Building & Code Compliance Manager ....................................................... Monica Graziani
Contractor Licensing Investigator .............................. ................................ Monica Vargas Barrios
Building Official .................................................................................. Car] Peterson
Board Recorder .................................................................................... Debbie Isenhour
A. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 9:03 a.m.
B. ROLL CALL OF BOARD MEMBERS
The roll was called. Board members Craig Dunkelberger, Fred Rohrbough and Hadyn K. Curtis were excused.
C. APPROVAL OF MINUTES -January 15, 2014 Contractor Examining Licensing Board:
Motion was made by Mr. Langel to approve the Minutes of the January 15, 2014 meeting.
Captain Foxx seconded and the motion carried unanimously.
D. SWEARING IN OF STAFF
The following staff members were sworn in by: Monica Graziani, Carl Peterso n, and Monica Vargas Barrios.
E. PUBLIC COMMENT:
Chairman Davis asked audience if anyone present .wanted to speak to the B oard under public comment. There
being none the Board moved on to Applications to be approved.
F. APPLICATIONS TO BE APPROVED BY CONSENT VOTE:
Motion was made by Mr. Langel to approve the applicants recommended by Consent vote.
Mr. James seconded and the motion carried unanimously. --
The names were read into the record:
Qualifier Business Name Type of Contractor
Jon E. Puterbaugh Journeyman Electrician
Ronald L. Perkins Master Electrical Non-Contractor
Michael S. Nguyen Journeyman Electrician
Augustus Grant Master Electrical Non-Contractor
Larry S. Weeks Journeyman Electrician
Kenneth V. Salyers Salyers Painting LLC Painting Contractor
Richard A. Fournier County Line Electrical and A/V LLC Master Electrical Contractor
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Wayne B. Zimmerman Comfort Control Services Inc.
Robert M. Thompson FL Coast Wallpaper LLC
APPLICATIONS RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL BY RECIPROCITY:
Motion was made by Mr. Mitchell to approve the applicants.
Mr. Hudspeth seconded and the motion carried unanimously.
The names were read into the record:
Qualifier Business Name
Gayle L. Frieson Gayle Miller Painting Inc.
Master Electrical Contractor
Painting Contractor
Type of Contractor
Painting Contractor
APPLICATIONS APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY BASED ON RECIPROCITY FROM THE CITY OF PORT
ST. LUCIE OR THE CITY OF FORT PIERCE:
The applicant's names were read into the record.
Qualifier
Robert Lee Cook
Cristobal D. Picado
Philip Hale
Bryan R. Tucker
Harry Schmidt Jr.
Frank H. Chase
Dolores E. Reyes
Allen P. Czaplicki
Business Name
Coral Concrete Inc.
Coast Tile & Marble Corp.
All-Ways Wet Irrigation Inc.
Tucker Electric Inc.
H & S Drywall Inc.
Chase Home Repairs & Improvements LLC
PD Painting Inc.
Pioneer Protective Coatings LLC
Type of Contractor
Concrete Contractor
Tile and Marble Contractor
Irrigation Sprinkler Contractor
Electrical Contactor
Drywall Contractor
Painting Contractor
Painting Contractor
Painting Contractor
Stephen Yetzer RV Construction & Remodeling Inc. Residential Contractor
THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS ARE RECOMMENDED FOR REVIEW BY THE BOARD:
Qualifier Business Name Type of Contractor.
Donald W. Watkins III DNA Cabinets Inc. Finish Carpentry Contractor
Chairman Davis addressed staff to present the review applicant to the Board.
Officer Vargas Barrios addressed the Board and stated in your folders you have some pages that refer to this
review applicant and there is also a letters and description from Broward County on their cabinetry certificate.
She further stated Mr. Watkins III is coming before the board under Review as he does not meet the requirements
to obtain a Finish Carpentry Certificate of Competency in St. Lucie County. She stated that Mr. Watkins has
submitted an application that is missing the letter of recommendation from a contractor verifying the three (3)
years of field experience that is required per Ordinances 92-04 and 13-022. She stated he is also submitting a
Letter of Reciprocity from Broward County were is shows he took the Business and Law examination and passed
it with an 84.0%, it also shows he took a Cabinetry examination and passed it with a 74.0%, unfortunately St.
Lucie County does not have a Cabinetry category, therefore the Cabinetry examination is not sufficient to
reciprocate to St. Lucie County as a Finish Carpentry License without the Letter of Recommendation from a
contractor staff is not able to sponsor Mr. Watkins for the Finish Carpentry examination. She stated Mr. Watkins
is here to address the Board.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any questions of staff.
Chairman Davis stated he did not catch everything that was said, but with what Mr. Watkins has from Broward
County it is a Cabinetry only license he carries in Broward.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Davis stated we kind of follow the State in the way of a footprint in licenses and tests that we expect
right, and the State does not have Cabinetry as one of their expectations.
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Officer Vargas Barrios answered not the State, this is a County license and we only have a Carpentry and Finish
Carpentry license. She stated her understanding is that Broward County has not only Finish Carpentry,
Carpentry, but also a Cabinetry license and they have other categories that we do not have. She stated that Mr.
Watkins is trying to get a Finish Carpentry license with us and for us to sponsor him he is missing that additional
letter of recommendation from a contractor to verify the experience.
Chairman Davis asked staff if Mr. Watkins wants to take the test locally for Finish Carpentry.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered that is correct; staff would need him to take the Finish Carpentry test.
Chairman Davis stated so the only issue is the issue of experience letters to prove.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered that is correct; he is missing that one letter to verify his experience.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any other questions.
Mr. Hudspeth stated there is a letter of recommendation here from The Home Depot is that the same thing.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered he has submitted three letters of recommendation, but unfortunately one of
them is not from a contractor, which is what is required to verify his experience and Mr. Watkins will explain in
more detail the reason for that.
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff who is the Masco Cabinetry.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered that they do not have a contractor's license, that she believes it is just a
manufacturing company.
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff what about the person he worked for at the remodeling company are they local here.
Mr. Mitchell stated that is his name.
Mr. Hudspeth stated it says he worked for someone here locally from 2005 to 2012.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered her understanding is that Mr. Watkins used to work for his father and his father
has passed and he is the one that held the license.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any questions of staff.
Chairman Davis asked Mr. Donald Watkins III to come forward to the podium and be sworn in.
Mr. Watkins was sworn in by the Board's recording secretary.
Chairman Davis addressed Mr. Watkins and stated you have heard the concern of staff and if you could address
that and tell us how you may be able to satisfy the requirements by way of a letter of recommendation.
Mr. Watkins answered my father would have been the best one, but he passed away and cannot sign off on my
experience. He stated he is third generation doing this and unfortunately he went to corporations after he stopped
working for his father and none of them can find the actual qualifier to be able to sign off on him. He stated
Masco is one of the largest that they do all the new construction for and Home Depot obviously they are very big
but they cannot find the contractor that qualified them and once I left them they got bought out by Home Depot it
used to be a different company and that company does not exist to find the qualifier to sign the- letter forme.
Chairman Davis stated you mentioned Masco.
Mr. Watkins answered Masco owned a bunch of different cabinet companies; they owned Gale Interiors and tons
of different companies that do different things.
Chairman Davis stated they have to have a qualifier in the group.
Mr. Watkins stated I know they do, but I have asked every single boss and the general manager for Florida and
they do not know who.
Chairman Davis asked Mr. Watkins if when he worked for Masco if it was in Broward County.
Mr. Watkins answered it was everywhere from Homestead to Palm Bay.
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Chairman Davis stated you probably got your marching orders from a specific home-site.
Mr. Watkins stated from Orlando.
Chairman Davis asked Mr. Watkins if he had approached them Orlando.
Mr. Watkins answered in the affirmative. He stated he still contracts for them and they layed them all off and went
to contracting. He stated he contracts for them down south, but they want him to move north.
Chairman Davis asked Mr. Watkins was there a third corporation that you have worked for besides Home Depot,
and Masco that you have mentioned.
Mr. Watkins asked do you mean besides my father.
Chairman Davis answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Watkins answered in the negative that he worked for Home Depot for six (6) or seven (7) years, and he
worked for Masco for two (2} years, before thaf he was working for his father
Chairman Davis asked Mr. Watkins if that particular business is no longer operating and did the business pass
away when his father passed away.
Mr. Watkins answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Hudspeth asked for clarification, if Mr. Watkins is just asking the Board to take the exam or is he asking to
become a contractor.
Chairman Davis answered he is asking to take the test from what he understands.
Mr. Watkins stated the test he took in Broward but they classify it as Cabinetry because that the license he has,
but the test I took was for Carpentry.
Chairman Davis asked staff if we have reciprocity with Broward.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered that we do, but it is just the category, the Cabinetry part.
Mr. Watkins stated because Broward classifies it as Cabinetry, he further stated he is fine with taking the
Carpentry test again he passed it before he is sure he can pass it again.
Chairman Davis stated of course the sticking point is the letter and he is just floored that you cannot find someone
who does that much work in the State of Florida that will respond with a letter. He stated he would be curious to
have staff contact them and ask them if they have a qualifier or you guys out here working without a qualifier. He
stated tell them we are getting a report from an applicant that would love to take the test, but we are considering
to deny him because we cannot get a letter from your qualifier stating he has worked for you and put them on the
hot seat.
Mr. Watkins stated he is sure they have a qualifier that qualifies them everywhere, they are nationwide.
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff who is the qualifier was for Home Depot in St. Lucie County.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered that Home Depot has different qualifiers, they have General Contractors,
Residential and different kinds. She stated our problem is that the letter is coming from a Diana Oliva.
Mr. Hudspeth stated maybe one of the GC's he subbed under at Home Depot could help.
Mr. Watkins stated that US Remodeling was the company doing business for Home Depot is no longer in
business they got bought out by Home Depot two years ago so that company does not exist anymore so he
technically did not work under the people that qualify them now.
Mr. Mitchell stated before this company went out of business you had to have somebody you answered to or who
called you and said I want you to go here tomorrow. He asked those people are not around anymore, you cannot
reach out to them
Mr. Watkins stated that is who Diana is, she is the person I answered to, she is the install manager.
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Mr. Mitchell said I understand that, I am saying is this company US Remodeling, there is no one you can reach
out to at US Remodeling or she can reach out to and say listen this guy is in a hot spot here, he has the
qualifications, all he needs is a letter stating he worked for you for over two (2) years, you cannot get that.
Mr. Watkins answered we tried, trust me we tried.
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff what their recommendation is on this.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered we have to go by the ordinance, without that letter we cannot sponsor him.
Mr. Hudspeth asked if anyone from our staff has reached out to Home Depot and asked if there is anything they
can do to help out this gentleman, obviously he has worked for them.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered no I have not called Home Depot.
Mr. Hudspeth said maybe that would be the next step to help us, because we have a code we have to live by, we
have to go by the letter of the law, and obviously we are missing the loop here somehow. He stated he does not
know how people are getting avvay v/ith not having a qualifier o~ general contractor who is licensed to do their
work but unfortunately maybe if we could help him. He stated I think the gentleman is one hundred and fifty
percent qualified to do the work and obviously has been doing qualify work or he would not have been doing the
work for that company for that long a period of time. He stated we have a code and ordinance to live by, so if staff
can do anything to reach out to Home Depot, first of all how they are doing business legally in St. Lucie County
and second how can we help this gentleman come back to us so we can help him get his contractor's license that
would be his recommendation.
Mr. Watkins stated the thing with Home Depot is it does not exist anymore.
Chairman Davis stated it would be more of an issue with Masco than Home Depot.
Mr. Watkins stated Masco still exists.
Chairman Davis stated the question would be do we want to burden staff with is to help applicants through the
process, maybe we do on a case by case basis, maybe we do not, that is a question as Chairman that I would like
to throw out.
Mr. Hudspeth stated obviously we are understaffed as it is, so that is a burden, I am just speaking about this
gentleman individually. He stated he does not know how Home Depot can get away with subcontracting work
through a general contractor that is no longer licensed in St. Lucie County or does not exist and that is a question
that he is requesting staff to attend to. He stated our hands are tied according to the ordinance.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any further questions of Mr. Watkins.
Mr. Difrancesco asked Mr. Watkins how long he has had his Cabinetry license.
Mr. Watkins asked in Broward.
Mr. Difrancesco answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Watkins answered for one (1) year.
Mr. Difrancesco asked Mr. Watkins how long his father was licensed and what was his license.
Mr. Watkins answered his fathers' was for Finish Carpentry and back then he passed with a high enough score
that he was State Certified. He further stated his fathers' license was from 1996 to 2005 or 2006.
Mr. Hudspeth said not to be inconsiderate, but when did your father pass.
Mr. Watkins answered two years ago or a year and a half.
Mr. Hudspeth stated I am sorry to hear that, I wish somehow in between we could have gotten you licensed.
Chairman Davis stated maybe Mr. Difrancesco had a good line of questioning and that is possibly there is an
opportunity to prove your employment in your fathers' business during those years prior to his passing. He stated
and if you can show that would just be a matter like Mr. Mitchell said of like a W-2 or something to show that yes
this individual was employed under his fathers' auspice for a period of time and came up in the trade and has the
experience. He stated maybe we cannot hear from him because he is gone, but records would show and prove
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that you Donald had worked in that line of trade under that employ and maybe the W-2 from your taxes or
something else just to show staff that period of time that you did work to satisfy staff.
Mr. Watkins stated that he could try and get records; he could ask the IRS to send them to him.
Mr. Mitchell stated I keep my records for at least seven (7) years.
Mr. Hudspeth stated by law and he would highly recommend you keep them for seven (7) to ten (10) years in the
future.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any other thoughts on this. He stated as a Board we can say yes,
you can come in without this letter, although that is not what we have dictated that we require, we can bypass
that, but he does not like starting that as a president because that is a standard the Board has set, and he does
not like to forfeit that to one, as then that would mean we would have to forfeit it for all and he would rather not do
that. He stated he is just trying to build blocks here to give the Board thoughts on how we can get past this
particular scenario.
Mr. Difrancesco stated at least Mr. Watkins did go take a test, although it was not the proper test, his scores are
pretty good, and he does have two letters of recommendation. He further stated that he would have been in the
same spot as Mr. Watkins is had his father died, because he worked for his father all his life, how would he prove
it, so he would be in the same predicament Mr. Watkins is. He stated I know we do not want to set a precedent,
but it is on a case by case basis review, that is all he has to say.
Mr. James stated that he agrees to an extent with Mr. Difrancesco, but we just had a case at our last meeting that
we denied because of no letters, so he is afraid if the Board approves this one and the other individual heard
about it he would be right before this Board again with his attorney. He stated he likes the suggestion about the
W-2, that if Mr. Watkins could produce W-2's from his father.
Mr. Watkins stated he knows it would not be a W'2's.
Mr. James said your father did not actually pay you in other words.
Mr. Watkins stated he might be able to find one or two 1099's from him.
Mr. James stated that is the same as a W-2 roughly, it would prove that you worked for him.
Mr. Hudspeth made a motion that we continue this to the next meeting for Mr. Watkins to come up with
further documentation, at that point if he can prove that he has experience, knowledge and possibly
another letter then we would be more that glad to accept him to take the test.
Mr. Difrancesco seconded the motion.
Chairman Davis stated we have a motion and a second; it is open for discussion then. He stated his only
comment would be that we meet every other month now, so if Mr. Watkins was able to do this quickly I would hate
to have him have to wait for two months, it would like to leave it if we approve this motion to leave to staff to
automatically to accept him in for testing upon receipt of any proof and certification of having worked/employed in
his fathers' business or if Masco coughed something up or whoever else.
Mr. Hudspeth amended the motion to approve the applicant to be sponsored by staff to take the Finish
Carpentry exam if he provides proof of experience of working for his father or another contractor without
having to come back before the Board for approval to take the exam.
Mr. Difrancesco seconded the amended motion.
Mr. Mitchell stated for his clarification the board motioned for: 1) if the applicant provides W-2's from when he
worked for his dad or 2) something from another contractor showing proof of experience provided to staff, staff
then could sponsor for the exam upon receipt without having to come back to the board for approval to take the
exam.
Mr. James stated he would still come back before the Board for approval of his license.
Chairman Davis stated in the affirmative, after he took the test. He asked the Board if there was any other
discussion, we have a motion and a second.
The motion carried unanimously.
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Chairman Davis stated to Mr. Watkins so there is still an obstacle for you, but the Board has given you a way to
get past it, and we are hopeful that you are able to do that and we thank you for coming in this morning.
Mr. James stated that he would like to add something and said any carpenters that he has known that can build
cabinets are definitely finish carpenters.
G. CITATION APPEAL: Chase Home Repairs and Improvements LLC
Chairman Davis asked staff to present the Citation Appeal for Chase Home Repairs and Improvements LLC.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated on February 26, 2014 staff received a complaint that there was some painting going
on at 3209 River Rd. and the person that was doing the work was not licensed in St. Lucie County. She stated
she went to the property and Mr. Frank Chase with Chase Home Repairs and Improvements LLC was there
preparing to paint the home, she checked the name of his company in our system and confirmed that he did not
have a painting license in St. Lucie County. She issued a stop work order and issued a $500.00 citation, she
asked Mr. Chase if he was licensed anywhere else and he explained he had a City of Port St. Lucie license, she
explained the Reciprocity Application, she told him to secure the property and to come by the office to get the
application he would need to submit to obtain a painting license. She stated she also explained the procedure for
the citation. She stated on February 28, 2014 Mr. Frank Chase came in and submitted the application to obtain
the painting license; he also submitted a letter requesting an administrative hearing to appeal the citation. She
stated since Mr. Frank Chase has an active painting license in the City of Port St. Lucie, and after providing all the
documents required staff was able to issue the painting license on March 3, 2014. She stated on March 7, 2014
staff sent a letter to Mr. Chase confirming the administrative hearing he requested, staff feels the citation was
given correctly as at the time the citation was given the contractor was not licensed in St. Lucie County.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if there were any questions of staff and stated he thinks it was pretty clear that it
was painting that was occurring at this particular address County location. He stated to Officer Vargas Barrios
that he was sure she looked up and found that Mr. Chase was licensed in the City of Port St. Lucie which is
outside the bounds of this jurisdiction.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Davis stated if there are no further questions of staff and if Mr. Frank Chase is present and would like to
speak to the Board, now would be the time to come forward to the podium and be sworn in by the Board's
recording secretary.
Mr. Chase was sworn in by the Board's recording secretary.
Mr. Chase addressed the Board and stated he just wanted to appeal this and apologized for overstepping his
bounds and stated he does have a handyman license for St. Lucie County and he kind of thought that was going
to cover him. He stated that is about all he has to say on the appeal and since times got tough he was excited to
get a job and he kind of rushed in to it. He stated when he received the citation from Officer Vargas Barrios he
immediately stopped and went and got all his paperwork and passed it in and within a day or two it was approved.
Chairman Davis asked if there were any questions of Mr. Chase.
Mr. Hudspeth stated his only question is when he was licensed in St. Lucie County did they explain to you or give
you the understanding that it was only within their city limits and that outside the city limits his license was not
recognized.
Mr. Chase stated they probably did a long time ago and stated it is his fault he overstepped and apologized again.
Mr. Mitchell asked staff where 3209 River Rd. is at.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered it is in Ft. Pierce, she thinks off Edwards Rd.
Chairman Davis stated he had a couple of questions and said he was just looking, but did not see a handyman's
license which would tell us the scope of what is allowed and asked staff so we do not have such a thing.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered Contractor Licensing does not provide a repairman or handyman license.
Mr. Hudspeth asked but the City of Port St. Lucie does.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered that she does not know that she believes what he has is a Business Tax Receipt
to be able to do some maintenance or repairs.
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Chairman Davis asked Mr. Chase if he could clarify that for him and stated you said you had a handyman license
and I assumed you meant in the County.
Mr. Chase answered in the St. Lucie County yes he has had a handyman license for about five or six years now.
Chairman Davis said we do not have such a license which is what he was just asking staff, we do not have such a
thing.
Mr. Chase stated can I show you the license.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated I think what he is referring to the occupational license which is a business tax.
Chairman Davis stated so there is a category for occupational license that does not necessarily require a testing
or certification.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated that is correct, we do not have that in Contractor Licensing.
Chairman Davis stated so he is allowed to do a variety of things under a handyman's occupational license and we
would not have a record of what that scope allows.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered no it is very minor details and she does not have that with her. She stated he
cannot paint, do drywall or any the work because obviously that is the categories we do have.
Chairman Davis stated he would be curious to know whatever jurisdiction that is the occupational license office
would be able to provide to the Board maybe the handyman and anything else they issue occupational licenses
for that we do not have certifications for. He stated it would be curious to know because evidently it must be
extremely limited.
Mr. James stated he would like to see the license Mr. Chase has.
Chairman Davis addressed Mr. Chase and stated if you would go ahead and show that license to staff I would
appreciate it. He stated to Mr. Chase are you aware since you are the holder of the license what personally your
limitations are.
Mr. Chase answered that he knows he can do things like change fans, change switches, do handyman stuff he
just cannot contract out, that was his instructions and said he can do painting, like paint a wall, but this is a whole
house and other little things like taking things apart.
Chairman Davis informed Mr. Chase that he thinks it would be good if he checks as he has informed staff to for
the Board to check his limitations of a repair service category which is what the name of your business Repairs
and Improvements is called so you understand what the limitations are so you do not overstep that.
Mr. Chase answered all right.
Mr. Mitchell asked staff but he does now have a painting contractor's license.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered yes he was on the agenda this morning.
Chairman Davis stated so in advance of getting anything from staff as to what the handyman license allows do we
want to make any decisions today, does the Board have a feel for their opinion on this citation that has issued by
the County against him.
Mr. Lange) made a motion to reduce the fine to $100.00. I think he overstepped his boundaries but once
he realized he did, he immediately took care of it and got properly licensed so I think we should reduce it
to $100.00.
Mr. Mitchell seconded and the motion.
Chairman Davis stated he thinks that is somewhat fair, it shows that you overstepped your boundary and we did
not dismiss it, but yet we appreciate you stepping up and coming to the Board meeting this morning, going and
immediately getting your painting license, and on and on. He stated he thinks those were all good steps to have
made to prove to the Board that you want to satisfy staff and the County and we appreciate your efforts.
Officer Vargas Barrios asked Chairman Davis if the Board give a time frame like thirty days or seven days for Mr.
Chase to pay the violation.
Mr. Chase stated he would pay the fine today
Chairman Davis stated he thinks that helps the vote, we have a motion and a second, all in favor say aye, any
opposed.
The motion carried unanimously.
H. OLD BUSINESS: Contractor Licensing Board Members term of office document update.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated at our last meeting we had the timeframe of how long a board members were here
and there was a discussion on the Electrical and the Plumbing and stated she has not been able to obtain that
information as a lot of things have been boxed up or are in archives. She stated so she is working on obtaining
that but does not have it with her at this meeting and stated she should have by the next meeting.
Chairman Davis stated we appreciate you working on that, I know it was something our historian here brought up.
I. NEW BUSINESS:
1. Modifying the State Certified Contractor renewal fee.
Chairman Davis stated our first item is modifying the State Certified Contractor renewal fee
Officer Vargas Barrios stated the State Certified Contractor who register their license with St. Lucie County we
send them a renewal every year for $25.00 to renew their certification every year, as you know the State License
renewals are every two years, so what staff wants to do is put them together and send the renewals every two
years to coincide with the State Certification, that way the expiration date and renewals go out at the same time
that the State sends renewals. She stated the fee will not change it is $25.00 every year so we would like to do it
every two years for $50.00 but it is not an increase.
Mr. Hudspeth stated it makes perfect sense to me.
Chairman Davis stated is saves us a little on mailing.
Mr. Hudspeth made a motion to approve change the renewal fee for State Certified Contractors to every
two years to coincide with the state two year renewal.
Mr. Langel seconded and the motion passed unanimously.
Chairman Davis stated that is unanimous, you have the approval to go ahead and make that modification.
2. Presentation of the Gainesville Independent Testing Service LLC by Mr. Bowermeister.
Chairman Davis stated our second item of new business is for a presentation Gainesville Independent Testing
Service LLC which has confused a number of people with the GITS, but now we can see exactly what that is and
we have a staff presentation followed by a Jay Bowermeister who is going to speak to us.
Officer Vargas Barrios informed the Board that in your packet you should have received a map also I have sent
Prometric which is the testing agency we use now scopes along with Gainesville Independent Testing Service
LLC scopes for the Board to review. She stated I do not know if you have it with you but I do have a couple of
copies to provide the Board if you do not have yours with you now. She stated this presentation is not just to
introduce Mr. Jay Bowermeister with Gainesville Independent Testing Service LLC and the services that are
provided but it is also to open a discussion for the Board and staff to determine if Gainesville Independent Testing
Service LLC could be added as an additional testing agency for the new applicant who are seeking to obtain a
certificate of competency in St. Lucie County. She stated we will need to discuss the examinations that are
provided and compare to the categories that St. Lucie County has established, in your packets you should have
received the scopes for Prometric who is the testing agency St. Lucie County uses now and the examination
information sheets from GITS for the Board to review. She stated we will also need to discuss the reciprocity
process, we need to make sure how many counties and cities accept GITS examination scores. She stated she
has done some research to find out which counties accept GITS and Prometric examinations either by accepting
applicants or accepting letters of reciprocity, pleas reference the map in your file, please also note this is not a
completed map as I am working on getting more feedback from the other counties and the cities. She stated I
have called each of the following and this is the response I have received for the surrounding counties: Martin ,
County uses GITS and Prometric, also accepts reciprocity from GITS and Prometric test scores, Indian River
County accepts reciprocity from GITS and Prometric for test scores but they do not sponsor for any exams, the
City of Ft. Pierce accepts reciprocity from GITS and Prometric for test scores but they do not sponsor for any
exams as well, the City of Port St. Lucie only uses Prometric, they do not accept reciprocity with GITS test scores,
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and Palm Beach County only uses gets but accepts reciprocity with Prometric test scores. She stated another
point of discussion is the language provided for the applicants to take the examination, Prometric only has the
examination in English, whereas GITS has the examination she believes in both Spanish and English. She states
as this is an introduction staff will await for any instructions from the Board of what other research might be
needed to bring back Board to be able to come to a decision and Mr. Bowermeister is here to address the Board.
Mrs. Graziani stated she would just like to add to Officer Vargas Barrios presentation that we would like the Board
today to take everything into consideration, there needs to be no decision at this point, we would like you to hear
the applicant's presentation and then we can come back at the next meeting and make a decision at that point.
Chairman Davis stated he would like to ask the Board if they have any questions of staff before we hear from the
representative from GITS.
Mr. Difrancesco asked Officer Vargas Barrios if he heard her right that the City of Port St. Lucie will not accept the
GITS scores.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated that is correct, she stated she spoke to each municipality and that was the response
from the City of Port St: Lucie:...
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff if they had a specific reason why they did not accept GITS scores
Officer Vargas Barrios stated she knows that GITS has been trying to get the City of Port St. Lucie to accept the
test scores, but she thinks it is a discrepancy with what the descriptions are, she is not sure, but they do not
accept the test scores.
Chairman Davis stated looking at this map that staff gave us gives a vision of where these are being used
presently, in the blue is where Prometric is accepted and GITS is not, we would be a blue than at this point
correct.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered correct, well we accept GITS test scores and have since before the time I have
been here we just do not sponsor our applicants using their test scores.
Chairman Davis stated so we do accept their scores and what we are looking at is allowing our applicants to have
a choice to take either or.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Difrancesco asked staff if we accept the GITS scores and give someone a license, they still cannot or can go
the City of Port St. Lucie.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered City of Port St. Lucie is not going the accept the GITS test scores right now, so
we would have to explain that to applicants when they come in that they have a choice of Prometric or GITS, but
also let them know that the City of Port St. Lucie does not accept GITS scores, for them to keep that in mind and
would give the option to the applicant.
Mr. Difrancesco stated yes because that would cause a lot of confusion and a lot of people getting fined.
Mr. Hudspeth asked what about the option of reciprocity, if we accept somebody scores and we license them, do
they not have a duly obligation to accept them with our reciprocity agreement.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated she talked to the City and that is up them.
Chairman Davis stated that is a good question and they would have to rassle that, they have made some decision
for whatever reason not to accept GITS scores.
Mr. Hudspeth stated we need to get further information on what the difference is between the two to understand
why.
Chairman Davis asked staff is just as anxious to hear the presentation or have they already done their research
and have any kind of position on this.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated staff would have Mr. Bowermeister make his presentation and it is up to the Board if
they want staff to go ahead and accept them.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any other questions of staff, there being none he asked Mr.
Bowermeister to approach the podium and be sworn in by the Board's recording secretary.
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Mr. Bowermeister was sworn in by the Board's recording secretary.
Mr. Bowermeister addressed the Board and stated we have been accepted and approved in St. Lucie County for
reciprocity since 2007, which is the last time he had the opportunity to do a presentation before this Board and at
that time the Board decided that our scores would be accepted for reciprocity but there was no need for us to be
accepted as a testing agency at that time to actually administer examinations. He stated since then obviously
things have changed, back in 2007 we had four other county clients in the State, our big one was Miami Dade and
Broward which has always been one of the pushing factors in the State particularly the southern part of the State
as to whose testing is accepted and whose are not. He stated he will try to clarify a little what has gone on with
the City of Port St. Lucie without going into too much detail because we are still talking with them and trying to
straighten things out. He stated they have accidently been accepting our scores but it was not known to them that
they were doing so because the way it was being presented to them by Hillsborough County which is where they
were accepting them from was with the name Block as the testing agency. He stated if you go to SunBiz.org and
look under block examination services you will see that that name is owned by Gainesville Testing Services so
David Kennedy who was the licensing clerk in Hillsborough County knew that so instead of turning in the name
Gainesville Testing Services which he had already been told was not accepted he just turned in scores of
reciprocity from his county under the name Block examination, that is how that happened in the City of Port St.
Lucie and I am sure that has not helped my relationship with them a great deal since I brough# #ha# #o the+r
attorney and told him this is how this has been happening and I did not do it. He stated he did not know about
this until after Mr. Kennedy had decided to retire and he sent an email out to two other counties that we were
process of doing presentations to and told them that the City of Port St. Lucie was indeed accepting our scores
which I did not know until about this time last year. He explained how his firm came into existence and their
history and some of the differences between his company and Prometric and stated they currently have exams
written in sixteen languages and can interpret them into one hundred and eighty two other languages through a
unique agreement we have with the International Association of Translators and Interpreters. He further
explained what his company offers and that one of the City of Port St. Lucie biggest contentions is that our tests
are not completely standardized.
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff if in regards to the two tests there are any specific negative aspects of having the two
different options of tests in St. Lucie County
Officer Vargas Barrios stated the only one was the reciprocity to the City of Port St. Lucie as it is one of our
surrounding cities and we want to make sure that we address that and keep it in consideration. She stated if the
City of Port St. Lucie does not accept them it is going to make a little difficult for the applicant, we also want to
make sure going through the testing that it meets our requirements for the categories, which is why I sent both of
the examinations to the Board and you have your books and can see the descriptions of the categories and we
just want to make sure it meets the requirements.
Mr. Mitchell asked if this is just a presentation or a voting item.
Chairman Davis answered this is just a presentation; we are going to digest it and bring it back up again at the
next meeting.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated this is just for the Board to give staff instructions on what they would like us to
research further; I did bring that map to give you an idea on Gainesville Testing Services.
Mr. Hudspeth asked what about the positive aspect is there a cost saving by using this particular group over the
other to the County or is this going to cause us more burdens by more paperwork on staff's end.
Officer Vargas Barrios no not really she believes the cost is similar to Prometric, she thinks it is like a $10.00
difference so that will not affect the applicant too much and stated she does not have anything negative.
Mr. Bowermeister stated Officer Vargas Barrios did an excellent idea by putting together the current Prometric's
bulletins of information and then our corresponding exam information sheet and you will notice some differences
particularly the very first one you come to Acoustical Ceiling. He stated you will see Prometric has fifty items on
their exam and we only have twenty five, however one of our twenty five items is as close to a virtual practical that
we can get, we give the person the dimension of a room, we tell them we want the grid work designed for that
room, we give them a piece of graph paper and tell them to describe all of the materials, equipment and supplies
they would need to install it and how they would install it. He stated that one item counts as twenty five items on
their scoring, so it looks like there is a twenty five item difference on the test, but there really is no difference on
the test, just a difference in the wording so please keep those things in mind when you are looking through the
comparisons.
Mr. Hudspeth stated I appreciate that information because a detailed essay question is a lot harder than an
optional multiple choice question.
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Chairman Davis stated a couple of questions I have is that it was commented that our existing Prometric's is in
English only and do we favor that because it causes our applicants to have to be able to think, write and do
business in the language of our country. He stated I do not even know if I should be asking a question like that
and asked Mr. Bowermeister if he thinks language might be an issue that keeps them out of certain jurisdictions.
Mr. Bowermeister answered we have never had that come up as an object to keep us out of jurisdictions because
we do have the multi-lingual capability and if someone does not want us to use a foreign language we simply do
not use it in that jurisdiction.
Chairman Davis stated that is part of your customization.
Mr. Bowermeister stated I can tell you as part of this that back in the day I was the director of content
development with Experian for all categories throughout the country there is a legal president to language barriers
in examinations in this country. He stated the problem is in some states an example is Florida legally has English
as their State language, however our Supreme Court stated three years after it passed that I might be our official
State language but the United States has no official language therefore we cannot enforce that as the official
language, so legally that is a very hands off subject, we are allowed to discuss it but are not allowed to enforce as
alegal-language.
Chairman Davis stated I am glad you qualified that we can discuss and I am not in trouble now
There was discussion among the Board, staff and Mr. Bowermeister on the differences in the between his
company and Prometric on categories, scopes, examination outlines, and testing locations.
Chairman Davis asked the Board if they had any further questions of staff or Mr. Bowermeister, there being none
he stated at this point we are going to take this home as homework.
Mr. Bowermeister thanked the Board for their time today.
Chairman Davis thanked Mr. Bowermeister for being present.
Officer Vargas Barrios informed the Board that they need her to email the comparisons of scopes for Prometric
and GITS again just let her know. She stated again we need to look into each of these scopes, compare them,
she stated you have the books, so I could either email you the PDF's or if you want to take the books with you
that is fine, just please bring them back, so we can look at the categories and compare what he is providing.
Chairman Davis stated we have a few Board members that need to go, is there any other business that we need
to conduct before the Board.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered in the negative.
Chairman Davis asked if there was any more business from the Board
Mr. Difrancesco stated he would like to talk about Coastal Flooring and asked Officer Vargas Barrios if this was
the second time they have gotten caught contracting without a license.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Difrancesco stated and you did tell me you were going to look into if anything can been done, they are selling
the jobs, doing cabinets in this woman's house, he actually went out and looked for himself because she is a
customer of his wife's and suggested that she call Officer Vargas Barrios. He stated they did cabinetry, they
pulled cabinets out, they put granite down and did over thirty thousand dollars of work in this woman's house and
it is the worst, it looks like a five year old did it. He stated that is one of the reasons I got on this Board because
when they asked me so I could stop stuff like that, this is the second time they have been caught and Officer
Vargas Barrios was going to look into it to see what could be done. He stated that he knew the City of Port St.
Lucie, a friend of his is on the Board and after three times they tote them right to jail right out of the Commission
chambers, so it is something she is going to look into and probably get with the next time we meet.
Chairman Davis asked staff the first citation is five hundred dollars and the second one goes to one thousand and
that what they just came in and paid.
Officer Vargas Barrios answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Davis asked staff and what happens the third time with the County.
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Mrs. Barbieri answered the one thousand is a repeat fine, it does not go up with each one, it is a repeat so it
would be a thousand dollars. She stated obviously these people who have this issues could pursue things civilly
in the court system and they can also refer them to the criminal justice system, staff does not have authority to do
any arrest or criminal that is reserved to the Sheriffs office.
Chairman Davis stated but the Licensing Board can revoke a license, but if they do not have one there is no draw
there, so the citation and the cost is the only way we are able to attack that. He stated Mr. Difrancesco is right
there is a lot of this going on right now and it is taking away from business owners that are doing it the right way.
He stated he is curious how much staff we have monitoring any of this because he is seeing things he is
questioning especially when I see a lot of job activity on a Saturday and Sunday and I am thinking I probably
should right this address down and call Officer Vargas Barrios on Monday and then I forget to do that and it is
happening more and more I am seeing a lot of it.
Mr. Difrancesco stated my flooring guy had to come in and take the tiling and flooring test that we have in St.
Lucie County, so even though he has a shop and he advertises, he can physically do the work also. He stated
but they are a big company down there and this is not the first time they have done this, they have an
Occupational License, is there something that can be done with that license or can the State be made aware of
what is going on because they are_confracting without alicense andtheyhireunlicensed_contractors fo do their
work.
Chairman Davis stated he thinks it is a good point that anytime we have a repeat offender that we need to find a
way to be a little harsher with our penalties.
Mr. Difrancesco agreed and stated with a forty thousand dollar job what is one thousand bucks to them guys.
Chairman Davis stated they even came in and paid it quickly and they are good now.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated that it took them three months to come in and they actually came yesterday and
paid it.
Mr. Mitchell asked if it is out of the premise of this Board as far as the fines and pursuing it further or is it under a
different Board.
Mr. Hudspeth stated maybe we can get some information from staff and legal.
Mrs. Barbieri stated they paid the maximum fine which is why staff removed it, they had requested a hearing, they
hired an attorney who prepared to go today and then they came in yesterday and paid the maximum fine.
Mr. Hudspeth asked under which Board's authority is it to increase the fine, for example a third offense, a forth
offense.
Mrs. Barbieri answered fine amounts is under this Board. She stated if you direct us it is something we can look
into what other jurisdictions are doing, if this is something this Board wants us to look into further.
Mr. Hudspeth asked Mrs. Barbieri if there was any way to have communication within our office and the criminal
system to follow up with these folks and see if there is anything we do.
Mrs. Barbieri answered we do refer to the Sheriffs office when we believe there is criminal activity.
Mr. Hudspeth asked staff if there is any legal law that is being broke by them doing that.
Mrs. Barbieri answered it would be the Sheriffs office determination to determine if there is any criminal activity it
would not be ours, so when we believe there is criminal activity we refer it to the Sheriffs office.
Chairman Davis stated he believes Mr. Bowermeister has a comment he would like to make on some of his
experience on this he would like to share.
Mr. Bowermeister stated because he does get the privilege of driving around to so many Board meetings, I get to
hear what many Boards are doing to address this issue, recently in Collier County because of the change in
Florida statute last year it allowed the increasing of fines. He stated they increased their first fine to one thousand
dollars and repeat fines are now two thousand dollars and they are giving people forty five days to become
licensed if they qualify for that, if they are not qualified or are not qualified in forty five days then they pay the
maximum fine, they have also started stacking fines, He stated it was mentioned that these people had done
cabinet work and counter work both of which are categories so they would have been written up for multiple
infractions instead ofjust a single infraction of contracting without a license and therefore the fine against them
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would have been stacked. He stated that may be something the Board and the attorney might want to look into
and contact Collier County and find out how they did that.
Chairman Davis stated he would say to staff that he shares Mr. Difrancesco concerns and actually about five or
six years ago I am the one that had us review our citation fines and doubled them at the time. He stated I got a
lot of flak for that but I do not think it is a bad idea to revisit our citation fines and I think many of the suggestions if
not all of the suggestions Mr. Bowermeister just made are good suggestions, every single one of them.
Mr. Hudspeth stated I concur.
Mrs. Graziani stated staff would be happy to do research on the issue, we will bring it back at the next meeting,
and I think we can definitely enhance our unlicensed contractors in that program. She stated we are in the
process of reevaluating internally in our operation as far as providing more staff to tackle the issue, staff attended
last week Bollen Brue with the Treasure Coast Builders Association and that is an issue they presented to staff
and they want us to step it up. She stated we do not have the staff, you are looking at her, and we are getting
ready to go into renewals which is a busy time of year, we are going to reassess some of her duties and work with
the building inspectors also and we are also telling the TCBA and contractors if you see something just give us a
call,_danot hesitate andwe wiA take care of it_ She statedsait is an issue.and.apparently_the_City-nf_Port_St_
Lucie is extremely aggressive, but they have a much greater staff ability to handle that issue and they make it a
high priority. She stated it is not that it is not a priority with us we just have our limitations and we work with what
we have, and we will bring it back to the Board as something for you to consider. -
Chairman Davis if you check the minutes of this meeting I think there were three excellent suggestions he had
and if you would have us consider all three.
Mrs. Graziani answered absolutely, the increase, the stacking, and getting the license within forty five days. She
stated with Coastal we still have an issue, they came in and paid the fine but we still do not have a qualifier and
we will explore that also with legal.
Chairman Davis stated we have not gotten any result we have just gotten cash, we would rather see them have a
license. He stated we have not done anything to put the cuffs on them to make them do it.
Mrs. Graziani stated absolutely. She stated I do not have the expertise as far as the handcuff portion of this, so
that is where I will refer to legal on that.
Mr. Hudspeth stated and a follow up question to legal, I do not know if we can do something with their State,
obviously they are licensed somewhere in the State and if we could refer or recommend to the State to review
their license if this continues of operating within different jurisdictions without a local license.
Chairman Davis stated I am not so sure they are State licensed.
Officer Vargas Barrios stated they are not, I checked the State with Coastal Floors, their name, the owner name, I
cannot find anything on the State that they have a State Certified license at all. She stated she knows they are
being investigated for other things, so something is going on.
Chairman Davis thanked Mr. Difrancesco for bringing that point up itwas awell-deserved discussion. He asked if
there was any other business before the Board this morning, hearing none the meeting was adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT:
There was no further business and the meeting was adjourned at 10:25 a.m.
The next Contractor Examining Board Hearing will be held on WEDNESDAY, March 19, 2014 AT 9:00 A.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Craig Dunkelberger, Board Secretary
Or
Doug Davis, Chairman
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